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GameMaker Sandbox to close on 8th of April


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#51 Honno

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 05:26 PM

Mike has a back up all is not lost eh eh ;)


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#52 roytheshort

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 05:50 PM

Mike has a back up all is not lost eh eh ;)

 

Your digital hoarding problem is so bad your avatar has bags under its eyes.


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#53 faissialoo

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 08:20 PM

The utter disregard that people show towards the thousands, if not millions, of hours of work that people have put into their games is distressing. These games meant something to people. They're as much a part of 21st Century youth culture as punk was in the 70s. If they're not protected - and I'd like to remind you that there is a specific organisation that deals with this - then that's a part of history that is literally being deleted. We don't get to dictate what is and isn't important to the historians of the future nor should we. All we have to do is store what we have.

I totally agree, I would have created a bot to download all the files if they didn't put that blasted CAPTCHA. Maybe I'll try and get a bunch of good ones, make a torrent and put them on IPFS or something?


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#54 NakedPaulToast

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 08:23 PM

 

The utter disregard that people show towards the thousands, if not millions, of hours of work that people have put into their games is distressing. These games meant something to people. They're as much a part of 21st Century youth culture as punk was in the 70s. If they're not protected - and I'd like to remind you that there is a specific organisation that deals with this - then that's a part of history that is literally being deleted. We don't get to dictate what is and isn't important to the historians of the future nor should we. All we have to do is store what we have.

I totally agree, I would have created a bot to download all the files if they didn't put that blasted CAPTCHA. Maybe I'll try and get a bunch of good ones, make a torrent and put them on IPFS or something?

 

 

 

The utter disregard that people show towards other people's intellectual property.


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#55 faissialoo

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 08:32 PM

 

 

The utter disregard that people show towards the thousands, if not millions, of hours of work that people have put into their games is distressing. These games meant something to people. They're as much a part of 21st Century youth culture as punk was in the 70s. If they're not protected - and I'd like to remind you that there is a specific organisation that deals with this - then that's a part of history that is literally being deleted. We don't get to dictate what is and isn't important to the historians of the future nor should we. All we have to do is store what we have.

I totally agree, I would have created a bot to download all the files if they didn't put that blasted CAPTCHA. Maybe I'll try and get a bunch of good ones, make a torrent and put them on IPFS or something?

 

 

 

The utter disregard that people show towards other people's intellectual property.

 

I know right, so disappointing that Yoyo is deciding to destroy so much intellectual property without asking.

 

Seriously though, it's basically all abandonware, and abandonware deserves to be saved.


Edited by faissialoo, 20 March 2016 - 08:38 PM.

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#56 Lawsome

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 08:44 PM

It's against the law to make a backup due to copyright.

 

I argued over this with NPT before, frankly if you made a backup of the Sandbox I doubt anyone would care. But NPT was right - it doesn't matter because it's illegal so you can't do it. That's pretty much the end of it.


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#57 Ninety

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 09:46 PM

Oh boy, don't get Fais started on copyright law.

 

Also, I know you guys have really cozy memories of the sandbox, but 99% of the stuff on there is utter crap. Save the ones you have memories of... Burn the Click the Clown tutorial edits to the ground :)

 

EDIT: Of course it'd be nice if all the downloads were left up forever, but it's not very feasible.


Edited by Ninety, 20 March 2016 - 09:47 PM.

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#58 jimthegreat1012

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 10:16 PM


Last time I checked....(a good while back)... it was about 800GB for the back up.

Almost a whole TERABYTE!?!? No wonder you guys are pulling the plug! What's that cost you to host, like a whole fifty dollars a month?! O:

/sarcasm.

 

Sad to see the sandbox go. It holds what makes GM the best.

 

For everyone crying "it would break copyright law if TheWayBackMachine archived it!!!" - really? TheWayBackMachine archives half the internet. Archiving the sandbox would be about as illegal as jaywalking. Come on. Like the ToS for the sandbox didn't have a "we might move your stuff to another server" clause, anyway?


Edited by jimthegreat1012, 20 March 2016 - 10:20 PM.

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#59 NakedPaulToast

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 11:07 PM

 

For everyone crying "it would break copyright law if TheWayBackMachine archived it!!!" - really? TheWayBackMachine archives half the internet. 

 

The waybackmachine operates under a doctrine known as The Oakland Archive Policy, essentially a fair use exemption. They do so because:

  • Their intent is to archive portions of the Internet for research and historians
  • They respect robots.txt, thereby allowing sites to opt out.
  • They respect individual copyright owners to remove their content
  • They adhere to DMCA copyright takedown requests
Archiving the sandbox would be about as illegal as jaywalking. Come on.

 

 

Nobody is saying that the consequences would be significant. The point about it being illegal is important because it virtually guarentees that YYGs will not and can not give people permission to copy it and re-publish it.
 
 
 Like the ToS for the sandbox didn't have a "we might move your stuff to another server" clause, anyway?

 

 

The YYGs TOS had a clause allowing them to publish uploaded contend worldwide and forever. It did not allow them to transfer those rights to anyone else. Therefore they can't. There TOS specifically stated they would not sell or provide your content to anyone else.

