Jump to content


Photo

GameMaker Sandbox to close on 8th of April


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
129 replies to this topic

#101 Rusty

Rusty

    The Rustic One

  • GMC Member
  • 4048 posts
  • Version:GM:Studio

Posted 21 March 2016 - 10:50 PM

Two, that once he has ownership of something, he should, morally, be allowed to change and distribute it as he sees fit. Rusty and I are mostly addressing this point.

To be fair, I'm mostly just procrastinating. If I don't do any work, he can't steal it.

Win.
  • 1

tumblr_ngbm3tNUVy1thlk7do1_75sq.png

Professor Kayge says: "Play Project Jin! I'm sure it's been released by whatever year you're reading this in!"


#102 Lawsome

Lawsome

    Not Lukasmah

  • GMC Member
  • 271 posts
  • Version:GM8

Posted 21 March 2016 - 10:52 PM

Lawsome, Fais is arguing two separate things.
 
One, that he wants to host a new sandbox with author permissions.
 
Two, that once he has ownership of something, he should, morally, be allowed to change and distribute it as he sees fit. Rusty and I are mostly addressing this point.

 
Yep, exactly this.
 
I was just making it clear to Rusty that as far as I can tell Fais has no actual intention of breaking the law. This:
 

he's apparently allowing himself the right to become the sole authour of the entire Sandbox because it was provided for free

 
Is untrue.
 
E: (Or at the very least, a terrible misrepresentation of a completely okay, legal thing to do)

Edited by Lawsome, 21 March 2016 - 11:08 PM.

  • 2
ahahahha theyll never catch mee

#103 Rusty

Rusty

    The Rustic One

  • GMC Member
  • 4048 posts
  • Version:GM:Studio

Posted 21 March 2016 - 10:58 PM

he's apparently allowing himself the right to become the sole authour of the entire Sandbox because it was provided for free

 
Is untrue.
 
E: (Or at the very least, a terrible misrepresentation of a completely okay, legal thing to do)

He states and I quote, he is "able to claim authourship of anything that he has purchased", since the games on the sandbox are provided free of charge, this means by downloading them, he has purchased them and under this rule of Faissialoo, he is able to claim ownership of any or all of them.

Please Lawsome, defend this logic to me. I'm intrigued now.
  • 0

tumblr_ngbm3tNUVy1thlk7do1_75sq.png

Professor Kayge says: "Play Project Jin! I'm sure it's been released by whatever year you're reading this in!"


#104 Lawsome

Lawsome

    Not Lukasmah

  • GMC Member
  • 271 posts
  • Version:GM8

Posted 21 March 2016 - 11:08 PM

He states and I quote, he is "able to claim authourship of anything that he has purchased", since the games on the sandbox are provided free of charge, this means by downloading them, he has purchased them and under this rule of Faissialoo, he is able to claim ownership of any or all of them.

Please Lawsome, defend this logic to me. I'm intrigued now.

I'm not defending that comment.

I'm saying Fais's actual proposition. What he is actually suggesting we do. Is legal.

If you're going to get permission before distributing any software then you're basically making your own sandbox anyway (and it's totally legal and okay).

THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING


It's legal. That's all I'm trying to say. Do you agree that it is legal?
  • 3
ahahahha theyll never catch mee

#105 Rusty

Rusty

    The Rustic One

  • GMC Member
  • 4048 posts
  • Version:GM:Studio

Posted 21 March 2016 - 11:10 PM

It's legal. That's all I'm trying to say. Do you agree that it is legal?

His "compromise" is legal.

Read "compromise" very carefully there.
  • 0

tumblr_ngbm3tNUVy1thlk7do1_75sq.png

Professor Kayge says: "Play Project Jin! I'm sure it's been released by whatever year you're reading this in!"


#106 Lawsome

Lawsome

    Not Lukasmah

  • GMC Member
  • 271 posts
  • Version:GM8

Posted 21 March 2016 - 11:19 PM

It's legal. That's all I'm trying to say. Do you agree that it is legal?

His "compromise" is legal.

Read "compromise" very carefully there.

Don't get me wrong. his initial suggestion was stupid. But this one I think, is quite a good idea. And I've seen good ideas been destroyed by getting associated with crappy arguments.

@Mods: Would it be possible to create a "download now before they're gone" topic. Where we list very important/significant games from the sandbox that we should download now, before they're links are deleted. Making sure to only post links to sandbox pages within the topic? This wouldn't be illegal.

