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#1 round

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 05:11 PM

Hi, After watching the video, I think that YoYo Compiler looks

professional and wonderful. Well done.!!!!

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=i3ECuXBc7Ks

:)


Edited by round, 31 May 2013 - 05:14 PM.

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#2 logstar6

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 05:30 PM

Wow, yes this does look amazing! :biggrin:

 

If I understand correctly from the video it will be released with 1.2?


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#3 benf2

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 05:33 PM

Can anyone explain what is that compiler and what does it means?

Will it boost particle use specifically or everything?

Thanks.


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#4 Overloaded

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 05:36 PM

Wow, yes this does look amazing! :biggrin:
 
If I understand correctly from the video it will be released with 1.2?

 
Yes it will be released at v1.2, which will come to us soon, perhaps in a few weeks, according to Sandy Duncan's twitter page.
https://twitter.com/...347937815138305
 

Can anyone explain what is that compiler and what does it means?
Will it boost particle use specifically or everything?
Thanks.

 

Check out these 3 links, the might help you.

 

http://gmnewsbite.ne...-power-of-llvm/

 

http://gmnewsbite.ne...-compiler-gmlc/

 

http://gmnewsbite.ne...amemaker-users/


Edited by Overloaded, 31 May 2013 - 05:38 PM.

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#5 benf2

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 05:52 PM

All that stuff sounds heavenly


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#6 NakedPaulToast

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 06:07 PM

What's particularly encouraging is the side by side comparison of the traditional runner (~ 2000 particles @15 FPS) vs the compiled (~50,000 particles @30 FPS). 

 

Other interesting tidbits from Sandy's twitter feed:

 

  • @metkis sssshhhh...I thought the vector graphics was a secret ?
  • @TimBuchalka @metkis GameMaker:Studio for OSX. should happen before the end of the year.

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#7 Mr. RPG

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 06:11 PM

 

What's particularly encouraging is the side by side comparison of the traditional runner (~ 2000 particles @15 FPS) vs the compiled (~50,000 particles @30 FPS). 

 

Other interesting tidbits from Sandy's twitter feed:

 

  • @metkis sssshhhh...I thought the vector graphics was a secret ?
  • @TimBuchalka @metkis GameMaker:Studio for OSX. should happen before the end of the year.

 

Studio for OS X sounds really awesome, however I think Windows users should get it for free (or a huge discount). If it does come out, then you should be able to use it as a "personal" install. I don't have a Mac yet, but I am saving up for a MacBook and will have one by the end of the summer.

 

Regarding 1.2, I'm actually quite surprised it has taken this long. I thought we would have gotten it on GameMaker: Studio's first birthday, but at least we have confirmation that it is coming "in a few weeks". Although knowing YoYoGames and 1.1, that could mean almost two months.


Edited by Mr. RPG, 31 May 2013 - 06:13 PM.

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#8 Andy

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 11:08 PM

GM: Studio 1.2 is looking great! :thumbsup:


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#9 Manuel777

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 11:37 PM

Saw this on twitter, excellent new, and something we were all expecting to see since Studio 1.0.

 

I want it now!!  :P

 

 

PS: The Roadmap needs a good cleanup and then an update... 


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#10 Lune

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 11:48 PM

I saw this earlier after one of the YoYos retweeted it. Super cool stuff! It's certainly an exciting time to be a GameMaker developer.
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#11 JonathanPzone

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 05:52 AM

I was very tempted to just post the word "now" repeatedly. However, being a better man I shall merely think it loudly in my head.

 

Finally, I've been waiting for this day ever since 5.3. Great job YoYo! I can't wait to see it in my hands. Civilizations shall crumble.


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#12 Kapser

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 07:31 PM

I'm so hyped, this is great!


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#13 DanRedux

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 03:03 AM

Something that may have been missed- Those are SIMULATED particles. I interpret that to mean they are being emulated using GML, not the built-in particle system. 

 

If I'm right, then 30,000 simulated objects at 30fps is really quite amazing.


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#14 MishMash

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 10:19 AM

If objects are faster, then we'll be able to use true object oriented style programming, rather than the work arounds, whilst these methods are inefficient, they make programming even faster, like in Java, using objects for almost everything is just awesome.