 

http://sandbox.yoyogames.com/terms

 

* you grant to YoYo Games the non-exclusive, irrevocable, worldwide, perpetual, royalty free right and licence to use your Content, including Games  on and in connection with yoyogames.com and to give all consents (if any) which YoYo Games requires including under copyright and other intellectual property, data protection and privacy laws world wide, for that use only; WHAT this meanS IS that we will NOT sell your Game OR ANY EXTENSIONS (OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU UPLOAD) or use THEM separately from yoyogames.com WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION.  WHAT IT DOES  mean IS that we can use WHAT YOU UPLOAD WITHIN THE web site and make it available to users of the web site 

 


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#60 Rusty

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 11:23 PM

I know right, so disappointing that Yoyo is deciding to destroy so much intellectual property without asking.

YoYoGames is getting rid of the Sandbox, they're not launching a seek and destroy mission to remove all the games from existence ever.

If the authour doesn't care to save them, that's on them, not YYG.
 

Seriously though, it's basically all abandonware, and abandonware deserves to be saved.

Yes, because abandonware is of such great value that nobody would ever abandon it.

Edit:
I spell like a five year old.

Edited by Rusty, 20 March 2016 - 11:25 PM.

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#61 Mr. RPG

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 12:10 AM

(snip)


Oops. Sorry NPT, I meant to upvote your post. I agree with you.

I don't see the value of keeping the sandbox around anymore.

It's time to let it go guys.
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#62 Mike.Dailly

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 12:37 AM

1) There is no such thing as abandonware. Copyright lasts 70 years past the authors death (in the UK, 100 years in the US). You have no right to distribute these games yourself. You can download them, keep them, and play them, you can not distribute them.

 

2) Anyone setting up a site to do this, will be told to remove it. 

 

 

By all means, download the games you like. But respect others copyright.


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#63 Loaf

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 05:15 AM

 

The utter disregard that people show towards the thousands, if not millions, of hours of work that people have put into their games is distressing. These games meant something to people. They're as much a part of 21st Century youth culture as punk was in the 70s. If they're not protected - and I'd like to remind you that there is a specific organisation that deals with this - then that's a part of history that is literally being deleted. We don't get to dictate what is and isn't important to the historians of the future nor should we. All we have to do is store what we have.

I totally agree, I would have created a bot to download all the files if they didn't put that blasted CAPTCHA. Maybe I'll try and get a bunch of good ones, make a torrent and put them on IPFS or something?

 

As far as I remember I removed the games I put on the YoYo site, but it infuriates me that there are people here who would abuse my work without my consent.

Re-uploading other peoples work and distributing it in a way they did not intend, without consulting them, is a huge insult to the game developer.

Somewhere along the line, some of you people have decided reuploading the work is justified, because archiving it is the best thing to do and it is what the game developers wanted... wait, why do you think that? You can't speak for everyone, you don't speak for me and my work, and you have no right to take other peoples games and redistribute them.

Stop ignoring this. This topic isn't the first time people have had to be cut down because they get all dizzy about the "cultural importance" of a website mostly filled with poorly edited demo examples and vaporware. 

These people are not in a superior position just because they have self appointed themselves as the savior of YoYo sandbox history.  It's going from a genuine concern about peoples work, to a display of ignorance and self-indulgence about who can become the hero to save these games. Stop telling the people who made the games that we all want them distributed and archived. I know for a fact there are people who do not want their games archived, but if they did, they wouldn't want them handled by some random people on a forum.

Sorry to be so harsh, I don't direct this message at anyone specifically (just quoting because it's the message that tipped me over) but I'm really irritated by some of the nonsense that has been posted. Mike.Dailly shouldn't have to come in and tell everyone to stop being hysterical about bunch of 8 year old crapware being deleted. Get a grip, most of the sandbox was garbage.


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#64 Ninety

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 05:45 AM

There is value in the Sandbox. We will probably lose some old classics forever. But was anyone here ​really browsing the Sandbox regularly? I know I haven't been there in years, except to follow the occasional link someone posted here to point out something funny. Honestly, it'd be nice to have it around, but YoYo can't (and won't) host it forever. At some stage, we have to say goodbye, and it's not surprising that they'd like to distance themselves from it as they slowly enter a new chapter in GM's life.

 

To the people outraged that "a chapter in history is being lost"... chill. Most of the actual good games have backups or alternate hosts elsewhere. The others are easily backed up by whoever wants to hang onto them.

 

And to those treating the backup advocates like they're would-be Charles Mansons... chill. Also.

 

And before someone brings it up: yes, I was strongly in favour of the GMC archive. That's an entirely different issue and should be left out of this (Loaf  :thumbsup: )


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#65 Loaf

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 06:35 AM

That's an entirely different issue and should be left out of this (Loaf  :thumbsup: )

 

What? 


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#66 Honno

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 09:59 AM

Does reCaptcha get harder once it detects you're solving a lot of captchas? I have to deal with this crap now.


