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Updates regarding server & licensing situation (Updated 21/09 17:19 BST)


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#1 ShaunS

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 07:42 PM

Latest Update (21/09 17:19 BST):
Hello! I have some more info to share.
 
More and more users are now getting through the license redemption process, it is slow but we're seeing a great deal of improvement. We've now been making improvements that will allow more users to download updates 
 
We've managed to make a number of improvements which will hopefully start to allow more users through the update process in Studio itself. We know a lot of people have been facing problems during the update & restart process and we've just now implemented changes to alleviate some of the issues.
 
If you see this specific error during the update process:
Dfo7Vfz.png
 
Simply dismiss this with "Ok". It is an error in obtaining non-essential information and studio should continue to update regardless of this error.
 
A lot of people have been asking for an ETA on when the issues will all be resolved, unfortunately this is currently impossible to predict but we are making and implementing constant improvements that we will hopefully allow more and more people back into the software. There may also be occasional downtime on the main website while we make adjustments.
 
We thank you for your patience so far, we realize the delays have been very long. The traffic is still very high but with just a bit more patience we expect that many more of you should now be able to hopefully complete the whole process.
 

 
Update #1 (20/09)
Hey guys, an update for those of you still struggling to redeem bundle codes / activate licenses etc.
 
While we're now much closer to a solution than before, unfortunately the problem is unlikely to be resolved tonight. We're still working hard and we've enlisted expert help from Playtech. The problem is unfortunately not as simple as web capacity that can be easily scaled/increased. There is a very old piece of our database which we had overlooked which is causing the bottleneck and which is very difficult to quickly change.
 
The pressure from the bundle is what exposed this flaw to us, unfortunately at the very worst of times.
 
We ask that for everybody's benefit, to please be patient and to not refresh or attempt to update/validate software at this time unless absolutely necessary as this adds more pressure to the bottleneck. This is especially true for redeeming the android module, as this is not needed to test or run games on Android using GMS:Pro, merely to export the final application.
 
We still wish to promote the Bundle in the meantime, due to the great efforts invested in its success not only by us but by the many game developers participating and we want as many people as possible to be able to take part in what we believe to be a fantastic and rare opportunity, despite the long waits faced in order to make full use of it.
 
Once again, I want to extend our apologies to everyone affected by this issue and reiterate that codes from the bundle will NOT expire.


Edited by ShaunS, 21 September 2015 - 04:24 PM.
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#2 Kingdom Of Gamez

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 07:45 PM

yay ! I believe on you Yo Yo game and shaun !


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#3 ExtremeSpace

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 07:56 PM

Thanks shaun and yoyogames,

For the great deal and the great support.

 

I hope you will solve it out ASAP :)


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#4 VampyreDude

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 07:56 PM

Thank you for working so hard to resolve this issue as quickly as possible.


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#5 Cpaz

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 07:59 PM

Willing to hold off for now. But I hope by tonight I can begin porting/testing projects on my crummy tablet :3 Thanks for the effort you all have put in, It's greatly appreciated.


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#6 ElectroBOX

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 08:04 PM

Thanks for the Straight-Talk update, Shaun.  Leveraging Playtech's resources is a great idea.

 

Hopefully, the promotion continues to be a success and helps the company flourish.  We're dedicated to your software and its future development!


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#7 raisins

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 08:12 PM

Can't you ship out steam keys for the meantime? The steam version works 100%.


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#8 GameGeisha

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 08:13 PM

We ask that for everybody's benefit, to please be patient and to not refresh or attempt to update/validate software at this time unless absolutely necessary as this adds more pressure to the bottleneck. This is especially true for redeeming the android module, as this is not needed to test or run games on Android using GMS:Pro, merely to export the final application.

 

We still wish to promote the Bundle in the meantime, due to the great efforts invested in its success not only by us but by the many game developers participating and we want as many people as possible to be able to take part in what we believe to be a fantastic and rare opportunity, despite the long waits faced in order to make full use of it.

 

This is just self-contradictory. On one hand you want existing customers to hold off getting the downloads they paid for. Then on the other hand, you want new customers to keep flowing in, pay and then walk into the same wall as existing customers.

 

If YoYo doesn't want this situation to continue spiralling out of control, the promotions have to wait until the system recovers. You have a big enough list of unhappy customers already. Is it responsible to add more to the list and strain the system even further?

 

GameGeisha


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#9 ElectroBOX

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 08:21 PM

Can't you ship out steam keys for the meantime? The steam version works 100%.

 

Shaun responded to this suggestion in another thread....

 

 

 

Somewhere in the Humble Bundle redemption instructions it states that Steam keys will be distributed after a certain amount of time (14 days I believe) would releasing said Steam keys earlier be a viable temporary solution since the Steam version seems to be unaffected? 

 

Unfortunately as we need to access licenses in order to generate a steam key, the current issues also make it difficult for us to do that.

 


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#10 oddbob0

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 08:26 PM

They can't just cancel the bundle halfway through. As Shaun says, that's not really a reasonable thing to do for all of us who've been invited to have our work in there y'know? You can't just stop it today and pick it back up in a few days, that's not really how contracts or bundle sites operate no matter.

 

As it stands, I can say that database flaw aside, the demand for the bundle so far has been a bit beyond what anyone expected in such a short space of time. Which is good, y'know? The database flaw will be fixed, the queue will be managed, updates will be flowing again in next to no time. And a -lot- more people will be able to have a punt at making games in a few days.

