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The Big GMC Upgrade!


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#101 HayManMarc

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 02:43 AM

I just had a thought....

We all better figure out and lock in our signatures and profiles for this board, since it's will all be locked up and inaccessible afterwards. Pretty sure Mods won't be bothered with adjusting everyone's personal information.
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#102 Lolligirl

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 02:50 AM

Sounds exciting! Excited for the Jam to continue on strong for its 5th anniversary, too. :)

 

Will there be a dark theme like this one available on the new forums? I really don't like bright white themes as they hurt my eyes. Just one dark option would be lovely. :D


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#103 Mr. RPG

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 03:04 AM

 

I'm not a fan at all of the forum software. Never even heard of it before now.

Can you guys give any specific reasons why you chose this over established, popular software like IP.Board?

A lot of reasons, we've been let down by IP.Board on a number of occasions especially where security is concerned, where controlling spam and bots is concerned, where styling is concerned, and so on and so forth. Xenforo is much stronger on all of these fronts and leaves us less terrified to extend and potentially add plugins etc without the fear that the whole thing will melt.

 

The new software has all the stuff that's good about these forums, is mobile friendly and more robust all round. It's also super easy for us to add custom colors and style so we're not necessarily stuck with one theme forever and ever.

 

Has some neat extra built in stuff like thread previews too. Have a mooch around the live demo or even some of the skins at http://www.xenfocus.com/.

 

Are you guys planning to update the new forum software on a regular basis this time around? Part of the concern about this forum was that the forum software was usually out-of-date.

 

 

So, is there a consensus yet on how the content on the new forums will be organized, as in subforum structure and all that?

 

It's being streamlined so that most content that currently belongs to sub boards can instead be posted into larger, more central boards. We want to start with as few as possible and build up only as and when necessary.  For example, currently we have "Alpha projects" and "Beta projects" as two separate boards when really they both serve the purpose of hosting WIP game threads. This sort of thing will be merged into one central location.

 

I'm not prepared to share an exact structure as there are a _lot_ of changes that may still may change internally and I don't want to give out a wrong impression or start a large and complex multi-thread debate on it. But if you have particular concerns or questions about specific boards or content feel free to ask and I will share our position on it.

 

Suffice to say I think it works in everyone's interests and will help make the forums much easier to use =)


The name of the forum won't change. It's the new GMC, but it's still the GMC =)

 

I really hope the new forum structure is better than what we have now. There are some forums that would benefit from being merged with similar forums. You gave one example (the Alpha and Beta project forums) and I agree with it. The split didn't really help very much. As for another example, I think that the Advanced GML Discussion and 3D Game Techniques forums could benefit from being merged as well. I also think that the forums in general could use better names and descriptions.

 

What will the new forum domain be since gmc.yoyogames.com is already taken?

 

One more thing, will there still be custom member titles?


Edited by Mr. RPG, 13 January 2016 - 03:04 AM.

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#104 Dangerous_Dave

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 03:21 AM

Nope it can't be, as the actual physical machines used for the GMC are also being updated and things changed around. SO GMC goes down for about 2 weeks, then the new Phoenix GMC 2.0 rises from it's ashes on a new URL while the old and burnt out GMC languishes in archive heaven.


GMC 2.0? I swear this one will be at least 4.0...
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#105 RekNepZ

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 04:02 AM

 

Nope it can't be, as the actual physical machines used for the GMC are also being updated and things changed around. SO GMC goes down for about 2 weeks, then the new Phoenix GMC 2.0 rises from it's ashes on a new URL while the old and burnt out GMC languishes in archive heaven.


GMC 2.0? I swear this one will be at least 4.0...

 

Yeah, it's 4.0. Unless you count the failed switch to IPBoard back in 2002.


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#106 Tirous

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 04:51 AM

well i'm all for this change, part of me still ain't 100%

 

tho that might just be me, never was one to take something without a pinch of salt, as things i put my full trust into always seem to come back and bite me in the a*s later =/

 

regardless, my only concern is that most people get to the new forums and everything stays relatively the same from there, and that the layout isn't crap, cant stay on a forums for years when you cant stand the sight of it =D


Edited by Tirous, 13 January 2016 - 04:52 AM.

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#107 GameDevDan

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 09:59 AM

RE: Reputation Discussion

 

I hope there's something similar on the new forum! I don't care about the total rep dished out, but having those two buttons on every post is actually really useful. It allows you to express agreement or (strong) disagreement with a person's ideas without repeating the same points over and over again, which is especially useful in threads with a lot of debate.