Like the ability to make inventory objects which can be given to a number of instances! 
I would love faster processing so much! 

From what i've seen in the video, this seems to good to be true xD! I feel that i may be dissapointed and overthink my expectation.
Although what would be really cool, is to be able to disable GM's background object code, so i mean the things like the speed, gravity, collision processing that GM does on all objects, if you don't want it, as alot of the time i find myself not using those functions on control objects which dont physically move around in game, and i feel that its a waste of processing power, although its probably necessary to make GM work as it does!

Really excited for this update though, if the speed change is significant enough, im going to be porting all my projects to Studio, not so fussed about the graphics not being any faster, but more processing power, ill take that!


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#15 Mr. RPG

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 08:57 PM

Something that may have been missed- Those are SIMULATED particles. I interpret that to mean they are being emulated using GML, not the built-in particle system. 

 

If I'm right, then 30,000 simulated objects at 30fps is really quite amazing.

Where does it say that anywhere?


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#16 lordvtp

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 09:41 PM

If you read about that test app for android you see there they said they used worst case scenario type gml using objects in order to stress test. 


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#17 makerofthegames

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 06:10 AM

Wait, 30000 instances? Objects? What? WHAT? *insert hyperbolic reaction cutting to wacky 80s blank beeping television screen*
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#18 GenoDoucette

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 06:33 AM

The video shows it handling a lot of particles, but does that mean it will be able to handle more active objects as well?

That's a good question, I hope it does!
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#19 Manuel777

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 06:54 AM

 

The video shows it handling a lot of particles, but does that mean it will be able to handle more active objects as well?

That's a good question, I hope it does!

 

 

Well, in theory, this affects everything processing-related, not only particles.. particles were always sucky to deal with because they tend to lag GM pretty badly when used in big ammounts, they are good stress-testers :)

 

Think the GM runner as a cup (or something that gets filled with something else). This cup is built in native code, and is static (doesnt change,is the same for all games, and is built in C++). Right now, to make our games we just fill this cup with commands thrown into the cup (theese commands, combined with the resources comform our game), the cup then reads those commands when its loaded and then interprets them while its running, and ta-da! we can play our game.. But this is terribly inneficient, especially when the runner has to handle those GML commands and 'translate' them! 

 

So now, the compiler will create native code only, no more interpreted GML commands in our standalone releases. I am yet to know if there will be any runner at all trough, that would be simply amazing, but I supposse there will always be a 'static' layer for stuff like GameMaker.. MAYBE, (and this is only a big presumtion), the YYC will create native code for the runner to handle in its own language, making it faster for it to read/handle.

 

I hope this all gets clearified when the YYC comes out, Im looking forward to see it in action!


Edited by Manuel777, 04 June 2013 - 06:57 AM.

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#20 mr magnus

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 11:27 AM

Ok, the first thing to do with v 1.2:
create a blank project;
Create an object that creates a bunch of little particle objects.
See how many objects I can cram in there before the FPS drops.


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#21 MishMash

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 01:27 PM

I want this update so badly xD! I want to see what i can do with this extra power :D!


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#22 theweirdn8

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 03:38 PM

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#23 icuurd12b42

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 04:11 PM

 

Something that may have been missed- Those are SIMULATED particles. I interpret that to mean they are being emulated using GML, not the built-in particle system. 

 

If I'm right, then 30,000 simulated objects at 30fps is really quite amazing.

Where does it say that anywhere?

 

 

More info in the youtube video page

 

This shows the difference the new "YoYo Compiler" makes to a working example. This particular example has been purpose built to stress the language and push GML to breaking point. It processes all the particles manually and helps give a real figure to how much we can expect the actual code execution to speed up.


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#24 GameRoom

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 12:31 AM

Does this speed boost affect HTML5? As absolutely amazing as that would be, it would mean that I'd have to convert my entire game from 30 to 60 fps since it can handle it now. That will take forever. Ugggh.


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#25 MishMash

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 02:14 AM

I thought that HTML5 already compiled down to raw Javascript anyway? So im almost 100% that no, it doesn't affect HTML5.