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#67 Rusty

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 11:47 AM

Does reCaptcha get harder once it detects you're solving a lot of captchas? I have to deal with this crap now.

reCaptchas completely understand how ineffective they are at stopping bots, so they try to block humans instead. If you can't beat them, join the revolution.
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#68 Ninety

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 11:59 AM

What?


Well, I assumed this:

This topic isn't the first time people have had to be cut down because they get all dizzy about the "cultural importance" of a website mostly filled with poorly edited demo examples and vaporware.


was referring to the calls for an archive of the GMC back in January when we were talking about a switch. I may have misinterpreted you.
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#69 faissialoo

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 01:02 PM

As far as I remember I removed the games I put on the YoYo site, but it infuriates me that there are people here who would abuse my work without my consent.

Using your work for it's intended purpose and allowing others to continue to do so is not 'abuse'.
 

Re-uploading other peoples work and distributing it in a way they did not intend, without consulting them, is a huge insult to the game developer.

So getting more people to play someone's game is now insulting is it?

Somewhere along the line, some of you people have decided reuploading the work is justified, because archiving it is the best thing to do and it is what the game developers wanted... wait, why do you think that? You can't speak for everyone, you don't speak for me and my work, and you have no right to take other peoples games and redistribute them.

As far as I'm concerned if someone creates a piece of software and doesn't make any money from that specific distribution method (whether it be ads or payment), I see no logical reason why I shouldn't share their work with others as long as I never claim it to be my own.

Stop ignoring this. This topic isn't the first time people have had to be cut down because they get all dizzy about the "cultural importance" of a website mostly filled with poorly edited demo examples and vaporware.

The sandbox was my childhood, this is the equivalent of burning down the home I grew up in just because I don't live there. The quality of the games on there is irrelevant to me, it has very little impact on how much sentimental value they hold.

These people are not in a superior position just because they have self appointed themselves as the savior of YoYo sandbox history. It's going from a genuine concern about peoples work, to a display of ignorance and self-indulgence about who can become the hero to save these games. Stop telling the people who made the games that we all want them distributed and archived. I know for a fact there are people who do not want their games archived, but if they did, they wouldn't want them handled by some random people on a forum.

I don't believe myself to be in a superior position to anyone, I just think 'intelectual property' is by and large a load of horse crap and no one

Sorry to be so harsh, I don't direct this message at anyone specifically (just quoting because it's the message that tipped me over) but I'm really irritated by some of the nonsense that has been posted. Mike.Dailly shouldn't have to come in and tell everyone to stop being hysterical about bunch of 8 year old crapware being deleted. Get a grip, most of the sandbox was garbage.

I don't care if you think the sandbox was garbage, I enjoyed it.
 

I know right, so disappointing that Yoyo is deciding to destroy so much intellectual property without asking.

YoYoGames is getting rid of the Sandbox, they're not launching a seek and destroy mission to remove all the games from existence ever.

If the authour doesn't care to save them, that's on them, not YYG.

Some of the authors aren't even active.

Seriously though, it's basically all abandonware, and abandonware deserves to be saved.

Yes, because abandonware is of such great value that nobody would ever abandon it.

Value is subjective, I attribute lots of value to those games, the author might not.


 

1) There is no such thing as abandonware. Copyright lasts 70 years past the authors death (in the UK, 100 years in the US). You have no right to distribute these games yourself. You can download them, keep them, and play them, you can not distribute them.
 
2) Anyone setting up a site to do this, will be told to remove it. 
 
 
By all means, download the games you like. But respect others copyright.

If I archive as much as I can, go through and track down every author and ask them to give me the rights to distribute their software (distributing the software in a similar way to the pirate bay, I'll basically setup a bunch of torrents for each thing that I'm going to put up), will that be ok?
I'm ordering a 1TB hard drive today.

Edited by faissialoo, 21 March 2016 - 01:43 PM.

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#70 Rusty

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 01:31 PM

(sort of like the pirate bay...)... will that be ok?

You know when you say "pirate" you basically lose any legal credibility, you know? Not that you had much to begin with.

I'm ordering a 1TB hard drive today.

If only some respect for the copyright laws was so easy to purchase.

If you want to set up a Sandbox then set up a Sandbox and encourage game developers to post games to it, don't steal from the authours on the YYG Sandbox.
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#71 faissialoo

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 01:43 PM

(sort of like the pirate bay...)... will that be ok?

You know when you say "pirate" you basically lose any legal credibility, you know? Not that you had much to begin with.

Great job not reading what I said at all, by 'pirate bay' I was referring to the fact that nothing is actually hosted on the servers but rather by torrent links, you completely skipped what I said about tracking down the creators of the software to get their permission

I'm ordering a 1TB hard drive today.

If only some respect for the copyright laws was so easy to purchase.

Copyright law is some of the most ridiculous stuff in the modern age.

If you want to set up a Sandbox then set up a Sandbox and encourage game developers to post games to it, don't steal from the authours on the YYG Sandbox.

You don't seem to understand, I don't want *a* sandbox, I want *the* sandbox that I grew up with.
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#72 Rusty

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 01:48 PM

You know when you say "pirate" you basically lose any legal credibility, you know? Not that you had much to begin with.