This way I figure, Fira gets some information on what to include in his personal archive. And those owners he doesn't manage to get permission off, well a lot of users will have had the opportunity to download their game before it becomes unavailable anyway.

Hopefully this would satisfy those that want an archive without breaking any laws.

Edited by Lawsome, 21 March 2016 - 11:19 PM.

  • 2
ahahahha theyll never catch mee

#107 Rusty

Rusty

    The Rustic One

  • GMC Member
  • 4048 posts
  • Version:GM:Studio

Posted 21 March 2016 - 11:40 PM

It's legal. That's all I'm trying to say. Do you agree that it is legal?

His "compromise" is legal.

Read "compromise" very carefully there.

Don't get me wrong. his initial suggestion was stupid. But this one I think, is quite a good idea. And I've seen good ideas been destroyed by getting associated with crappy arguments.

I'm allowed to be cautious when the future of these games lays in the hands of a person who doesn't see right from reason. I think I'd rather see them erased forever than see them misused in such a way. I'd never give permission for such a person to start distributing my content.

Would it be possible to create a "download now before they're gone" topic.

That's not a bad idea at all, it doesn't violate the T&C's of the Sandbox or the rules of the GMC to make a topic on the GMC recommending what to download from there. I'm not a mod but I fully approve.
  • 1

tumblr_ngbm3tNUVy1thlk7do1_75sq.png

Professor Kayge says: "Play Project Jin! I'm sure it's been released by whatever year you're reading this in!"


#108 Ninety

Ninety

    I just want to see if the mods will waive the character limit.

  • GMC Member
  • 846 posts
  • Version:Unknown

Posted 22 March 2016 - 12:52 AM

Yep. The things he's actually doing are fine. The things he wants to do are not.

That topic is a great idea.
  • 1

ka0eZdt.png
twitter | soundcloud | gmcomicified | ask.fm | homestead | itch.io | TIGsource

 

goodnight, sweet prince


#109 Andy

Andy

    GMC Veteran

  • GMC Member
  • 1988 posts
  • Version:GM:Studio

Posted 22 March 2016 - 03:05 AM

Even if backing up the Sandbox was somehow illegal, it would still be the right thing to do.


  • 1

Please visit my website, Andygames.com today!

 


#110 NakedPaulToast

NakedPaulToast

    GM Studio/Mac/Win

  • GMC Member
  • 8808 posts
  • Version:GM:Studio

Posted 22 March 2016 - 03:44 AM

Isn't it funny how some people's opinions have changed to be the complete polar opposite in this thread... Including myself funnily enough

 

 

My position hasn't changed one bit regarding softpedia.

 

You don't even understand the quote mining you're quoting from.

 

I suggest you read all of my posts in that topic, then if you need help interpreting my comments, ask, I'll be glad to explain them to you.


Edited by NakedPaulToast, 22 March 2016 - 03:45 AM.

  • 1

If the Bible truly is inspired by God, you would think that somebody as omnipotent and all-knowing would have known to get his message out using TCP instead of UDP.

 


#111 Strawbry_Jam

Strawbry_Jam

    Likes Toast

  • GMC Member
  • 345 posts
  • Version:Unknown

Posted 22 March 2016 - 05:03 AM

If you didn't want your crap downloaded, why did you upload it? Yoyogames terms say you can include your own terms and conditions. Did you include them? Yoyogames terms do NOT mention taking the right away to archive games. Therefore if didn't want your game archived, you should have added your own terms... Don't blame the end user for your ignorance. I don't think faissialoo plans to claim he made all those games.

Besides, if Yoyogames backed this stuff up and left it available, there wouldn't be a reason for someone to try to backup everything themselves.

Be infuriated all you want but it's your own fault if you give free access to your software and you don't define an EULA of your expectations.
  • 1
Spoiler

#112 Loaf

Loaf

    Just loafing around

  • GMC:Member
  • 2164 posts
  • Version:GM:Studio

Posted 22 March 2016 - 05:44 AM

If you didn't want your crap downloaded, why did you upload it? Yoyogames terms say you can include your own terms and conditions. Did you include them? Yoyogames terms do NOT mention taking the right away to archive games. Therefore if didn't want your game archived, you should have added your own terms... Don't blame the end user for your ignorance. 

 

What on earth are you talking about? Nobody needs to specifically state "you can not archive this from YoYo Games onto your own website". Short of having a crystal ball those sorts of specifics are impossible.