 

YoYo won't be the first company to get hit by this sort of thing and they deffo won't be the last.


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#11 DracoHandsome

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 08:38 PM

It's good to hear more concrete information on the nature of this problem. Keep up the good work!

This is just self-contradictory. On one hand you want existing customers to hold off getting the downloads they paid for. Then on the other hand, you want new customers to keep flowing in, pay and then walk into the same wall as existing customers.
 
If YoYo doesn't want this situation to continue spiralling out of control, the promotions have to wait until the system recovers. You have a big enough list of unhappy customers already. Is it responsible to add more to the list and strain the system even further?
 
GameGeisha


It isn't contradictory at all. The less people at a time pressuring the malformed database, the faster people will get their licenses. It's like asking people to stop shoving to get through the door and line up so they can all move quicker.

The promotion can't be canceled prematurely. That is extremely unprofessional and may not even be possible since Yoyo Games would need to convince Humble to cooperate.

Edited by DracoHandsome, 20 September 2015 - 08:40 PM.

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#12 icuurd12b42

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 08:39 PM

I wish there was a way so people see this the first time to log on the gmc
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#13 eyezik

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 08:43 PM

While i appreciate the update, AND the hard work youre all doing,...
My reply (nocturn) wasnt pointless, as i HAD a very valid question.

Why, did it take 4 days to aquire expert help from the company that owns you?

I didnt use any foul mouth words, didnt call anyone anything other then incompetent. So delete my reply!?

I believe i also, kindly, asked shaun to update more often, and asked for email notifications opposed to just fb and twitter. Shaun cant read now that its been deleted..
So shaun... What say you? I dont have twitter or fb and would like email notification as to whats going on..

Edited by eyezik, 20 September 2015 - 08:47 PM.

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#14 GameGeisha

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 08:51 PM

 

This is just self-contradictory. On one hand you want existing customers to hold off getting the downloads they paid for. Then on the other hand, you want new customers to keep flowing in, pay and then walk into the same wall as existing customers.
 
If YoYo doesn't want this situation to continue spiralling out of control, the promotions have to wait until the system recovers. You have a big enough list of unhappy customers already. Is it responsible to add more to the list and strain the system even further?
 
GameGeisha


It isn't contradictory at all. The less people at a time pressuring the malformed database, the faster people will get their licenses. It's like asking people to stop shoving to get through the door and line up so they can all move quicker.

The promotion can't be canceled prematurely. That is extremely unprofessional and may not even be possible since Yoyo Games would need to convince Humble to cooperate.

 

 
It is contradictory because continuing to promote the event invites more pressure on the malformed database. New customers don't know about the strain on the database the way existing customers do. They will retry until they somehow notice this topic.

 

You're right, cancelling a promised promotion is extremely unprofessional. But how exactly is adding more weight to the system and consequently delaying its recovery more professional? I'd take the lesser of two evils and hold off the promotion for now.

 
GameGeisha

 

Added note: When I said "promotion", I meant additional advertisement for the event, not the event itself. Cancelling the event would be a breach of contract and can expose YoYo to more liabilities than just the shame of not being punctual.


Edited by GameGeisha, 20 September 2015 - 08:55 PM.

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#15 Red Eagle LXIX

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 09:02 PM

Hey guys, an update for those of you still struggling to redeem bundle codes / activate licenses etc.

 

While we're now much closer to a solution than before, unfortunately the problem is unlikely to be resolved tonight. We're still working hard and we've enlisted expert help from Playtech. The problem is unfortunately not as simple as web capacity that can be easily scaled/increased. There is a very old piece of our database which we had overlooked which is causing the bottleneck and which is very difficult to quickly change.

 

The pressure from the bundle is what exposed this flaw to us, unfortunately at the very worst of times.

 

We ask that for everybody's benefit, to please be patient and to not refresh or attempt to update/validate software at this time unless absolutely necessary as this adds more pressure to the bottleneck. This is especially true for redeeming the android module, as this is not needed to test or run games on Android using GMS:Pro, merely to export the final application.

 

We still wish to promote the Bundle in the meantime, due to the great efforts invested in its success not only by us but by the many game developers participating and we want as many people as possible to be able to take part in what we believe to be a fantastic and rare opportunity, despite the long waits faced in order to make full use of it.

 

Once again, I want to extend our apologies to everyone affected by this issue and reiterate that codes from the bundle will NOT expire.

 

Proper application load and performance analysis after the past sales where you had smaller and less damaging outages would likely have identified the offending DB code and issue prior to this fiasco.  This should not have happenned.

 

I'm more than willing to offer my services as a consultant.


Edited by Red Eagle LXIX, 20 September 2015 - 09:07 PM.

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#16 DracoHandsome

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 09:03 PM

It is contradictory because continuing to promote the event invites more pressure on the malformed database. New customers don't know about the strain on the database the way existing customers do. They will retry until they somehow notice this topic.
 
You're right, cancelling a promised promotion is extremely unprofessional. But how exactly is adding more weight to the system and consequently delaying its recovery more professional? I'd take the lesser of two evils and hold off the promotion for now.
 
GameGeisha
 
Added note: When I said "promotion", I meant additional advertisement for the event, not the event itself. Cancelling the event would be a breach of contract and can expose YoYo to more liabilities than just the shame of not being punctual.


It may be folly for Yoyo Games to have faith in their customers to act logically and not emotionally, but why is it unprofessional for them to do so?