Great job not reading what I said at all, by 'pirate bay' I was referring to the fact that nothing is actually hosted on the servers but rather by torrent links, you completely skipped what I said about tracking down the creators of the software to get their permission

And how exactly is that better?

Copyright law is some of the most ridiculous stuff in the modern age.

And yet it stops people like you from stealing my content so I'm strangely okay with it.

You don't seem to understand, I don't want *a* sandbox, I want *the* sandbox that I grew up with.

You don't understand that it's not *your* choice what YYG does with company assets.
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#73 faissialoo

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 02:16 PM

You know when you say "pirate" you basically lose any legal credibility, you know? Not that you had much to begin with.

Great job not reading what I said at all, by 'pirate bay' I was referring to the fact that nothing is actually hosted on the servers but rather by torrent links, you completely skipped what I said about tracking down the creators of the software to get their permission

And how exactly is that better?

You lot were concerned with the copyright bullcrap, so I fixed it. It's yours to justify what issue you could possibly have now.

Copyright law is some of the most ridiculous stuff in the modern age.

And yet it stops people like you from stealing my content so I'm strangely okay with it.

You mean it gives you the ability to restrict your users?
 

You don't seem to understand, I don't want *a* sandbox, I want *the* sandbox that I grew up with.

You don't understand that it's not *your* choice what YYG does with company assets.

You don't seem to understand that I'm not asking YYG to do anything

Edited by faissialoo, 21 March 2016 - 02:17 PM.

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#74 Rusty

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 02:23 PM

You lot were concerned with the copyright bullcrap, so I fixed it. It's yours to justify what issue you could possibly have now.

You're not fixing anything, distribution is still illegal. Pirates use torrents because it's harder to track, not because it's somehow legal.

Copyright law is some of the most ridiculous stuff in the modern age.

And yet it stops people like you from stealing my content so I'm strangely okay with it.

You mean it gives you the ability to restrict your users?

From stealing and distributing my content without my consent, yes.

I put in the time to make it, I get to decide who I want to give permission to distribute it to.

You don't seem to understand, I don't want *a* sandbox, I want *the* sandbox that I grew up with.

You don't understand that it's not *your* choice what YYG does with company assets.

You don't seem to understand that I'm not asking YYG to do anything

No, you're just planning to steal a company asset (the YYG Sandbox Database) and start distributing it. Nowhere in the terms and conditions of the Sandbox that the authours agreed to did it state that their content would be distributed by YYG (and maybe faissialoo from the GMC in the future). YYG had a claus in their terms and conditions that made it impossible for them to transfer their hosted content to anybody else, so in absolutely no way do you have any right to take the content from the Sandbox and distribute it yourself. This is piracy and not the "noble" kind.
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#75 hippyman

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 02:25 PM

I'll be honest. I have ZERO attachment to the sandbox. I came in and it was pretty much already dead. Good riddance in my opinion. Like the reasonable people are stating, download the stuff that you want to play (for whatever reason) and then get over it. Purging is a great thing!


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#76 Juju

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 02:48 PM

archive.org have backed up the site after I made a request (and a few other people did as well). If people want to examine it in the future, they can.


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#77 Rusty

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 02:52 PM

archive.org have backed up the site after I made a request (and a few other people did as well). If people want to examine it in the future, they can.

You know that YYG is pretty much legally bound to request a takedown now, yes? This is pretty much a direct violation of the terms and conditions of the Sandbox. I don't even understand why you would even announce this on YYG's own forums?

Edit:
You two are literally the worst pirates on the internet. Fais announced his plans for illegal activity before it even begun and Juju just gave away the loot he stole from the website. How can you possibly be so bad at this?

puCsFzj.gif

Edited by Rusty, 21 March 2016 - 02:58 PM.

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#78 hippyman

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 02:57 PM

 

archive.org have backed up the site after I made a request (and a few other people did as well). If people want to examine it in the future, they can.

You know that YYG is pretty much legally bound to request a takedown now, yes? This is pretty much a direct violation of the terms and conditions of the Sandbox. I don't even understand why you would even announce this on YYG's own forums?

Edit:
You two are literally the worst pirates on the internet. Fais announced his plans for illegal activity before it even begun and Juju just gave away the loot he stole from the website. How can you possibly be so bad at this?

 

Hopefully it's just a misunderstanding on how IP works.


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#79 Rusty

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 03:06 PM

Hopefully it's just a misunderstanding on how IP works.

I hope so too, so far their careers in piracy are going very Bonnet.
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#80 faissialoo

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 03:07 PM

You lot were concerned with the copyright bullcrap, so I fixed it. It's yours to justify what issue you could possibly have now.

You're not fixing anything, distribution is still illegal. Pirates use torrents because it's harder to track, not because it's somehow legal.

It's not, the copyright holders still own the rights to their software, they didn't somehow waive that right when they allowed YoyoGames to distribute their software. If I ask the copyright holders for their permission to freely distribute their content, there should be no issue.
 

From stealing and distributing my content without my consent, yes.

'distributing my content without my consent' as if it's completely ok to still own a product after you've 'sold' it.
 