What is true is that distribution is not as simple as keeping the game to yourself, or releasing it to the world. There is a reason developers are strategic about what stores they sell to, what countries, what websites they make their games available on... just because it is distributed doesn't mean you can redistribute it. That is true for games, movies, pretty much any digital content. It has always been this way.

You do not have to choose between uploading it and losing the rights to it, and never uploading it at all. That is not how it works. It's a terrible argument.


:duck:


#113 Strawbry_Jam

Strawbry_Jam

    Likes Toast

  • GMC Member
  • 345 posts
  • Version:Unknown

Posted 22 March 2016 - 08:43 AM

If you didn't want your crap downloaded, why did you upload it? Yoyogames terms say you can include your own terms and conditions. Did you include them? Yoyogames terms do NOT mention taking the right away to archive games. Therefore if didn't want your game archived, you should have added your own terms... Don't blame the end user for your ignorance. 

 
What on earth are you talking about? Nobody needs to specifically state "you can not archive this from YoYo Games onto your own website". Short of having a crystal ball those sorts of specifics are impossible.

What is true is that distribution is not as simple as keeping the game to yourself, or releasing it to the world. There is a reason developers are strategic about what stores they sell to, what countries, what websites they make their games available on... just because it is distributed doesn't mean you can redistribute it. That is true for games, movies, pretty much any digital content. It has always been this way.

You do not have to choose between uploading it and losing the rights to it, and never uploading it at all. That is not how it works. It's a terrible argument.

Well, like most people, I guess you don't read the EULAs for software. They include what you can and can't do and state what the user is agreeing to by using the software. Why do you think people hire lawyers for this? To cover all the specifics... Legally, missing specifics gives loopholes. If you choose not to use your own EULA then you have no right to talk. You want control? You can state in you terms that a piece of software can only be distributed from yoyogames.com.

You are absolutely wrong. You give away copies of your game for free and then get mad because people use them how they want. Sorry you don't have a crystal ball or common sense...

There is a reason developers are strategic about what stores they sell to, what countries, what websites they make their games available on...

That is because they thought about it. Did you? Or did you just post your game without a second thought? Tell me your strategic plan. I'm all ears.

just because it is distributed doesn't mean you can redistribute it. That is true for games, movies, pretty much any digital content. It has always been this way.

Yeah and they also include EULAs that say whether you can or can't. It's always been this way...

You do not have to choose between uploading it and losing the rights to it, and never uploading it at all. That is not how it works. It's a terrible argument.

Thats exactly how it works. If the terms you agree to say if you want to upload this to my site, you lose all rights to it but it will be uploaded, and you agree, well what do you think happens? What about if you walk up to a hotdog stand and the guy hands you a free hotdog. Don't eat the hotdog because he didn't give you the right too! He owns that hotdog! Don't hand that to someone else, that's redistibution! Oh wait. It doesn't work that way. You can do as you please because he didn't give any conditions for that hotdog. If he said you can have this free if you don't give it to anyone else, well you can't give it away.

I'll read your response but I've given my 2 cents. You really should keep all of that in mind if you plan on protecting what's yours. :) Maybe you should make a suggestion for Yoyogames to change the terms to prevent archiving and stuff.
  • 0
Spoiler

#114 chance

chance

    GMC Member

  • Global Moderators
  • 8762 posts
  • Version:GM:Studio

Posted 22 March 2016 - 11:10 AM

This argument is downright silly.  The notion that someone can download free content and use it for whatever purpose they want is beyond absurd.

 

It's the newbie copyright (and ethical) question that kids ask in Game Design.  Who thought we'd be discussing that here?


  • 0

#115 Rusty

Rusty

    The Rustic One

  • GMC Member
  • 4048 posts
  • Version:GM:Studio

Posted 22 March 2016 - 12:34 PM

It's the newbie copyright (and ethical) question that kids ask in Game Design. Who thought we'd be discussing that here?

Agreed, I had certainly expected the devs here to have at least the basics of respect for their fellows.

I don't often hold grudges from topics, but such a lack of basic understanding of copyright has somewhat knocked my respect for a few of our own here.
  • 1

tumblr_ngbm3tNUVy1thlk7do1_75sq.png

Professor Kayge says: "Play Project Jin! I'm sure it's been released by whatever year you're reading this in!"