 

It also allows you to see, at a glance, the level of support for a feature or something you might be considering for your game, or the usefulness of advice you're giving out in the help forums. Just because some people abuse it, or take it too seriously, doesn't mean it's not useful :)

 

I do hope we get it back on GMC 2.0!


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#108 rmanthorp

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 11:13 AM

Dan said something dumb again

Downvoted lol


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#109 chance

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 11:54 AM

RE: Reputation Discussion

 

I hope there's something similar on the new forum! (snip)

 

Apparently, XenForo software uses the "Like" system.   I think the default system is positive-only, with trophies for reaching certain milestones (either post count, or likes... not sure).   But I suspect there are add-ons that provide user reputation, with up/down votes. 

 

I haven't looked carefully at their add-on page.   But I'm sure other members will, and then request all manner of bizarre features.  :P


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#110 ShaunS

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 12:04 PM

Yeah, by default they have a positive-only likes system. There are add ons available that support systems similar to what we have now.

 

Which, while I see the merits in the rep system as described by Dan above, I'd argue that the majority of the positive use of the rep system comes from... positive use!

 

I don't see a lot of value in dislike/downrep/automated disapproval. It's hard for the user to interpret that kind of contextless negative feedback and it isn't really necessary.


Edited by ShaunS, 13 January 2016 - 12:05 PM.

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#111 Loaf

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 12:04 PM

Like systems are good, because you can throw support towards positive attitudes and comments, but you can't devalue alternative viewpoints or hassle individual posters, and so it allows posters to be more confident about challenging ideas. I think that is healthier. It is easy to say "well rep doesn't matter" but some people can't help it. Nobody wants a big red banner on their profile.


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#112 chance

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 12:11 PM

I've never really used the down-vote option much.  But I'm fine with having it.  One can argue it has value.

 

Actually, the GMC rep system started as positive-only.   But after a while,  some users (and staff) felt that wasn't edgy enough.  :P   I believe it was Mike who switched on the down-vote option.


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#113 Alice

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 12:13 PM

Also, just to make sure: Xenforo uses good ol' BBCode, right? So posts copied from here would require little or no alteration to preserve formatting? (not counting very GM-specific cases)
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#114 chance

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 12:17 PM

Looks like all the usual BBCode features are included.   Not sure whether the post editor has handy buttons to select them, or whether users have to type tags.


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#115 RujiK

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 01:26 PM

I've probably rep_up.png 500ish times and rep_down.png only 20 times. But MAAAAAAAN does it feel good to downvote a post that's already past -10.

 

I hope downvote stays. It can be so gratifying.


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#116 NotWhoYouThink

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 02:59 PM

I think that we should have an up and down voting system but that you should have to have certain prerequisites to be able to downvote, such as this much already acquired reputation or these many posts first.


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#117 Yal

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 03:21 PM

I think downvotes are good in places like Q&A (where you can downvote unhelpful and wrong replies, or questions along the lines of 'make this for me kay i wont credit you or anyhing but pleas do t anyways') and the general chat sections (where you can downvote people for being grossly impolite or when you just want to show them you disagree firmly without having to repeat what someone else say). Upvotes are useful everywhere.

 

Maybe we should have a third option, yellow question mark flags? This could be used to flag a comment as 'I simply don't understand', and getting a bunch of these would be a sign you should clarify what you mean.


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#118 HopelessComposer

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 05:02 PM

If we have positive rep, we need negative rep to balance it out. Communities that have only "likes" always become echo chambers for morons and their stupid ideas. Go look at any facebook feed - every racist, banal, and stupid post on it will have at least a few likes. Without negative reps, there's only positive reinforcement. That'd be great if people only made positive posts, but they don't. People don't usually downvote unless the poster really deserves it. Even if people abuse it once in awhile, it's still a useful feature to gauge the popularity of ideas and posts.

 

With negative rep, when someone here makes a snide as*holish comment, they'll get a like or two from their fellow as*holes, but will be buried in downvotes, as they should be. Without negative rep, a*sholes will think every post they make is a popular and good one, since nobody actually wants to respond to an a*shole, since it's a pain in the ass arguing with them. Downvotes are a great way of getting people to think for a second before hitting "post." Our community here is an unusually friendly one compared to the rest of the internet. Let's not screw with it too much. :)


Edited by HopelessComposer, 13 January 2016 - 05:34 PM.