Users who have trouble redeeming a code will, like myself, search for customer support and will find the forums. If they choose to unproductively spam angry topics yelling at the staff to magic away problems, rather than find existing topics clarifying the issue, well that's their decision.

Yoyo Games is going to be at least a little screwed either way, as you can see from all the chargeback threats and conspiracy theorists, but people like that were never going to be loyal customers, and for every person screaming his fool head off on these forums, there are at least twenty more who are understanding and have never posted.
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#17 VoidByte

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 09:07 PM

 

I think people need to just calm down and give YYG the benefit of the doubt.

 

Those who bought the humblebundle are getting awesome software for cheap so unless you paid more than $12 (why would you?) I would try and be patient after all Rome wasnt built in a day.

 

 

Payed $150 for it. And why? Because its the price of the software! But i can decide to give it to "Doctors without Borders".

So i buy the software, and donate in a better future for the whole world. Thats why ;D

 

Oh and im not angry about YYG. I cant understand their way to hold things, but i trust that they give their best to bring up the Servers asap.


Edited by VoidByte, 20 September 2015 - 09:13 PM.

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#18 CodeK9

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 09:11 PM

Can't you ship out steam keys for the meantime? The steam version works 100%.

 

Shaun explained to me earlier today that they can't issue Steam keys without the license. The current issues prevent that from being a solution.


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#19 ElectroBOX

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 09:14 PM

 

Added note: When I said "promotion", I meant additional advertisement for the event, not the event itself. Cancelling the event would be a breach of contract and can expose YoYo to more liabilities than just the shame of not being punctual.

 

 

That still wouldn't achieve whatever it is you want.  The promotion has been advertised by MANY other news outlets besides YoYo.  That's why its so big.  Indie sites, major sites, Android enthusiast sites, etc have all published articles about it.  Its all over twitter, reddit.  The promotion continues to be a tremendous success and YYG will get things sorted out soon.  

 

Also, you would not only be needlessly hurting YYG, but also the Developers of the indie games offered in the bundle.  They have a stake in this too.  BTW, you can go play those games and see what else they have to offer.

 

Don't forget about the games in the bundle and how gracious it was for the developers to offer the source code.  


Edited by ElectroBOX, 20 September 2015 - 09:16 PM.

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#20 oddbob0

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 09:14 PM

You're right, cancelling a promised promotion is extremely unprofessional. But how exactly is adding more weight to the system and consequently delaying its recovery more professional? I'd take the lesser of two evils and hold off the promotion for now.

 

Because it isn't really the lesser of two evils, stopping promoting the thing wouldn't be any help but promoting it isn't really a hindrance either.

 

The thing with bundles like this is that they don't come around often and this is a once in a long while chance for YoYo/Playtech to take part in this and the same for everyone involved in the bundle. Yes, the license servers going kaputt is NotGoodTM but it's happened, it'll be fixed. No-one is happy with this particular outcome, right? Not the folks who have to work on fixing it, the folks who invited everyone in to a bundle hoping it would be the best it can be, not the people who want to redeem their keys BUT it will be fixed.

 

In the meantime, whilst the bundle is running, whilst this is a once every in a long while chance to do something like this, it'd be more stupid to not promote it, license issues and all. Seriously, the worst case from the licensing here is that people have to wait a few days to use GM or cash in licenses. It's not good but it's not the end of the world either. The worst case from stopping the bundle right now is that everyone involved in the bundle gets stiffed out of a few quid and no-one is coming out of this a millionaire as it is y'know? And everyone has to wait another year or so to get another shot at it.

 

I'm not sure what YoYo stopping promoting the bundle is supposed to achieve? YoYo are only doing a few tweets and whatever about it anyway, the rest is out of their hands.


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#21 Red Eagle LXIX

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 09:23 PM

 

It is contradictory because continuing to promote the event invites more pressure on the malformed database. New customers don't know about the strain on the database the way existing customers do. They will retry until they somehow notice this topic.
 
You're right, cancelling a promised promotion is extremely unprofessional. But how exactly is adding more weight to the system and consequently delaying its recovery more professional? I'd take the lesser of two evils and hold off the promotion for now.
 
GameGeisha
 
Added note: When I said "promotion", I meant additional advertisement for the event, not the event itself. Cancelling the event would be a breach of contract and can expose YoYo to more liabilities than just the shame of not being punctual.

It may be folly for Yoyo Games to have faith in their customers to act logically and not emotionally, but why is it unprofessional for them to do so?
 

It is unprofessional because there should have been measures in place to prevent this issue.

 

The servers for the account/license system having issues is not new during sales for Yoyo Games, even when they are the ones hosting and performing the sale.

The sales that occur on Humble Bundle are always widely advertised and generate a lot of load beyond what Yoyo Games would garner on their own.

 

Performance and load analysis of the past sales that had these issues should have revealed this problem since it occurs to some level even during Yoyo Games own hosted sales.

Performance and load analysis as part of capacity planning for a massive influx of new users should have revealed this problem since it occurs to some level even during Yoyo Games own hosted sales.

 

Asking customers not to use the products they paid for (especially if they might have deadlines, etc) because Yoyo Games failed to be proactive in handling an issue that was likely to occur based on all prior knowledge is absolutely unprofessional.


Edited by Red Eagle LXIX, 20 September 2015 - 09:26 PM.

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#22 nanocosmo

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 09:30 PM

Speaking as a Bundle buyer I think you should have shut down new registrations so at least the people who already own the software (and payed hundreds of dollars for it!) can use it until the DB problem is resolved.