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#26 Mr. RPG

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 04:33 AM

Curious, some of the developers said that there will be an option to toggle it off and on, why is this? Could it break things?


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#27 Manuel777

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 01:46 PM

Curious, some of the developers said that there will be an option to toggle it off and on, why is this? Could it break things?

 

Maybe because its still under testing for mainstream.. I wouldnt like it to be buggy and being completely blocked off compiling all my games  :thumbsup:


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#28 NakedPaulToast

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 01:52 PM

Does this speed boost affect HTML5? As absolutely amazing as that would be, it would mean that I'd have to convert my entire game from 30 to 60 fps since it can handle it now. That will take forever. Ugggh.

 

 

All platforms with use LLVM, with the (current) exception being HTML5. We're not sure if we'll use it to generate the JavaScript, as we do a pretty good job of it already.

 

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#29 MishMash

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 02:22 PM

My real hope with this is that it'll actually become a reasonable idea to do Java/C# true OO style programming where you can get away with using objects for alot more, such as making Inventorys out of objects rather than just arrays, so rather than having

objPlayer.InventorySlot[a] you could do something like ObjPlayer . Inventory . Slot[a], that way it helps keep the main objPlayer clean and doesn't require repasting of code, its also easier to visualise than loads of scripts.
one thing having more processing power will be really great for should be large amounts of data processing, currently GM's data is quite slow, with regard to it taking a while to process data in 2d arrays if you loop through the whole thing.
(Thats one of the limitations of my current game.)

I Feel that GameMaker's graphical capabilities are pretty good but are limited by processing, As in 3D if its one model, you can render 1,000,000+ Polygons and still maintain a good FPS which shows GM seems to have a decent graphics pipeline, however it seems to get slowed from the processing side of it, the other thing is whether the Compiler will also make use of compile-time code optimisation, as that could help make a difference!

It would also be nice to be able to turn off GM's default object processing, like the gravity and speed processing as that could also help speed things up, not an expert though.


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#30 DanRedux

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 02:51 PM

MishMash, you can already do that. The speed loss of inlining code in one object, vs splitting it into two, is almost negligible. I do that kind of OO all the time.

 

However, for say, a 3d voxel terrain... Objects would be wonderful to use there, instead of multiple arrays. Structs would be also very useful.


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#31 MishMash

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 03:09 PM

Yeah thats more what i meant, using Objects as a more struct or datatype style, however in my current game, if i used objects for loads, it tends to slow down, what i would really love is the struct style of object, so you can have objects which represent data but don't do any processing or if they do, its not every step, only upon predefined Method/function calls, to save on processing.

My friend made a 3D minecraft engine, rendering was fast, but generation was soo slow as of the nature of the amount of data needed in GM, the thing is, That yyg demo which uses voxel like blocks for their 3D rendering test shows that the potential is there, but currently GM is far too slow to efficiently create 3d voxel terrain at a decent rate, especially since you end up having to use alot of grid-based math to calculate collisions.

 

If GM had some of the more common programming methods like object specific methods, structs, classes rather than objects (so stripping out all of the default processing if you wanted to), now Overloads, those would be so useful! It would also be useful if you could define in a script the arguments, so that when you are referencing a script somewhere else in code, you can make it popup an argument line.


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#32 paul23

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 10:20 PM

If you use objects well the speed change is actually quite low. However wishing about GM to support OO is just leading to nothing for now. In the current iteration of GM:Studio we won't see large changes to this anyways.


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#33 Mr. RPG

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 05:54 AM

@TimBuchalka @metkis GameMaker:Studio for OSX. should happen before the end of the year.

Am I the only one excited about this?  :whistling:

I'm finally getting a MacBook Pro this summer so I totally am.


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#34 Lune

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 05:39 PM

@TimBuchalka @metkis GameMaker:Studio for OSX. should happen before the end of the year.

Am I the only one excited about this?  :whistling:
I'm finally getting a MacBook Pro this summer so I totally am.