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#119 Lawsome

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 06:01 PM

If we have positive rep, we need negative rep to balance it out. Communities that have only "likes" always become echo chambers for morons and their stupid ideas. Go look at any facebook feed - every racist, banal, and stupid post on it will have at least a few likes. Without negative reps, there's only positive reinforcement. That'd be great if people only made positive posts, but they don't. People don't usually downvote unless the poster really deserves it. Even if people abuse it once in awhile, it's still a useful feature to gauge the popularity of ideas and posts.

Woah woah woah buddy that's not right at all. What about reddit, that's the most echochambry place on the internet.
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#120 mr magnus

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 06:09 PM

Woah woah woah buddy that's not right at all. What about reddit, that's the most echochambry place on the internet.


That's not the fault of the voting system, that's the fault of the subreddit. If you go into /r/Dota2 you can't be suprised when you suddenly find yourself in a place filled with nothing but fans of Dota that are willing to defend and echo about that topic. Any place is an echo camber if you fill it with nothing but people who agree with each other.

The voting system is completely irrelevant to its userbase. The individual subreddits have users that all have a similar opinion or stance (otherwise they wouldn't be following that subreddit, I'm not subscribed to /r/Civ just because; I love the game and want to participate in the community. For the same reason I'm not subscribed to /r/CounterStrike. I don't play nor enjoy CS, so I don't follow its community nor participate in discussion. This very simple principle leads that subreddits attract like-minded people. That's the entire point

Edited by mr magnus, 13 January 2016 - 06:12 PM.

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#121 Forester

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 06:40 PM

635 it's a nice number
 
so it's happening...

Work to 666

 

Sadly I have never come across a forum as aesthetically pleasing as the GMC dark theme, and compared to IPBoard, XF looks just plain bad.

aside from that, BRING ON THE NEW FORUM!!

Edited by Forester, 13 January 2016 - 06:52 PM.

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#122 Barvix

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 08:07 PM

If we have positive rep, we need negative rep to balance it out. Communities that have only "likes" always become echo chambers for morons and their stupid ideas. Go look at any facebook feed - every racist, banal, and stupid post on it will have at least a few likes. Without negative reps, there's only positive reinforcement. That'd be great if people only made positive posts, but they don't. People don't usually downvote unless the poster really deserves it. Even if people abuse it once in awhile, it's still a useful feature to gauge the popularity of ideas and posts.

 

With negative rep, when someone here makes a snide as*holish comment, they'll get a like or two from their fellow as*holes, but will be buried in downvotes, as they should be. Without negative rep, a*sholes will think every post they make is a popular and good one, since nobody actually wants to respond to an a*shole, since it's a pain in the ass arguing with them. Downvotes are a great way of getting people to think for a second before hitting "post." Our community here is an unusually friendly one compared to the rest of the internet. Let's not screw with it too much. :)

This basically summarizes my thoughts on the rep system. Maybe if the new forums have rep I'll try that out again. And if I still don't like it I still don't like it.



#123 ShaunS

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 09:24 PM

If we have positive rep, we need negative rep to balance it out. Communities that have only "likes" always become echo chambers for morons and their stupid ideas. Go look at any facebook feed - every racist, banal, and stupid post on it will have at least a few likes. Without negative reps, there's only positive reinforcement. That'd be great if people only made positive posts, but they don't. People don't usually downvote unless the poster really deserves it. Even if people abuse it once in awhile, it's still a useful feature to gauge the popularity of ideas and posts.

 

With negative rep, when someone here makes a snide as*holish comment, they'll get a like or two from their fellow as*holes, but will be buried in downvotes, as they should be. Without negative rep, a*sholes will think every post they make is a popular and good one, since nobody actually wants to respond to an a*shole, since it's a pain in the ass arguing with them. Downvotes are a great way of getting people to think for a second before hitting "post." Our community here is an unusually friendly one compared to the rest of the internet. Let's not screw with it too much. :)

 

I wholeheartedly disagree, I don't think negative reinforcement via arbitrary metrics is effective at all. Words are hard enough for us to interpret when communicating with one another let alone when trying to interpret a generic "negative response" that could mean any number of different things. The problem is shared with positive response of course, but you'll always have the feeling that what you said had value to the person voting it up. Whether they specifically agreed with you, thought what you said was funny, useful, insightful or they just happen to like you a lot. All of those feelings are positive and you feel better about your contribution no matter how you interpret the response.