 

Most Bundle buyers will wait patiently until you've sorted out the server overload issue, I know I will, but I have to say that as a potential GMS developer the fact that longstanding paying supporters of your software can be locked out of it for several days due to DRM issues does not bode well.  


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#23 Red Eagle LXIX

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 09:31 PM

Speaking as a Bundle buyer I think you should have shut down new registrations so at least the people who already own the software (and payed hundreds of dollars for it!) can use it until the DB problem is resolved.

 

Most Bundle buyers will wait patiently until you've sorted out the server overload issue, I know I will, but I have to say that as a potential GMS developer the fact that longstanding paying supporters of your software can be locked out of it for several days due to DRM issues does not bode well.  

Thank you.  Most understanding post from a new user with regards to the feelings of existing customers I've seen.


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#24 CodeK9

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 09:34 PM

 

 

It is contradictory because continuing to promote the event invites more pressure on the malformed database. New customers don't know about the strain on the database the way existing customers do. They will retry until they somehow notice this topic.
 
You're right, cancelling a promised promotion is extremely unprofessional. But how exactly is adding more weight to the system and consequently delaying its recovery more professional? I'd take the lesser of two evils and hold off the promotion for now.
 
GameGeisha
 
Added note: When I said "promotion", I meant additional advertisement for the event, not the event itself. Cancelling the event would be a breach of contract and can expose YoYo to more liabilities than just the shame of not being punctual.

It may be folly for Yoyo Games to have faith in their customers to act logically and not emotionally, but why is it unprofessional for them to do so?
 

It is unprofessional because there should have been measures in place to prevent this issue.

 

The servers for the account/license system having issues is not new during sales for Yoyo Games, even when they are the ones hosting and performing the sale.

The sales that occur on Humble Bundle are always widely advertised and generate a lot of load beyond what Yoyo Games would garner on their own.

 

Performance and load analysis of the past sales that had these issues should have revealed this problem since it occurs to some level even during Yoyo Games own hosted sales.

Performance and load analysis as part of capacity planning for a massive influx of new users should have revealed this problem since it occurs to some level even during Yoyo Games own hosted sales.

 

Asking customers not to use the products they paid for (especially if they might have deadlines, etc) because Yoyo Games failed to be proactive in handling an issue that was likely to occur based on all prior knowledge is absolutely unprofessional.

 

Given the fact that we don't know what the exact issue is how can anyone outside of the people that are currently working on it say there should or could have been measures in place to prevent it? 
If all problems could be foreseen and prevented a lot of people in the IT field would be out of work.


Edited by CodeK9, 20 September 2015 - 09:38 PM.

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#25 DracoHandsome

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 09:35 PM

It is unprofessional because there should have been measures in place to prevent this issue.


Your logic is flawed and stubborn.

It may have been unprofessional to fail to notice this database error earlier -- not that anyone other than those actually working on this database can fairly judge this -- but that has no bearing on the ethics of future decisions. What has happened has happened.

What Yoyo Games can do now is make the best of a bad situation -- and regardless of whether that situation is their own fault or not, their decisions in handling it cannot fairly be viewed in light of previous failures.

The servers for the account/license system having issues is not new during sales for Yoyo Games, even when they are the ones hosting and performing the sale.
The sales that occur on Humble Bundle are always widely advertised and generate a lot of load beyond what Yoyo Games would garner on their own.
 
Performance and load analysis of the past sales that had these issues should have revealed this problem since it occurs to some level even during Yoyo Games own hosted sales.


And that's all fine and dandy, but they didn't (because analysis is not magical), and we are now dealing with the present. Yoyo Games has identified the issue. Yoyo Games is working to fix this issue. To ask anything more of them right now, and especially to continue to chastise them for perceived past failures, is pointless and petty.

Asking customers not to use the products they paid for (especially if they might have deadlines, etc) because Yoyo Games failed to be proactive in handling an issue that was likely to occur based on all prior knowledge is absolutely unprofessional.

What you're saying is that Yoyo Games should have been psychic and fixed an issue they did not have the means to fix. You are also still rating the ethics of a current decision by mixing it with the ethics of a previous one, and that is dishonest thinking.

The best thing that Yoyo Games can do right now is leave the Humble Bundle quite alone, fix the issue as quickly as they can, and add an alert message to relevant pages alerting users that the inability to redeem keys is known, that expected downtime is x-y days, and that Humble vouchers will remain valid after the Humble sale expires.
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#26 icuurd12b42

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 09:44 PM

Yes, and I'm sure the guy in charge of all this is crying for his mama right now.

I personally been there. did all the analysis, did the poisson distribution to calculate what the expected transaction per hours would be, setup the servers, tweaked the software to allow 5 times the expected traffic. Ran load stress software, emulated 100 transaction per minute (it was the 90's) ran it for 5 hours. all looked good.

Everyone leave for the weekend, one guy remained. on sunday night everything started to crash. 8 load balanced servers... 8 databases, mirrored...

Turns out there was a sql query which was missing an index (the index was on the wrong field) and as the amount of records grew this call exponentially grew slower and slower to the point where one call took 20 seconds instead or a mere few ms.

So call yoyo unprofessional, make the statement they did not do their due diligence, go find the yoyo employe in charge of the web server software and beat him with a baseball bat. point is you are only making speculations without any knowledge aside what you would have done.

I've been stuck with MS for a month and a half because they have a problem with their database. a month and a half!!! **** happens

 

Speaking as a Bundle buyer I think you should have shut down new registrations so at least the people who already own the software (and payed hundreds of dollars for it!) can use it until the DB problem is resolved.
 