#116 hippyman

hippyman

    Dirty Stinky Hippy

  • GMC Member
  • 837 posts
  • Version:GM:Studio

Posted 22 March 2016 - 12:53 PM

I'm surprised this isn't locked yet. It was an announcement gone sour. Unfortunately there's some people in the community that have zero understanding on how intellectual property works and absolutely refuse to accept the real facts.

 

 

 

Even if backing up the Sandbox was somehow illegal, it would still be the right thing to do.

martinlutherking-speechsmallbw1.jpg


  • 3

 badge.png?dl=0

HM Audio Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/hm-audio


#117 chance

chance

    GMC Member

  • Global Moderators
  • 8762 posts
  • Version:GM:Studio

Posted 22 March 2016 - 01:30 PM

I don't often hold grudges from topics, but such a lack of basic understanding of copyright has somewhat knocked my respect for a few of our own here.



I wouldn't go that far.  As you said, it's a lack of understanding.   Not necessarily malicious or selfish intent.   More like misguided attempts to provide a service, or a favor to developers.

 

And honestly, I suspect many sandbox authors would happily give permission to someone who wanted to host their game.   So the key point here is "give permission".


  • 1

#118 Rusty

Rusty

    The Rustic One

  • GMC Member
  • 4048 posts
  • Version:GM:Studio

Posted 22 March 2016 - 03:28 PM

As you said, it's a lack of understanding. Not necessarily malicious or selfish intent.

With or without the misunderstanding, "don't steal credit for other peoples work" is pretty much basic human decency. A misunderstanding of the law is fair enough, I don't agree with Andy that backing up the Sandbox is the right thing to do but I respect him all the same. It's some of the other members here displaying far greater disregard for the authours of such content that have left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Well, it's either that or the five metric tonnes of McDonald's Mayo Chicken Burgers that I've just consumed.
  • 0

tumblr_ngbm3tNUVy1thlk7do1_75sq.png

Professor Kayge says: "Play Project Jin! I'm sure it's been released by whatever year you're reading this in!"


#119 Strawbry_Jam

Strawbry_Jam

    Likes Toast

  • GMC Member
  • 345 posts
  • Version:Unknown

Posted 22 March 2016 - 04:41 PM

This argument is downright silly.  The notion that someone can download free content and use it for whatever purpose they want is beyond absurd.
 
It's the newbie copyright (and ethical) question that kids ask in Game Design.  Who thought we'd be discussing that here?

There is a difference between ethically and legally. I don't agree necessarily that someone should do something like that, more just pointing out they can and they can get away with it.

It's not a coyright issue. Copyright wikipedia
  • 0
Spoiler

#120 Rusty

Rusty

    The Rustic One

  • GMC Member
  • 4048 posts
  • Version:GM:Studio

Posted 22 March 2016 - 04:51 PM

There is a difference between ethically and legally.

Ethical is the rule of the individual, legal is the rule of the many.

Sometimes I wish they would teach law in compulsory education, or at least write the laws in layman terms. "Unlawfully cause the death of the victim within the Queen's peace" is so much easier to read as "don't kill people you twat".
  • 1

tumblr_ngbm3tNUVy1thlk7do1_75sq.png

Professor Kayge says: "Play Project Jin! I'm sure it's been released by whatever year you're reading this in!"


#121 faissialoo

faissialoo

    I get high on orange

  • GMC Member
  • 1372 posts
  • Version:GM:Studio

Posted 22 March 2016 - 05:26 PM

Fais, the fact that you disagree with copyright law doesn't void it.

I know, but Rusty is for it and I'm telling him why he's wrong
 

And your example of rebranding Rusty's work is terrifying. Critics of copyright law usually don't recommend that you straight up steal stuff and pass it off as your own, which is exactly what your example is. There's a reason we have IP laws, it's to protect people.

I didn't recommend or condone it, it's still wrong to pass off someone else's work as your own, but unless you're selling it (in which case you would be lying about the product you're selling) I don't think the law should get involved, by all means put social pressure on rail against anyone who claims that your work is theirs.
 

EDIT: Have you actually ever had your work stolen, and passed off as someone else's? I have. Multiple times. I'm not going to name names but people on this forum have taken my art and passed it off as their own before, and I had some former friends plagiarise huge sections of multiple assignments from me. Mine were small cases but it's not fun and I'm glad the law protects me from it. Whether or not you support copyright law, you can still support basic decency to creators.