 

With a negative response there's no way to know how to interpret that in a way to allow you to improve your content (if your content was even being voted down because it's bad). You can take it in any number of ways from someone thinking you're being unhelpful, to someone having a grudge against you, liking your ideas but not your tone, and so on and so forth. I'd rather encourage users to actually express in words what they "dislike" about a post than to try and automate a potentially quite complex response to something. I think it's a bad move for any forum and it probably shows in the fact that most places don't use it. 

 

Reddit is a totally different scenario, and its voting system is central to how it functions. The voting system _is_ reddit to a large degree. It isn't a useful comparison regardless of if you like or dislike their system.

 

 

635 it's a nice number
 
so it's happening...

Work to 666

 

Sadly I have never come across a forum as aesthetically pleasing as the GMC dark theme, and compared to IPBoard, XF looks just plain bad.

aside from that, BRING ON THE NEW FORUM!!

 

 

 

All I can think of at this point is the layout, this forum has a great simple clean effective look that stretches across the entire screen and is friendly and non distracting (using the dark theme), I however have not seen this in any of the themes on the new software example page.

The default skin for Xenforo is actually extremely customizable, it didn't take me long to create a layout that looked nearly identical to the GMC as it currently stands by myself, but wait and see ;)


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#124 Lukasmah

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 09:26 PM

Xenforo seems pretty similar to IPB.
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#125 Alice

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 09:26 PM

Sooo... what will the next board be called, I wonder. Would it be GMC 2.0? GMC Next? Project Hermes? :whistling:
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#126 ShaunS

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 09:27 PM

Sooo... what will the next board be called, I wonder. Would it be GMC 2.0? GMC Next? Project Hermes? :whistling:

As I said, the GMC is the GMC. It won't have a new name.


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#127 Lukan Spellweaver

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 09:49 PM

I feel like it should have a subtitle or something...

_This_ is the GMC... The new place is going to be a GMC, but not _the_ GMC. This is like the longest living GM board, no?

You besmirch her honour if you simply bestow her title upon the youngling forum.


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#128 Loaf

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 10:17 PM

I strongly disagree that negative reputation has any place in a balanced forum.

While I can understand there are times where it might make sense, the negative application of it outweighs practical use.

Someone offers bad advice in a Q&A? Tell them why their advice is bad. Build upon the discussion! Someone is being unpleasant in off topic? Ignore their message, or speak to them and try to understand why that are behaving in that way.

We are a forum, we should be talking and not just indicating how we feel with a little button.

Downvoting a post doesn't help discussion. It doesn't indicate the significance, truthfulness, or value of a message, but only how many people decided they liked it (which is bad because sometimes the right answer is not the one you like). There are a lot of young people at this website, who might not be able to understand fair application of the downvote button, and who will be sensitive to being downvoted. Case in point; I am somewhat disappointed that five people upvoted HopelessComposer suggesting that negative rep is required to stop the good people here from being "morons and a*sholes". It's a ridiculous and inflammatory comment to make, and I'm sitting here wanting to know why those five people agree with that.

The reason Facebook doesn't have it is because it is well known that these buttons are a catalyst for bullying and mob harassment. HopelessComposer; you don't get to decide whose ideas are moronic and stupid to the rest of us. If a group of people decide to like someones idea, however dumb it may seem to you, they are perfectly allowed to and there is nothing wrong with that. There is absolutely no need to then weigh up a statistical comparison of who thinks they are "morons".  That doesn't sound like a good community to be a part of to me.

 

What you do is you talk about the post you disagree with, as am I doing to your message. If I simply downvoted your message, we would only be rating each others opinions and not trying to examine them and influence each other. That sounds like a far greater dumbing down of a forum to me.


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#129 chance

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 10:34 PM

I wholeheartedly disagree, I don't think negative reinforcement via arbitrary metrics is effective at all. (snip)


I strongly disagree that negative reputation has any place in a balanced forum. (snip)


These same arguments against negative rep were made the last time around.   And I agree they have merit.  But in the end, the evil staff decided in favor of self destruction.  :P  Surprisingly, and despite dire predictions, the GMC didn't devour itself.  As it turned out, not many people gave negative rep.  And those who over-used it, harmed themselves more than others.