Most Bundle buyers will wait patiently until you've sorted out the server overload issue, I know I will, but I have to say that as a potential GMS developer the fact that longstanding paying supporters of your software can be locked out of it for several days due to DRM issues does not bode well.

Yep. it would be a good solution if possible to stop people from downloading the installer temporarily...

Edited by icuurd12b42, 20 September 2015 - 09:51 PM.

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#27 CodeK9

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 09:49 PM

Yes, and I'm sure the guy in charge of all this is crying for his mama right now.

I personally been there. did all the analysis, did the poisson distribution to calculate what the expected transaction per hours would be, setup the servers, tweaked the software to allow 5 times the expected traffic. Ran load stress software, emulated 100 transaction per minute (it was the 90's) ran it for 5 hours. all looked good.

Everyone leave for the weekend, one guy remained. on sunday night everything started to crash. 8 load balanced servers... 8 databases, mirrored...

Turns out there was a sql query which was missing an index (the index was on the wrong field) and as the amount of records grew this call exponentially grew slower and slower to the point were on call to 20 seconds instead.

So call yoyo unprofessional, make the statement they did not do their due diligence, go find the yoyo employe in charge of the web server software and beat him with a baseball bat. point is you are only making speculations without any knowledge aside what you would have done.

I've been stuck with MS for a month and a half because they have a problem with their database. a month and a half!!! **** happens

 

Speaking as a Bundle buyer I think you should have shut down new registrations so at least the people who already own the software (and payed hundreds of dollars for it!) can use it until the DB problem is resolved.
 
Most Bundle buyers will wait patiently until you've sorted out the server overload issue, I know I will, but I have to say that as a potential GMS developer the fact that longstanding paying supporters of your software can be locked out of it for several days due to DRM issues does not bode well.

Yep. it would be a good solution if possible to stop people from downloading the installer temporarily...

 

 

This gave me system administrator PTSD.  :blink:


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#28 Braffolk

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 09:50 PM

Glad this issue is getting resolved! :)

Getting $500 worth of software for $12 is worth the wait I guess.

 

It would be nice if all of the new users either on humblebundle or visiting the yoyogames website would be able to see this to avoid creating even more frustration.


Edited by Braffolk, 20 September 2015 - 09:50 PM.

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#29 Red Eagle LXIX

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 09:52 PM

 

It is unprofessional because there should have been measures in place to prevent this issue.

Your logic is flawed and stubborn.

It may have been unprofessional to fail to notice this database error earlier -- not that anyone other than those actually working on this database can fairly judge this -- but that has no bearing on the ethics of future decisions. What has happened has happened.

What Yoyo Games can do now is make the best of a bad situation -- and regardless of whether that situation is their own fault or not, their decisions in handling it cannot fairly be viewed in light of previous failures.

So you're saying you can't judge a company by how they have acted in  the past (or in this case a recurring history)?  Then by what criteria do you evaluate how a company will perform in the future if not using their past works/efforts/performance/treatment of customers?  Or was this some delusional straw man way to say don't blame the company?

 


The servers for the account/license system having issues is not new during sales for Yoyo Games, even when they are the ones hosting and performing the sale.
The sales that occur on Humble Bundle are always widely advertised and generate a lot of load beyond what Yoyo Games would garner on their own.
 
Performance and load analysis of the past sales that had these issues should have revealed this problem since it occurs to some level even during Yoyo Games own hosted sales.


And that's all fine and dandy, but they didn't (because analysis is not magical), and we are now dealing with the present. Yoyo Games has identified the issue. Yoyo Games is working to fix this issue. To ask anything more of them right now, and especially to continue to chastise them for perceived past failures, is pointless and petty.

 

Correct, "they didn't" and that is exactly why we are in the situation we are in now.

To ask them to be sure they won't be so lax about their testing and procedures in the future while making known they failed to do as they should is not pointless.  The goal there is to improve how they treat their customers.  Posts defending failures to act reasonably and in the interest of the consumer are certainly pointless and petty as they don't even work toward future improvement of the product or how the business treats their customers.

 

 


Asking customers not to use the products they paid for (especially if they might have deadlines, etc) because Yoyo Games failed to be proactive in handling an issue that was likely to occur based on all prior knowledge is absolutely unprofessional.

What you're saying is that Yoyo Games should have been psychic and fixed an issue they did not have the means to fix. You are also still rating the ethics of a current decision by mixing it with the ethics of a previous one, and that is dishonest thinking.

The best thing that Yoyo Games can do right now is leave the Humble Bundle quite alone, fix the issue as quickly as they can, and add an alert message to relevant pages alerting users that the inability to redeem keys is known, that expected downtime is x-y days, and that Humble vouchers will remain valid after the Humble sale expires.

 

 

I am mixing no ethics from a previous situation and this one.  I am stating flat out, they should have analyzed this issue in the past when it occurred.  I am stating flat out, such analysis in the past would likely have prevented this issue.  The only dishonest thinking related to this is that their lack of doing such analysis on past outages means that because they are working on it now everythign is fine.  That is dishonest thinking because everythign is not fine.  Yoyo Games has disrepected its customers in a most egregious way.

 

Your best situation fails to account for customers of Yoyo Games on dealines, that may have to actually use the product they paid for long before this fiasco that need to do silly things like switch licenses because even though it has been requested many times, combining export licenses has been something Yoyo Games did not feel they should invest time in.  Just as they felt they should not invest time in the analysis of their past load issues.  If they had done both, or either of these things the load would be lower on their system and the problem would not have been as bad or even have occurred at all.