Anything decent that I've ever made is under the creative commons, the GPL or the MIT licence, so it can't really be 'stolen' and I actively encourage people to distribute my work as they wish. As far as I know, no one has passed off any of my work as their own, and the only I would actually try to protect my copyright on that product would be to stop them from imposing abusive constructs like DRM. Plagarism in the academic space is something entirely different, it's effectively a form of cheating, and that has happened to me before, I'm not in university or anything so I'm not really making anything interesting, however in general, sure it sucks but it's not that big of a deal tbh, as long as people are seeing the work I'm happy, I don't care who gets credit for it.
I completely support common decency to creators, and I do get angry when I see people not crediting the original creators of a work, but not everything needs a law.
 

Sorry kid but this isn't how life works. You purchase a copy, a clone, the glory still remains in the hands of the authour. You can't claim credit for things you didn't do simply because you purchased them. I've met many pirates during my time on the internet, some of them proud and some of them arrogant but never have I met one so darn immature.

He states and I quote, he is "able to claim authourship of anything that he has purchased", since the games on the sandbox are provided free of charge, this means by downloading them, he has purchased them and under this rule of Faissialoo, he is able to claim ownership of any or all of them.

(btw that's not a quote that's paraphrasing)
I do realise that I seem to have contradicted myself between this post and my last by saying that I believe that reselling something as your own should be illegal, however that doesn't require copyright, since you're lying about the contents of your product, this is now my changed view after much consideration)
 

Neither do you. The law represents a much larger population than a single person. A single person may decide it is okay to kill, rape, loot or murder, but this doesn't matter. As a whole, we know these things are essentially wrong, so regardless of what loose moral high ground you want to pit yourself on, your personal opinion does not effect the morality of your actions. Morality is seen as just and unjust, you simply need to look at the reactions you provoke to see which side you're on and kid, these aren't going well for you, are they?

You are treating morality as if it is objective, it is not. I am arguing my case for my stance on this particular area of morality. Just because alot of people believe something to be moral doesn't make it so.
 

When the law and general respect for others is considered a "compromise" because there is a threat of legal action there is clearly something fundamentally wrong with the situation.

General respect for others goes both ways, if you are a developer you should learn to respect your users rather than threatening them with legal action if they have the audacity to share an experience with their friend that you would not even have earned money from anyways.
 

Regardless of his plans for the YYG Sandbox, he's apparently allowing himself the right to become the sole authour of the entire Sandbox because it was provided for free, so it's his property now. I know you like to interfere Lawsome but there really is no defence here.

I did not once say that I was going to claim to have created everything on the Sandbox, I want to back it up because I want to save it from destruction so others can see what happened during my childhood, not to get some sort of ego boost.
 

To be fair, I'm mostly just procrastinating. If I don't do any work, he can't steal it.

Win.

Phew, thank God you have no users to abuse.
 

@Mods: Would it be possible to create a "download now before they're gone" topic. Where we list very important/significant games from the sandbox that we should download now, before they're links are deleted. Making sure to only post links to sandbox pages within the topic? This wouldn't be illegal.

This way I figure, Fira gets some information on what to include in his personal archive. And those owners he doesn't manage to get permission off, well a lot of users will have had the opportunity to download their game before it becomes unavailable anyway.

Hopefully this would satisfy those that want an archive without breaking any laws.

I think it would be a better idea if people were to archive everything they wanted themselves, inform me of what they have, so I can then ask permission on behalf of the person who has archived it to place it on the old-new sandbox, that way we would be able to archive far more content.
 

I'm allowed to be cautious when the future of these games lays in the hands of a person who doesn't see right from reason. I think I'd rather see them erased forever than see them misused in such a way. I'd never give permission for such a person to start distributing my content.

If I were to distribute the stuff without permission, it wouldn't make a difference what I say, it would still be well within my ability to do so, however, though I might disagree with copyright law I am most certainly not a liar. I really don't care if you don't want to give me permission, because when someone's so hell bent on the restriction of user autonomy there's no telling what they'll do next.

Edited by faissialoo, 22 March 2016 - 05:27 PM.