I put in the time to make it, I get to decide who I want to give permission to distribute it to.

Your ability to do something doesn't make it moral
 

No, you're just planning to steal a company asset (the YYG Sandbox Database) and start distributing it.

When did downloading something that is freely available become equivalent to stealing?
 

Nowhere in the terms and conditions of the Sandbox that the authours agreed to did it state that their content would be distributed by YYG

Actually...

* By uploading, submitting, posting or otherwise placing any Content, including Games on yoyogames.com you expressly agree and confirm that:
[...]
* you grant to YoYo Games the non-exclusive, irrevocable, worldwide, perpetual, royalty free right and licence to use your Content, including Games on and in connection with yoyogames.com and to give all consents (if any) which YoYo Games requires including under copyright and other intellectual property, data protection and privacy laws world wide, for that use only; WHAT this meanS IS that we will NOT sell your Game OR ANY EXTENSIONS (OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU UPLOAD) or use THEM separately from yoyogames.com WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION. WHAT IT DOES mean IS that we can use WHAT YOU UPLOAD WITHIN THE web site and make it available to users of the web site


(and maybe faissialoo from the GMC in the future).

I am completely within my rights to come to a separate agreement with the copyright holders on my own terms.
 

YYG had a claus in their terms and conditions that made it impossible for them to transfer their hosted content to anybody else, so in absolutely no way do you have any right to take the content from the Sandbox and distribute it yourself.

I'm not asking them to.
 

This is piracy and not the "noble" kind.

Nope, I am completely within my rights to do this

* All third party copyright, design rights, database rights, patents, trade names and trade marks are the property of their respective owners and YoYo Games makes no warranty or representation in relation thereto.


archive.org have backed up the site after I made a request (and a few other people did as well). If people want to examine it in the future, they can.

Oh goody, looks like I won't have to spend £45 and go through the trouble of trying to track down dead accounts and then spend the money on hosting

Hm, playing lawyer is fun isn't it?

Edited by faissialoo, 21 March 2016 - 03:11 PM.

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#81 Rusty

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 03:13 PM

It's not, the copyright holders still own the rights to their software, they didn't somehow waive that right when they allowed YoyoGames to distribute their software. If I ask the copyright holders for their permission to freely distribute their content, there should be no issue.

You're not planning on distributing the content that the authours agree to, you're planning on asking the few if it's okay and then taking the right away from the many.

From stealing and distributing my content without my consent, yes.

'distributing my content without my consent' as if it's completely ok to still own a product after you've 'sold' it.

Yes, for example, you can't buy a copy of my game then stick your name on it and start taking credit for it. It's still my intellectual property.

Your ability to do something doesn't make it moral

I'm glad we agree.

No, you're just planning to steal a company asset (the YYG Sandbox Database) and start distributing it.

When did downloading something that is freely available become equivalent to stealing?

When it was distributed without permission.

Nowhere in the terms and conditions of the Sandbox that the authours agreed to did it state that their content would be distributed by YYG

Actually...

* By uploading, submitting, posting or otherwise placing any Content, including Games on yoyogames.com you expressly agree and confirm that:
[...]
* you grant to YoYo Games the non-exclusive, irrevocable, worldwide, perpetual, royalty free right and licence to use your Content, including Games on and in connection with yoyogames.com and to give all consents (if any) which YoYo Games requires including under copyright and other intellectual property, data protection and privacy laws world wide, for that use only; WHAT this meanS IS that we will NOT sell your Game OR ANY EXTENSIONS (OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU UPLOAD) or use THEM separately from yoyogames.com WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION. WHAT IT DOES mean IS that we can use WHAT YOU UPLOAD WITHIN THE web site and make it available to users of the web site

Did you read this before posting it or...?

(and maybe faissialoo from the GMC in the future).

I am completely within my rights to come to a separate agreement with the copyright holders on my own terms.

You are correct, and then you may distribute the content of those copyright holders, not everybody on the Sandbox. This is an opt-in agreement, not an opt-out.

YYG had a claus in their terms and conditions that made it impossible for them to transfer their hosted content to anybody else, so in absolutely no way do you have any right to take the content from the Sandbox and distribute it yourself.

I'm not asking them to.

No, you're taking it without asking.
 

Hm, playing lawyer is fun isn't it?

When you're terrible at it, I wouldn't recommend it.
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#82 Juju

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 03:16 PM

If anyone takes issue with archive.org's charitable effort to preserve early digital culture, I suggest you take it up with them. Rattling around on these forums - which are too going into in an archive in the near future - will achieve precious little.


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#83 Rusty

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 03:18 PM

If anyone takes issue with archive.org's charitable effort to preserve early digital culture, I suggest you take it up with them. Rattling around on these forums - which are too going into in an archive in the near future - will achieve precious little.

It's in violation of YYG's terms and conditions, not mine. Since I don't hold the original content, it's up to YYG to file the request which leaves me with nothing to do but to explain to you why you're terrible at piracy. Then when the GMC gets archived (because the GMC can legally be archived), you'll be able to come back to this topic whenever you want and be reminded about how terrible you are at piracy.