Edited by Red Eagle LXIX, 20 September 2015 - 09:53 PM.

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#30 raisins

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 09:52 PM

... I will probably never use this software for any serious development ...

I would.


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#31 DracoHandsome

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 09:55 PM

Your best situation fails to account for customers of Yoyo Games on dealines

Except it doesn't.

Simply by placing an alert explaining the issue where everyone can see it conveniently, you will drop the number of new registration requests -- not completely of course -- and thus increase the chance of your existing customers' monthly validations going through.

Once one of them goes through, they won't need to do it again for a month, ergo your professionals on deadlines will be that much closer to being able to work again.
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#32 Red Eagle LXIX

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 10:01 PM

Yes, and I'm sure the guy in charge of all this is crying for his mama right now.

I personally been there. did all the analysis, did the poisson distribution to calculate what the expected transaction per hours would be, setup the servers, tweaked the software to allow 5 times the expected traffic. Ran load stress software, emulated 100 transaction per minute (it was the 90's) ran it for 5 hours. all looked good.

Everyone leave for the weekend, one guy remained. on sunday night everything started to crash. 8 load balanced servers... 8 databases, mirrored...

Turns out there was a sql query which was missing an index (the index was on the wrong field) and as the amount of records grew this call exponentially grew slower and slower to the point where one call took 20 seconds instead or a mere few ms.

So call yoyo unprofessional, make the statement they did not do their due diligence, go find the yoyo employe in charge of the web server software and beat him with a baseball bat. point is you are only making speculations without any knowledge aside what you would have done.

I've been stuck with MS for a month and a half because they have a problem with their database. a month and a half!!! **** happens

 

Speaking as a Bundle buyer I think you should have shut down new registrations so at least the people who already own the software (and payed hundreds of dollars for it!) can use it until the DB problem is resolved.
 
Most Bundle buyers will wait patiently until you've sorted out the server overload issue, I know I will, but I have to say that as a potential GMS developer the fact that longstanding paying supporters of your software can be locked out of it for several days due to DRM issues does not bode well.

Yep. it would be a good solution if possible to stop people from downloading the installer temporarily...

 

Not going to go to deep here, but if the testing failed to reveal the lack of an index then the testing was flawed.  Clearly you weren't creating new data during said to test, that is why the test failed to identify the index issue.  That is a flawed performance test if the natural order of part of the application would be to add such data to the table.


 

Your best situation fails to account for customers of Yoyo Games on dealines

Except it doesn't.

Simply by placing an alert explaining the issue where everyone can see it conveniently, you will drop the number of new registration requests -- not completely of course -- and thus increase the chance of your existing customers' monthly validations going through.

Once one of them goes through, they won't need to do it again for a month, ergo your professionals on deadlines will be that much closer to being able to work again.

 

FYI, existing customers need to be able to reach the market, switch licenses, etc, depending on what they are doing and working on.  It is a bit more than just a simply monthly validation if you've got some active development going on.  Especially if you're had to deal with the multiple exports on different pro licenses issues for any length of time.  Part of that goes to other load related issues and licensing issues that have been complained about for ages that Yoyo Games has still not resolved or even worked on, and that actually add to the load and issue occurring now.

 

I will agree with you, lowering the load created by said new customers might make the system viable enough to be used by existing customers now. 


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#33 Lonewolff

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 10:02 PM

... I will probably never use this software for any serious development ...

I would.

I am :)
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#34 DracoHandsome

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 10:02 PM

Not going to go to deep here, but if the testing failed to reveal the lack of an index then the testing was flawed.


tumblr_inline_n9bmekS0Cd1qego7a.jpg

I really don't see why you're still going on about this.

Yoyo Games has identified the issue. Late? Maybe. But what exactly are you trying to do about that now? There's absolutely no point to continuing to harp on about when and how they should have fixed this sooner.
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#35 Red Eagle LXIX

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 10:05 PM

 

Not going to go to deep here, but if the testing failed to reveal the lack of an index then the testing was flawed.


tumblr_inline_n9bmekS0Cd1qego7a.jpg

I really don't see why you're still going on about this.

Yoyo Games has identified the issue. Late? Maybe. But what exactly are you trying to do about that now? There's absolutely no point to continuing to harp on about when and how they should have fixed this sooner.

 

Hahaha, in your zeal to chastise me for pointing out this issue was 100% preventable, you quoted what is essentailly an Off-Topic reply to an semi-Off-Topic reply.  You failed to read it, or comprehend what was being discussed.  Good work on the attack. 

For those that don't want to work backward, DracoHandsome quoted a comment related to someone else's performance analysis of their own product.  Not a performance anlysis related to this issue. 


Edited by Red Eagle LXIX, 20 September 2015 - 10:07 PM.

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#36 icuurd12b42

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 10:05 PM

Not going to go to deep here, but if the testing failed to reveal the lack of an index then the testing was flawed.  Clearly you weren't creating new data during said to test, that is why the test failed to identify the index issue.  That is a flawed performance test if the natural order of part of the application would be to add such data to the table.


I would have had to have run the test for 2 days for it to start happening. it's not like the slowdown was noticeable, beyond a certain point boom, **** is too large to cache the indexing become more important. **** happens.