 

My point isn't to support negative rep. (Don't care either way.)  I'm just suggesting that it won't really be harmful.


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#130 Juju

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 10:39 PM

[reddit's] voting system is central to how it functions.

 

Since reddit stopped permitting submissions (threads) from achieving negative scores, the kind of content that persists on reddit has changed dramatically. You either need to go all in for a per-post voting system (i.e. unfettered positive and negative voting) or accept that your voting system isn't going to be representative of the quality of each specific post. A positive-only system distinguishes the people who make the posts instead of the posts themselves. Still worthwhile, still productive, still broadly achieves the same end goal - higher quality, less trolling.


Edited by Juju, 13 January 2016 - 10:43 PM.

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#131 Ninety

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 10:44 PM

You besmirch her honour if you simply bestow her title upon the youngling forum.


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#132 roytheshort

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 10:50 PM

I will be the first man to type "Clowns" on the new forum.


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#133 mr magnus

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 10:55 PM

I will be the first man to type "Clowns" on the new forum.

I'm out of upvotes so....

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#134 ShaunS

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 11:05 PM

 

I wholeheartedly disagree, I don't think negative reinforcement via arbitrary metrics is effective at all. (snip)


I strongly disagree that negative reputation has any place in a balanced forum. (snip)


These same arguments against negative rep were made the last time around.   And I agree they have merit.  But in the end, the evil staff decided in favor of self destruction.  :P  Surprisingly, and despite dire predictions, the GMC didn't devour itself.  As it turned out, not many people gave negative rep.  And those who over-used it, harmed themselves more than others.

 

My point isn't to support negative rep. (Don't care either way.)  I'm just suggesting that it won't really be harmful.

 

Sure, don't get me wrong, I don't think it's the end of the world. 

 

But I don't recall the last time I felt particularly good about seeing a lot of auto-negativity directed at anyone, here or elsewhere. At best it's reaffirmed me as being on the popular side of a debate when I see content I disagree with being "downvoted" and that to me doesn't seem a valuable thing to have.

 

I don't think it's entirely "worthless" or even particularly damaging.

But I also don't think it's valuable enough versus the well... negativity of it.

 

I'm all for being convinced and talking about it though, else I wouldn't be talking about it! =)


Edited by ShaunS, 13 January 2016 - 11:06 PM.

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#135 Ninety

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 11:16 PM

I don't really mind whether we have it or not, but everyone here seems to be forgetting that we've had negative rep for years now on the GMC, and apart from the occasional troll there have been pretty much no incidents of down vote brigading or harassment.


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#136 Repix

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 11:22 PM

I don't really mind whether we have it or not, but everyone here seems to be forgetting that we've had negative rep for years now on the GMC, and apart from the occasional troll there have been pretty much no incidents of down vote brigading or harassment.

 

Yea I've only seen it once.


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#137 Loaf

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 12:04 AM

I don't really mind whether we have it or not, but everyone here seems to be forgetting that we've had negative rep for years now on the GMC, and apart from the occasional troll there have been pretty much no incidents of down vote brigading or harassment.

I don't agree with this. I've witnessed people try to sway topics by systematically targeting posters to try and discredit them, but generally the effects of a rep system are more subtle than massive outbursts you can memorably cite.
 

Your experience might be different, but to deny that it has changed this community (for better or worse) doesn't seem right to me. I believe the dynamic of this forum has shifted noticeably since the introduction of reputation and off-topic. I feel that the GMC was a different beast in the late 00s.


Edited by Loaf, 14 January 2016 - 12:04 AM.

:duck:


#138 Andy

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 12:12 AM

We could have a SA/Facepunch style post rating system. One with lots of expressive reactions/feelings about the post:

300px-Oldratings.png

 

We could incorporate GMC memes into the system, like a smiley cog rating! :)


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#139 Lukasmah

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 12:41 AM

like a smiley cog rating! :)


I don't think insults like that are allowed.
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#140 HopelessComposer

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 12:48 AM

HopelessComposer; you don't get to decide whose ideas are moronic and stupid to the rest of us. If a group of people decide to like someones idea, however dumb it may seem to you, they are perfectly allowed to and there is nothing wrong with that. There is absolutely no need to then weigh up a statistical comparison of who thinks they are "morons".  That doesn't sound like a good community to be a part of to me.