Edited by Rusty, 21 March 2016 - 03:19 PM.

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#84 faissialoo

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 04:54 PM

It's not, the copyright holders still own the rights to their software, they didn't somehow waive that right when they allowed YoyoGames to distribute their software. If I ask the copyright holders for their permission to freely distribute their content, there should be no issue.

You're not planning on distributing the content that the authours agree to, you're planning on asking the few if it's okay and then taking the right away from the many.

Please learn to read before you go off and on wild tangents about how I'm violating muh copyright

If I archive as much as I can, go through and track down every author and ask them to give me the rights to distribute their software [...] will that be ok?


Yes, for example, you can't buy a copy of my game then stick your name on it and start taking credit for it. It's still my intellectual property.

Give me one good reason why I shouldn't be able to rebrand a piece of software I own?
 

When it was distributed without permission.

But it wasn't, sandbox.yoyogames.com is owned by YoyoGames
 

Did you read this before posting it or...?

Yes, and it backs up my point
 

You are correct, and then you may distribute the content of those copyright holders, not everybody on the Sandbox. This is an opt-in agreement, not an opt-out.

If I archive as much as I can, go through and track down every author and ask them to give me the rights to distribute their software [...] will that be ok?



No, you're taking it without asking.

It's not YoyoGames' intellectual property, I don't have to ask them.
 

When you're terrible at it, I wouldn't recommend it.

Nah, it's too much fun

Edited by faissialoo, 21 March 2016 - 04:55 PM.

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#85 Snail_Man

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 04:55 PM

Funny how everyone suddenly cares about copyrights now, but when softpedia was redistributing all those sandbox games a few years back, the general attitude was pretty different

I fail to see where the breach of copyright in all this is... They clearly state that the games are made by the OP (or whoever) and take no credit themselves for them. Also, if you are going to host an exe on a site then you shouldn't be surprised that it can be leached for other sites to download too... in fact, I'd be rather pleased that your games are getting out there to a wider audience than you expected!


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#86 faissialoo

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 05:27 PM

Funny how everyone suddenly cares about copyrights now, but when softpedia was redistributing all those sandbox games a few years back, the general attitude was pretty different
 

I fail to see where the breach of copyright in all this is... They clearly state that the games are made by the OP (or whoever) and take no credit themselves for them. Also, if you are going to host an exe on a site then you shouldn't be surprised that it can be leached for other sites to download too... in fact, I'd be rather pleased that your games are getting out there to a wider audience than you expected!

Some more instances:

Does anyone know how to get them the off softpedia?

Don't worry... if we all give it really bad reviews, nobody will play it.

Better yet, we could all report it as malware. That'll teach them to advertise your game for free. Here's the report link: Report spyware in Bombs in the Backyard

I don't like Softpedia's model, but in a lot of cases they're not doing anything wrong. They are staying within the bounds DMCA. And judging by how quickly they respnded to the OP's removal request they are treating it respectfully.

Part of the DMCA recognises that a lot of Internet sites' content is user provided, and so long as they respect the rights of the copyright holders by removing copyrighted material upon request they are protected by the safe harbour act.

This is what protects YYGs from copyright infringement from all the fan games that clearly are infringing on the copyright holders rights. Why is it that Softpedia is so evil, but YYGs is not. They are doing the same thing?
 

I've already had my game wrongly used by a magazine and it really got to me.


How did a magazine wrongly use your game?

Stealing your games? Oh no! This is just like a smash and grab at the corner store, where someone breaks in, shoots the cashier, and walks out with a bag of potato chips! You'd better file a theft report with the police. Maybe, if you're lucky, you'll be able to get your games back so you can play them again.

Or... Perhaps I'll just let softpedia do this. smile.gif I looked at the download count over there - yep, this turned out to be a good thing... Haha.

Isn't it funny how some people's opinions have changed to be the complete polar opposite in this thread... Including myself funnily enough

Edited by faissialoo, 21 March 2016 - 05:30 PM.

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#87 johnboy

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 06:03 PM

FIGHT THE POWER Y'ALL!!

 

Look, I realize there is this epic battle going on about YoYo being an "evil" corporation demolishing history (they're worse than Hitler etc), and stuff about "evil" GMC users ignoring copyright concerns (they're worse than midget clones of Hitler etc). As fascinating as this drama and battles of ego is to witness, could somebody do something, well, more productive...and actually suggest some of these games worth downloading?

 

Just a thought - and as I've already posted this suggestion once before not one I'll repeat again. 


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#88 roytheshort

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 06:05 PM

I've printed out screenshots of Click the Clown and put them in public places. 

 

Your move Yoyogames.


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#89 faissialoo

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 07:08 PM

FIGHT THE POWER Y'ALL!!
 
Look, I realize there is this epic battle going on about YoYo being an "evil" corporation demolishing history (they're worse than Hitler etc), and stuff about "evil" GMC users ignoring copyright concerns (they're worse than midget clones of Hitler etc). As fascinating as this drama and battles of ego is to witness, could somebody do something, well, more productive...and actually suggest some of these games worth downloading?
 
Just a thought - and as I've already posted this suggestion once before not one I'll repeat again.