Frankly my friend I think you lack the experience of getting your **** flung back in your face from something you would not foresee, it is quite a humbling experience.
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#37 Nocturne

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 10:06 PM

Oh, come ON you two! AGAIN????

 

Here, let me help you guys sort this out once and for all:

 


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#38 DracoHandsome

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 10:10 PM

Oh, come ON you two! AGAIN????

I don't see how that's surprising, considering that we both have an ongoing interest in this server issue, and a harsh disagreement in how to discuss it.
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#39 Red Eagle LXIX

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 10:16 PM

 

Not going to go to deep here, but if the testing failed to reveal the lack of an index then the testing was flawed.  Clearly you weren't creating new data during said to test, that is why the test failed to identify the index issue.  That is a flawed performance test if the natural order of part of the application would be to add such data to the table.


I would have had to have run the test for 2 days for it to start happening. it's not like the slowdown was noticeable, beyond a certain point boom, **** is too large to cache the indexing become more important. **** happens.

Frankly my friend I think you lack the experience of getting your **** flung back in your face from something you would not foresee, it is quite a humbling experience.

 

Oh, I have indeed missed things over the past 2 decades.  I do understand that, and based on your description of the issue you faced I can sympathize and may have missed it myself (without seeing the monitoring data, and the test scenario I won't say I would or would not have).

 

However, in Yoyo Games case there was already a known issue that had been experienced multiple times in a production environment that had caused such outages to the minor level that have been seen before for the account and license systems,  then analysis would continue until the cause had been identified.  To leave a known issue until it just becomes to great a problem is backwards to any kind of performance work.

 

The Yoyo Games issue fits that category and as such would not have gotten flung back in my face as it would not have occurred.


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#40 ElectroBOX

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 10:36 PM

However, in Yoyo Games case there was already a known issue that had been experienced multiple times in a production environment that had caused such outages to the minor level that have been seen before for the account and license systems,  then analysis would continue until the cause had been identified.  To leave a known issue until it just becomes to great a problem is backwards to any kind of performance work.

 

The Yoyo Games issue fits that category and as such would not have gotten flung back in my face as it would not have occurred.

 

With all do respect did you read Shaun's statement carefully?
 

There is a very old piece of our database which we had overlooked which is causing the bottleneck and which is very difficult to quickly change.

 

The pressure from the bundle is what exposed this flaw to us, unfortunately at the very worst of times.

 

 

They've honed up to the oversight and have promised to resolve it.  Whatever issues occurred in the past we know this - YYG is still in business and eventually makes things right.

 

You cannot expect them to go into more detail than what he's already divulged.  By the quoted statement it is clear, to me at least, the issue was not something easily foreseeable.  So at this point, a REASONABLE disgruntled customer should accept it and wait.


Edited by ElectroBOX, 20 September 2015 - 10:40 PM.

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#41 icuurd12b42

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 10:37 PM

However, in Yoyo Games case there was already a known issue that had been experienced multiple times in a production environment that had caused such outages to the minor level that have been seen before for the account and license systems


Indeed, experience has told me to wait a few days before getting the "new update". but on the other hand I never noticed anyone complaining about it... at least to the point of making it an issue.
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#42 Lonewolff

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 10:47 PM

 

However, in Yoyo Games case there was already a known issue that had been experienced multiple times in a production environment that had caused such outages to the minor level that have been seen before for the account and license systems,  then analysis would continue until the cause had been identified.  To leave a known issue until it just becomes to great a problem is backwards to any kind of performance work.

 

 

Much easier to be a 'back seat driver', isn't it?

 

If they handed the 'keys' to you and said 'fix it', I am pretty confident you'd poo your pants.

 

How about we lay off Yoyo Games and be thankful for what they have offered here. In a months time, when this has all blown over, everyone will be all giggles and smiles :)


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#43 eyezik

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 10:54 PM

And in two or three months, we'll be back right where we are. Is MY point. (and i think others, as this ISNT the first time yoyo has had issues)(very loosely saying2/3months, likely...whenever GMS2 comes about)

I seriously hope someone in dundee is taking notes on how to avoid another disaster in the future. MY gripe, isnt completely on the server/db issue, but the overall professional approach to resolving the issues.

Ie.. Make a thread, inviting everyone and anyone to reply with *****es, gripes, complaints etc and then deleting replies as you wish, or whenever someone calls you out, is rather unprofessional.
If you wish not to read how people truely feel, due to your own actions, make topics 'closed'
..ie.. Not letting topics fill up with angry replies, maybe leavingam employee docked to the GMC.
Maybe more updates, sooner, more often, on the gmc and NOT just oN twitter or fb.

Edit: how many times have i started topics, trying to point out the unprofessional demeanor of yoyo? Ive let those times slide, ignored n forgot em.. Untill now, the pot boils again

Edited by eyezik, 20 September 2015 - 11:04 PM.

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#44 Lonewolff

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 10:57 PM

This doesn't happen every two or three months though. People are making this out to be a weekly issue.


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#45 Red Eagle LXIX

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 11:02 PM

 

However, in Yoyo Games case there was already a known issue that had been experienced multiple times in a production environment that had caused such outages to the minor level that have been seen before for the account and license systems,  then analysis would continue until the cause had been identified.  To leave a known issue until it just becomes to great a problem is backwards to any kind of performance work.

 

The Yoyo Games issue fits that category and as such would not have gotten flung back in my face as it would not have occurred.

 

With all do respect did you read Shaun's statement carefully?
 

There is a very old piece of our database which we had overlooked which is causing the bottleneck and which is very difficult to quickly change.