  • 1

cooltext680386545.png
The YYGF subreddit: /r/YYGF


#122 jimthegreat1012

jimthegreat1012

    GMC Member

  • GMC Member
  • 36 posts

Posted 22 March 2016 - 05:41 PM

@NPT:

Insignificant legal hurdles call for insignificant legal solutions. Make faissialoo a YoYo games "employee" - Minister of the Archives. Boom. YoYoGames is still the one hosting. If that's too onerous, let someone else pay for the hosting costs of the sandbox, and just keep things running as normal. Of course YoYoGames can't publicly risk even something as harmless as jaywalking as a company. That doesn't mean there aren't incredibly simple solutions to this problem, though. The sandbox is disappearing because YoYoGames wants it to disappear, not because it's too hard or expensive to archive.
 
@faissaloo: If you actually archive the entire sandbox, please let me know via PM. I won't actually accept a download link from you, because I wouldn't want to be a disgusting freedom-hating pirate desecrating the [free] [abandonware] games on the sandbox by downloading them from a second party, but maybe we can chat or something. :)

Edited by jimthegreat1012, 22 March 2016 - 05:54 PM.

  • 3

#123 Snail_Man

Snail_Man

    Level Builder

  • GMC Member
  • 1876 posts
  • Version:GM:Studio

Posted 22 March 2016 - 05:51 PM

For the record, I don't approve of redistributing content in any illegal way, and I've already backed up (for personal usage only) the 20 or so sandbox games I actually want to keep, I just found the mirror image discussion interesting
  • 1

Farewell, old GMC.
Although you stole my posts, I shall remember thee always.

Soundcloud : Wizard Battle


#124 jimthegreat1012

jimthegreat1012

    GMC Member

  • GMC Member
  • 36 posts

Posted 22 March 2016 - 05:59 PM

Things are made illegal to protect people from immoral actions. I don't think there's anything immoral about changing the domain name the sandbox currently resides at. :)

...I also don't support illegal archives though, of course. They're illegal! O:


  • 1

#125 Rusty

Rusty

    The Rustic One

  • GMC Member
  • 4048 posts
  • Version:GM:Studio

Posted 22 March 2016 - 06:09 PM

Things are made illegal to protect people from immoral actions.

The law has nothing to do with morality. It is the rules to keep a functioning society.

If the law was based on morality the catholics would still be performing witch hunts on the LGBT population.
  • 3

tumblr_ngbm3tNUVy1thlk7do1_75sq.png

Professor Kayge says: "Play Project Jin! I'm sure it's been released by whatever year you're reading this in!"


#126 jimthegreat1012

jimthegreat1012

    GMC Member

  • GMC Member
  • 36 posts

Posted 22 March 2016 - 06:17 PM

The law has nothing to do with morality. It is the rules to keep a functioning society.

No, the laws have everything to do with morality. They exist to enforce the popular morals of the society they serve.

 

 

If the law was based on morality the catholics would still be performing witch hunts on the LGBT population.

Wow, cool. Your argument in this thread is "we have to follow the law because it's the law," and now you bring up witch hunts on gays. So, by your own logic, if you were in the right time or location, you'd be championing the killing of gays, Jews, Catholics, blacks, and "witches." You'd be for slavery. You'd be for genoicide. Great to know!

 

"The law is the law!" is a horrible argument, every single time. Laws exist to make sure bad things don't happen to good people. That's all. Sometimes laws are written badly, and actually do harm to good people. Sometimes laws are just bad in general, because the people who wrote them were stupid or badly informed.


Edited by jimthegreat1012, 22 March 2016 - 06:19 PM.

  • 2

#127 Rusty

Rusty

    The Rustic One

  • GMC Member
  • 4048 posts
  • Version:GM:Studio

Posted 22 March 2016 - 06:34 PM

If the law was based on morality the catholics would still be performing witch hunts on the LGBT population.

Wow, cool. Your argument in this thread is "we have to follow the law because it's the law," and now you bring up witch hunts on gays. So, by your own logic, if you were in the right time or location, you'd be championing the killing of gays, Jews, Catholics, blacks, and "witches." You'd be for slavery. You'd be for genoicide. Great to know!
 
"The law is the law!" is a horrible argument, every single time. Laws exist to make sure bad things don't happen to good people. That's all. Sometimes laws are written badly, and actually do harm to good people. Sometimes laws are just bad in general, because the people who wrote them were stupid or badly informed.

My point was that when we separated religion from state, we separated our moral guidance with our legal guidance.

The LGBT community has blossomed because the law respects the rights of the individual, not the moral obligations of society. If our legal system was still being run by our moral compass, the homosexual would never have been able to break free under the rule of a church that has been so eager to condemn them in recent years.