Way to completely twist my argument into something I didn't say at all. =P

 

Negative rep is a quick way of saying "I disagree," or "you're being an ******," without having to actually type it. You're saying that's a bad thing, because "we should just talk things out, mannnn," but not everyone has the time or willpower to argue with every idiot or jerk they meet online. On the contrary, most people don't, so without negative rep, most bad posts will be upvoted by ignorant or mean people, but will be largely ignored by the rest of the community.

 

Shaun's point that "we don't even know why we're being downrepped!" doesn't make any sense to me, either. It's pretty easy to tell with simple context clues:

Were you being an a*shole? That's why you were downrepped!

Started programming two weeks ago, and you're giving "professional" advice in the Q&A section? That's why you were downrepped!

You're in the off-topic section? That's why you were downrepped! :P

 

Like other people have said, downreps are almost always reserved for when the person "earning" them has done so for an obvious reason.

Anyway, we have an option to opt out of reputation for all you sensitive hippies out there already, right? If you don't want to know what people really think of your posts, then maybe a reputation system isn't for you? =P


Edited by HopelessComposer, 14 January 2016 - 12:54 AM.

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#141 NakedPaulToast

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 12:51 AM

 

Sooo... what will the next board be called, I wonder. Would it be GMC 2.0? GMC Next? Project Hermes? :whistling:

As I said, the GMC is the GMC. It won't have a new name.

 

Why not?

 

YoYo Games has distanced themselves from referring to their flagship product as solely Game Maker, preferring GameMaker: Studio. 

 

Take a look at your own branding page, http://yoyogames.com/brand

 
Our Name
 
When referencing our company use "YoYo Games". When referencing GameMaker: Studio please use "GameMaker: Studio"(not GameMaker, Game Maker, GameMaker Studio, GameMaker:Studio, Game Maker:Studio, or Game Maker: Studio).

 

 

 

This is an opportunity to:

  • Further distance yourself from the older Game Maker product line.
  • Continue to develop the Studio brand 

 

And you've unilaterally decided that the GMC name wont change because, it's the GMC. That's silly and by the way GMC is already pretty heavily associated with this little car company, perhaps you'v heard of them General Motors?

 

At least consider alternatives.

  • GameMaker: Studio Community (GMSC)
  • YoYo Games Community (YYGC)
  • etc

Edited by NakedPaulToast, 14 January 2016 - 12:53 AM.

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#142 HopelessComposer

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 12:59 AM


YoYo Games has distanced themselves from referring to their flagship product as solely Game Maker, preferring GameMaker: Studio.

Not every version of GameMaker is going to have "Studio" appended to it. They'll probably keep calling it GameMaker, however. Anybody coming into this forum already knows what the program is called, so it doesn't matter to us. Anybody looking for a new game making forum or software is going to type Game Maker into Google, not YoYoGames Community. :P


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#143 Loaf

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 01:00 AM

But, sure, I'll answer: "Loaf, you don't get to decide who's smart and nice to the rest of us!"
Negative rep is a quick way of saying "I disagree," or "you're being an ******," without having to actually type it. You're saying that's a bad thing, because "we should just talk things out, mannnn," but not everyone has the time or willpower to argue with every idiot or jerk they meet online. On the contrary, most people don't, so without negative rep, most bad posts will be upvoted by ignorant or mean people, but will be largely ignored by the rest of the community.


I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying you give negative rep to people you don't think are smart or nice? That isn't what rep is meant to be for.

It is true that nobody has the time to respond to everyone they don't get along with, but surely that means you just ignore them? To downvote them is snide way to show you care about what they say, but it also lets you avoid taking some responsibility by facing up to their post. It is the wrong way to go about it. If you have the time to go to a forum and read through posts I expect you to have the time to talk. Why else would you be here?

 

Shaun's point that "we don't even know why we're being downrepped!" doesn't make any sense to me, either. It's pretty easy to tell with simple context clues:
Were you being an a*shole? That's why you were downrepped!
Started programming two weeks ago, and you're giving "professional" advice in the Q&A section? That's why you were downrepped!
You're in the off-topic section? That's why you were downrepped! :P



Shauns point is that without communication, that person does not understand why their post is receiving a bad response. A negative rep does not guide a discussion in any meaningful way. It helps nobody.

I also find your list of reasons to downrep a pretty poor reflection on you. You think if somebody new to GameMaker wanted to contribute to the Q&A, they are doing something wrong? What problem is there in being eager to get involved and help others, even if their experience is limited?