Tube Craft
http://sandbox.yoyog...5542-tube-craft
Core
http://sandbox.yoyog...om/games/140869
Luke's stuff
http://sandbox.yoyog...ers/luke_escude
You can find a bunch of other good stuff if you go to featured too.
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#90 NAL

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 07:08 PM

I've printed out screenshots of Click the Clown and put them in public places. 
 
Your move Yoyogames.


****ty_pirate_by_dilletantmetalhead-d605
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#91 Lukan Spellweaver

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 07:13 PM

NAL, I'm not 100% on what that signifies.... I think it's a pirate, but it could also be the Toxic Avenger.


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#92 Rusty

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 07:39 PM

It's not, the copyright holders still own the rights to their software, they didn't somehow waive that right when they allowed YoyoGames to distribute their software. If I ask the copyright holders for their permission to freely distribute their content, there should be no issue.

You're not planning on distributing the content that the authours agree to, you're planning on asking the few if it's okay and then taking the right away from the many.

Please learn to read before you go off and on wild tangents about how I'm violating muh copyright

If I archive as much as I can, go through and track down every author and ask them to give me the rights to distribute their software [...] will that be ok?

If you're going to get permission before distributing any software then you're basically making your own sandbox anyway (and it's totally legal and okay).
 

Yes, for example, you can't buy a copy of my game then stick your name on it and start taking credit for it. It's still my intellectual property.

Give me one good reason why I shouldn't be able to rebrand a piece of software I own?

Because it's not your software and you don't own the rights to it. It's my software, you can own a copy, you can enjoy it, you can mod it or whatever else you want, but it is mine, I am the authour.

You don't take books from the library and scribble your name over the authour's. The book still belongs to the authour, you just own a copy of the book.

Also illegal. I should probably have led with how completely illegal it is to take credit for my work (without my permission).

No, you're taking it without asking.

It's not YoyoGames' intellectual property, I don't have to ask them.

No, but you do have to track down and ask permission for every single one of the authours, not just the few you can find.

From what I now understand, you are planning on only redistributing software that you have permission to distribute whereas perviously, I thought you were going to take the entire YYG sandbox, get a few authours on board to grant you permission and then keep the entire sandbox intact upon redistribution.

You understand that not all the authours will agree to this, a lot of them may even be unreachable now. You won't be able to upload the "YYG Sandbox", it will still be a new Sandbox, just with a few of the old games on it. It's a completely different thing.

Edited by Rusty, 21 March 2016 - 07:40 PM.

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#93 faissialoo

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 08:12 PM

If you're going to get permission before distributing any software then you're basically making your own sandbox anyway (and it's totally legal and okay).

THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING
 

Because it's not your software and you don't own the rights to it. It's my software, you can own a copy, you can enjoy it, you can mod it or whatever else you want, but it is mine, I am the authour.

It should become mine when I purchase it.
 

You don't take books from the library and scribble your name over the authour's. The book still belongs to the authour, you just own a copy of the book.

No it doesn't, I am well within my rights to scribble on the authors name and put my own there and then sell it. Someone will probably not want to buy it in that condition, but it doesn't affect my ability to do so. It is not the author's book, it is my book, I am in possession of it, when I paid the author it was a transfer of goods, I gave him money and he gave me an item, what I do or do not do with that item is none of their business.
 

Also illegal. I should probably have led with how completely illegal it is to take credit for my work (without my permission).

I don't care whether it's illegal or legal, the law doesn't dictate what is and is not moral.
 

No, but you do have to track down and ask permission for every single one of the authours, not just the few you can find.

I know


From what I now understand, you are planning on only redistributing software that you have permission to distribute whereas perviously, I thought you were going to take the entire YYG sandbox, get a few authours on board to grant you permission and then keep the entire sandbox intact upon redistribution.

Exactly, my original idea was to distribute all of them without permission however, a few posters made me realise that now that YoyoGames is owned by PlayTech, their legal team is probably alot beefier and I am in no position to protect myself in the case that they sue me for damages, so I came to this compromise.
 

You understand that not all the authours will agree to this

I know, maybe they might need a little persuasion... I'm sure I can find something that will fulfill both our interests.
 

a lot of them may even be unreachable now.

I tend to be very good at tracking people down, so as long as they're still alive and active somewhere online, I should be able to find them.

You won't be able to upload the "YYG Sandbox", it will still be a new Sandbox, just with a few of the old games on it. It's a completely different thing.

No it's not, because I will exclusively be adding games from the YYG sandbox and nowhere else.

Edited by faissialoo, 21 March 2016 - 08:12 PM.

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#94 Loaf

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 09:14 PM

Using your work for it's intended purpose and allowing others to continue to do so is not 'abuse'.[...]

 

As far as I'm concerned if someone creates a piece of software and doesn't make any money from that specific distribution method (whether it be ads or payment), I see no logical reason why I shouldn't share their work with others as long as I never claim it to be my own.[...]