 

The pressure from the bundle is what exposed this flaw to us, unfortunately at the very worst of times.

 

 

They've honed up to the oversight and have promised to resolve it.  Whatever issues occurred in the past we know this - YYG is still in business and eventually makes things right.

 

You cannot expect them to go into more detail than what he's already divulged.  By the quoted statement it is clear, to me at least, the issue was not something easily foreseeable.  So at this point, a REASONABLE disgruntled customer should accept it and wait.

 

Yes, I did read it carefully, did you?  Did you also account for the past in your reading of those statements?

They have not owned up to the oversight.  The oversight was letting a known problem continue without analysis and correction until a point where it became breaking for all of their cusomers for an extended period.  Owning up to it would be admitting to a failure to look at the past lower load outages at that time.  While they did say they overlooked the issue, there is nothign there about in the future they will actually work toward better/proper performance testing for their DRM account/license system.

 

I tend to disagree with your conclusion as well.  They admit they overlooked it (as in not tested enough). 

It is an issue that has occurred on multiple occasions in the past after updates and commonly with past sales hosted by Yoyo Games themselves. 

That alone means it was easily foreseeable as likely to occur.

It is as easily foreseeable as during the Steam sale this fall, there will periods after every sale update (8 or 12 hours depending on how often they will update this fall sale) for at least few minutes but as miuch as an hour where after the sale item updates and people viewing/rushing it will cause Steam to be unresponsive because Valve always under servers the store for their sales.  Why is that first hour the worst, because of folks hoping to get in on any mispriced items, get the deals quicker, etc?

 

As to reasonable:  I've not been saying Yoyo are incompetent or bad folks (as some have made out like I am).  I've not been threatening charge-backs, etc (not that it would help much given my first couple of licenses are years old and much more costly than anything anyone bought in the sale).  Not sure what else you might be referring to here.

 

 

---------- Merged Posts ----------

 

 

 

 

However, in Yoyo Games case there was already a known issue that had been experienced multiple times in a production environment that had caused such outages to the minor level that have been seen before for the account and license systems,  then analysis would continue until the cause had been identified.  To leave a known issue until it just becomes to great a problem is backwards to any kind of performance work.

 

 

Much easier to be a 'back seat driver', isn't it?

 

If they handed the 'keys' to you and said 'fix it', I am pretty confident you'd poo your pants.

 

How about we lay off Yoyo Games and be thankful for what they have offered here. In a months time, when this has all blown over, everyone will be all giggles and smiles :)

 

 

This doesn't happen every two or three months though. People are making this out to be a weekly issue.

 

No, but it has started getting worse in the past year.  That is what prompted an account creation in August, and it is why after YEARS of owning the product I posted for the first time in the forum this month.  That alone should be a big red flag to anyone working there.  Customers who've had no complaints for years have registered and started to complain due to the way things have been running. 

 

Check my Steam profile you'll see I've had GM:S Pro for years on there as well.


Edited by Red Eagle LXIX, 20 September 2015 - 11:05 PM.

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#46 hippyman

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 11:08 PM

Literally all I see is just the same thing being said over and over again. These topics should just be locked and there should be a topic that NOBODY can reply too and is solely for updates from YYG letting us know what's going on. This is the worst case of beating a dead horse I have EVER seen.


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#47 GenoDoucette

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 11:10 PM

Stop slapping eachother. Everyone who is talking in this thread (excluding YoYoGames people) aren't actually helping.. at all.


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#48 Red Eagle LXIX

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 11:13 PM

Lets just be thankful YYG have raked in enough cash in the past couple of days that they can now afford to get the issue fixed.

Let us all hope they not only use the money to fix the issue but to be properly proactive about some of the issue that have been complained about that contribute to this issue (example having to switch between pro licenses because the license application can't create a composite license out of all available licenses and export modules on the account that covers everything at once).  Keeping updates a few days or a week apart from sales.  Sure I could list more but we don't want to be here all year reading things that could be improved besides many of the improvements I'd suggest are actually suggestions that are in some cases years old with many examples all over the forum.


Edited by Red Eagle LXIX, 20 September 2015 - 11:14 PM.

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#49 rogzoo

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 11:14 PM

Sorry the servers aren't working for everyone, but really I'm enjoying some unexpected family time, I'm sure there are tired yoyo staffers that wish they could say the same. Best wishes to all and to all a good night   :rolleyes:


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#50 kupo15

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 11:58 PM

The irony is that I will probably never use this software for any serious development, good job it was only £7.95 but on the other hand that money could have been better spent on the unity asset store.

 

Oh well you live and learn I suppose.

I'm not sure why you say that. Studio is probably the best engine out there to make professional 2D games with and offers an enormous deal of control with creating personalized game engines. I find it funny how you are insinuating that spending 7.95E on general game assets from a store will help you create a professional level game than any software as robust as this. I think I find that the most insulting remark I've seen thus far. I bought Pro for $50 and the Android for I think $80 back in an earlier sale. I would have been thrilled to get that same deal for $6.00 and would have dealt with the server issues for that price.

 

I know it sucks for everyone but the only people that really have a legitimate complaints are people like me who can't develop anymore until this gets situated. Allowing existing users a couple days head start on updating would have been very easy and would have made the situation much better.

 

This lack of foresight by Yoyo is what I find upsetting the most but I'm ok patiently waiting until this goes away because my experience with them and their product has been top notch. This is the first major hiccup like this I've experienced in my 10+ years with Gamemaker


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