I feel like you have done a very good job illustrating exactly why I do not like negative reputation systems. 


:duck:


#144 HopelessComposer

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 01:12 AM

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying you give negative rep to people you don't think are smart or nice?

Yes, I'm saying that people who post cruel things should be downrepped.

 

 

It is true that nobody has the time to respond to everyone they don't get along with every jerk out there, but surely that means you just ignore them? To downvote them is snide way to show you care about what they say, but it also lets you avoid taking some responsibility by facing up to their post. It is the wrong way to go about it. If you have the time to go to a forum and read through posts I expect you to have the time to talk. Why else would you be here?

I already went over this in older posts. Thanks for making me waste time mentioning it again, though.  Go back and read once more, a little more slowly. People reading through forums have the time to talk to reasonable and friendly people. The part I helpfully bolded for you is absolutely the case without a negative rep system, and is the main reason I'd like to see it stay. But you know that already. Because I already said it.

 

 

A negative rep does not guide a discussion in any meaningful way. It helps nobody.

It does guide discussion in a meaningful way. It does help. Again, I already explained why. Scroll up and read again if you want.

 

 

I also find your list of reasons to downrep a pretty poor reflection on you.

lol. :'D

 

 

I feel like you have done a very good job illustrating exactly why I do not like negative reputation systems.

I feel like you have done a very good job illustrating exactly why I do. :')

I'm sure you'll write another post twisting half of my arguments around, and completely ignoring the other half one more time, Loaf. Feel free if it makes you feel better. I won't answer again, though. I've already given you the reasons I think negative rep is a good thing multiple times. Feel free to disagree. See you! :)


Edited by HopelessComposer, 14 January 2016 - 01:14 AM.

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#145 HayManMarc

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 05:34 AM

@HopelessComposer

I don't always agree with your opinions. Maybe half the time. And often I cringe at your attitude. When this happens, no matter who authored the cringeworthy post, I will very seldom hit the down vote. It would have to be pretty egregious (or a repetitive act) to warrant the downrep. On top of that, I will hardly add my opinion on the matter, as others have already done so. In which case, I would uprep these countering comments.

So, what you've been saying here makes perfect sense to me.

I think the bottom line is, if you have an uprep, you gotta have a downrep. If you have a downrep , you gotta have an uprep. There has to be a balance. So with that said, I'm for keeping both, or getting rid of both. But having one without the other makes it worse.
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#146 HopelessComposer

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 06:22 AM

I don't always agree with your opinions. Maybe half the time. And often I cringe at your attitude.

...Thanks. X'D

I'll try being less of a jerk on the new GMC, heheh. :)

When this happens, no matter who authored the cringeworthy post, I will very seldom hit the down vote. It would have to be pretty egregious (or a repetitive act) to warrant the downrep. On top of that, I will hardly add my opinion on the matter, as others have already done so. In which case, I would uprep these countering comments.

Yar, I think most people are the same way.


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#147 Ninety

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 06:34 AM

I definitely think we should have an up vote, I don't mind too much if we get rid of the down vote, but consider this: a lot of people, particularly new or young users, don't listen to mods or figures of authority. It's amazing how quickly some people realise they're being offensive or belligerent when they see that little red number.


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#148 makerofthegames

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 07:30 AM

Yeah, by default they have a positive-only likes system. There are add ons available that support systems similar to what we have now.
 
Which, while I see the merits in the rep system as described by Dan above, I'd argue that the majority of the positive use of the rep system comes from... positive use!
 
I don't see a lot of value in dislike/downrep/automated disapproval. It's hard for the user to interpret that kind of contextless negative feedback and it isn't really necessary.

You should read Nocturne's (or whoever's) arguments back when the decision was made in the first place.

Incidentally, I now, and then, feel the following:

With the added option to minus rep posts, I find it renders the whole thing completely useless.


EDIT: IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE, at the time this topic took place, you couldn't click on the reputation a post has, and check who repped it. It was ALL ANONYMOUS. So, um..

Edited by makerofthegames, 14 January 2016 - 07:47 AM.

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#149 RekNepZ

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 07:38 AM

I'm not sure if these are still around, but if it's possible could you make some of the older boards like Staffs Choice and that review one visible again once this site goes archive?


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#150 makerofthegames

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 07:48 AM

That's a terrible idea and you should feel ashamed.
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