I don't believe myself to be in a superior position to anyone, I just think 'intelectual property' is by and large a load of horse crap and no one

It makes no difference what you think about intellectual property. The intended purpose is for the game to be distributed through the YoYo Sandbox website. It isn't up to you to decide whether or not it is legal or sensible to upload someone elses work just because there isn't a price tag on it, and it demonstrates a vibe of superiority and arrogance for you to force that view onto everyone else.

 


Edited by Loaf, 21 March 2016 - 09:15 PM.

:duck:


#95 Ninety

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 09:18 PM

Fais, the fact that you disagree with copyright law doesn't void it.
 

And your example of rebranding Rusty's work is terrifying. Critics of copyright law usually don't recommend that you straight up steal stuff and pass it off as your own, which is exactly what your example is. There's a reason we have IP laws, it's to protect people.

 

EDIT: Have you actually ever had your work stolen, and passed off as someone else's? I have. Multiple times. I'm not going to name names but people on this forum have taken my art and passed it off as their own before, and I had some former friends plagiarise huge sections of multiple assignments from me. Mine were small cases but it's not fun and I'm glad the law protects me from it. Whether or not you support copyright law, you can still support basic decency to creators.


Edited by Ninety, 21 March 2016 - 09:25 PM.

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#96 RekNepZ

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 10:00 PM

Funny how everyone suddenly cares about copyrights now, but when softpedia was redistributing all those sandbox games a few years back, the general attitude was pretty different
 

I fail to see where the breach of copyright in all this is... They clearly state that the games are made by the OP (or whoever) and take no credit themselves for them. Also, if you are going to host an exe on a site then you shouldn't be surprised that it can be leached for other sites to download too... in fact, I'd be rather pleased that your games are getting out there to a wider audience than you expected!

 

That's a good point (though, to be fair, Noc hadn't joined YoYo when he said that). If YYG is going to stop any of us from re-hosting, why aren't they stopping Softpedia from doing the same thing? Or maybe they have. I really don't know.


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#97 Loaf

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 10:06 PM

I recall the Softpedia situation being one of frustration, but there are key differences between a person torrenting a collection of games / reploading them, and Softpedia:

  • Softpedia will remove a project at author request, or update it for them
  • Softpedia gives the author control over the display of their content
  • Softpedia is reputable and will work with developers

These are key differences. If some random person starts reuploading thousands of games, the developers have no say or control, and can't be sure their work isn't being abused / rebranded / associated with something dumb.


Edited by Loaf, 21 March 2016 - 10:06 PM.

:duck:


#98 Lawsome

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 10:31 PM

Guys I think you're getting confused. As far as I can tell Fais is saying two different things.

 

- That he doesn't agree with the law.

- That he's going to create a backup.

 

However the backup Fais is suggesting IS LEGAL. His plan is 100% within the law. He doesn't agree with the law. But he's still complying with it.

 

Am I right Fais?


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#99 Rusty

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 10:36 PM

You don't take books from the library and scribble your name over the authour's. The book still belongs to the authour, you just own a copy of the book.

No it doesn't, I am well within my rights to scribble on the authors name and put my own there and then sell it. Someone will probably not want to buy it in that condition, but it doesn't affect my ability to do so. It is not the author's book, it is my book, I am in possession of it, when I paid the author it was a transfer of goods, I gave him money and he gave me an item, what I do or do not do with that item is none of their business.

Sorry kid but this isn't how life works. You purchase a copy, a clone, the glory still remains in the hands of the authour. You can't claim credit for things you didn't do simply because you purchased them. I've met many pirates during my time on the internet, some of them proud and some of them arrogant but never have I met one so darn immature.
 

Also illegal. I should probably have led with how completely illegal it is to take credit for my work (without my permission).

I don't care whether it's illegal or legal, the law doesn't dictate what is and is not moral.

Neither do you. The law represents a much larger population than a single person. A single person may decide it is okay to kill, rape, loot or murder, but this doesn't matter. As a whole, we know these things are essentially wrong, so regardless of what loose moral high ground you want to pit yourself on, your personal opinion does not effect the morality of your actions. Morality is seen as just and unjust, you simply need to look at the reactions you provoke to see which side you're on and kid, these aren't going well for you, are they?

Edit:

Guys I think you're getting confused. As far as I can tell Fais is saying two different things.

Exactly, my original idea was to distribute all of them without permission however, a few posters made me realise that now that YoyoGames is owned by PlayTech, their legal team is probably alot beefier and I am in no position to protect myself in the case that they sue me for damages, so I came to this compromise.

When the law and general respect for others is considered a "compromise" because there is a threat of legal action there is clearly something fundamentally wrong with the situation.

Regardless of his plans for the YYG Sandbox, he's apparently allowing himself the right to become the sole authour of the entire Sandbox because it was provided for free, so it's his property now. I know you like to interfere Lawsome but there really is no defence here.

Edited by Rusty, 21 March 2016 - 10:41 PM.

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#100 Ninety

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 10:48 PM

Lawsome, Fais is arguing two separate things.

 

One, that he wants to host a new sandbox with author permissions.

 

Two, that once he has ownership of something, he should, morally, be allowed to change and distribute it as he sees fit. Rusty and I are mostly addressing this point.


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