The law protects us, it does not tell us what is right.
  • 1

tumblr_ngbm3tNUVy1thlk7do1_75sq.png

Professor Kayge says: "Play Project Jin! I'm sure it's been released by whatever year you're reading this in!"


#128 faissialoo

faissialoo

    I get high on orange

  • GMC Member
  • 1372 posts
  • Version:GM:Studio

Posted 22 March 2016 - 07:24 PM

@NPT:
Insignificant legal hurdles call for insignificant legal solutions. Make faissialoo a YoYo games "employee" - Minister of the Archives. Boom. YoYoGames is still the one hosting. If that's too onerous, let someone else pay for the hosting costs of the sandbox, and just keep things running as normal. Of course YoYoGames can't publicly risk even something as harmless as jaywalking as a company. That doesn't mean there aren't incredibly simple solutions to this problem, though. The sandbox is disappearing because YoYoGames wants it to disappear, not because it's too hard or expensive to archive.

 
I won't be able to be legally employed by YoyoGames until August 25th of this year, at which point I'll be given my national insurance number which is required to be employed at any firm, whether physically present or not. I highly doubt YoyoGames will be able to keep the sandbox up for another 5 months, so it is more fitting that someone else be put in charge of this if anyone is to be employed by YoyoGames in that manner.
 

@faissaloo: If you actually archive the entire sandbox, please let me know via PM. I won't actually accept a download link from you, because I wouldn't want to be a disgusting freedom-hating pirate desecrating the [free] [abandonware] games on the sandbox by downloading them from a second party, but maybe we can chat or something. :)

I won't be sending you anything, sorry dude, but I have to keep my word. I'd be happy to talk to you about contributing to this later though, since I'll be putting it (the backend and everything I've got permission for) on GitHub

On a related note:
- I am so glad that so many people have explicitly said "you can do anything" or something along the lines in the 'about' section under their games, makes my life a whole lot easier (and just a note: I will make an effort to copy and paste their exact words verbatim as verification that I do in fact have permission)
- I will have to figure out how to deal with implied permission, and whether I am or am not able to distribute that software. I might contact Mike about this later or something.
- I have decided that, since alot of the best games on there (like orange's sleepshooter) are hosted elsewhere now I will simply link to where they are newly hosted
- I will try to work on the backend of the site after the YoyoGames takes down the archive, I will do this in either Python (because I'm familiar with it) or (maybe) NodeJS

Also, I have already got 107 games downloaded. If you want your games archived, please archive them yourself (and if possible the page to prove that it was on the Sandbox) and then contact me via PM after the Sandbox goes down.
Edit 20:13 22/03 : Now on 171, that's pages 1-5 of featured as well as about 20-25 gems that came to mind. That'll be all for today, the following is a list of everything archived at the time of writing this message
Spoiler

Edited by faissialoo, 22 March 2016 - 08:11 PM.

  • 1

cooltext680386545.png
The YYGF subreddit: /r/YYGF


#129 Yal

Yal

    Even though the GMC may be gone, our love will prevail eternally

  • Global Moderators
  • 11774 posts
  • Version:GM:Studio

Posted 22 March 2016 - 09:34 PM

Feel free to do anything you want with my games (except claim you made them), 90% of them won't even run on Windows 10. :P


  • 3

- The above is my personal opinion and in no way representative of Yoyogames or the GMC, except when explicitly stated -

 

Open this spoiler for my games:

Spoiler

Some useful game engines, music and other resources at affordable prices:

My collection of game resources at itch.io

 

New user? Can't draw but want to look unique? You can request a new avatar in this thread!


#130 Mike.Dailly

Mike.Dailly

    Evil YoYo Games Employee

  • Administrators
  • 5277 posts
  • Version:GM:Studio

Posted 22 March 2016 - 10:05 PM

This is stupid.

 

You can not re-host content from the sandbox without the original authors permission.

 

Free content is not a license to distribute it. Free content isn't public domain, it's still under copyright.

 

In order to make your own sandbox, you have to follow the same methods, and have authors upload their own content. If you upload it, you become liable for any illegal content on there - including copyright violations like audio, graphics - even text.

By all means create your own game download site, but you can't just fill it yourself.

 

If anyone hosts content from the sandbox, they will be told to remove it.

 

There is no such thing as abandonware. All digital content is still under copyright - all of it.

 

 

No one here is a lawyer, so quit trying to make up your own magic rules on content. This discussion is closed.


  • 8