Nope. GameMaker is the only thing I use Windows for anymore, with the exception of the occasional exclusive Steam game.
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#35 Mr. RPG

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 06:26 AM

 

 

@TimBuchalka @metkis GameMaker:Studio for OSX. should happen before the end of the year.

Am I the only one excited about this?  :whistling:
I'm finally getting a MacBook Pro this summer so I totally am.

 

Nope. GameMaker is the only thing I use Windows for anymore, with the exception of the occasional exclusive Steam game.

 

I like having the ability to use all of the platforms. I love Windows and from what I have seen of Mac OS X, I love that too, but I need a change.

 

My desktop will still be my primary gaming machine and my primary development studio, but having the ability to use Studio on Mac OS X will also be awesome! I could even do it during class!  :thumbsup:


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#36 mecool1

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 02:16 AM

Did anyone else notice the spelling mistake in the YouTube video?? Wow, just wow. Very unprofessional. It says platfroms..
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#37 Overloaded

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 12:15 PM

A typo??? Oh no! This is a disaster! Someone did a typo! Soooooo unprofessional! Shame on you YoYoGames, I will never buy your products again now! I didn't expect that....

 

 

Seriously now? Unprofessional because.... of a typo?


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#38 kburkhart84

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 05:43 PM

Unprofessional yes, but not a big deal.  I'm not going to boycott the software because of it.


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#39 NakedPaulToast

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 06:15 PM

Continuously amazed at how willing and often the GMC throws the unprofessional shot at YYGs.


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#40 mr magnus

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 06:51 PM

Continuously amazed at how willing and often the GMC throws the unprofessional shot at YYGs.

I hope they see the irony of that. they're making a fortune each and every day using only a single product and we (most of us) aren't even making enough to be able to consider us professionals. I think YOYOgames has dealt with everything in an extremely friendly and professional way, despite everything that has come against them.


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#41 Tarik

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 07:08 PM

Ugh. To make a typo in a public relations video, carefully crafted with the new YYG logo and a slick YYG video template, frankly is both human and unprofessional. I don't think anyone will disagree with that notion, that publishing something with incorrect English is an unprofessional thing to do.

 

Nowhere did he claim that because that was an unprofessional act, that YYG is unprofessional. Why must be vilify a user when he says something like this? Why must we put words in his mouth and act as if he's saying YYG is unprofessional in its development of game-dev software, or act as if he's calling on us to boycott YYG? Why would it be ironic at all, to call a typo unprofessional, when the maker of that typo is 'making a fortune'? Why would you assume making money and professionalism are necessarily linked? Why would a non-professional have less credibility to call a typo unprofessional that if a professional had said it, what does it matter who he is?

 

Why can we not take the plain meaning of words for what they are? Making a typo in a public relations video is unprofessional, that's what he said, and it's true. You can argue the semantics of what a professional entails, you can argue about all kinds of things he did NOT say (that YYG was a failing company, that they're unprofessional in their software development) etc, but you're only succumbing to a childish eagerness to point at someone and vilify them to feel better about yourself and act like only you see the irony, like you're the only one who sees the big picture, like that person is naive but you are most definitely not. 

 

Give it a rest. If anything, YYG ought to care about typos in their PR. It doesn't need a small army of GMC users to bash a user that reports them.


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#42 mr magnus

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 07:26 PM

Ugh. To make a typo in a public relations video, carefully crafted with the new YYG logo and a slick YYG video template, frankly is both human and unprofessional. I don't think anyone will disagree with that notion, that publishing something with incorrect English is an unprofessional thing to do.

 

Nowhere did he claim that because that was an unprofessional act, that YYG is unprofessional. Why must be vilify a user when he says something like this? Why must we put words in his mouth and act as if he's saying YYG is unprofessional in its development of game-dev software, or act as if he's calling on us to boycott YYG? Why would it be ironic at all, to call a typo unprofessional, when the maker of that typo is 'making a fortune'? Why would you assume making money and professionalism are necessarily linked? Why would a non-professional have less credibility to call a typo unprofessional that if a professional had said it, what does it matter who he is?

 

Why can we not take the plain meaning of words for what they are? Making a typo in a public relations video is unprofessional, that's what he said, and it's true. You can argue the semantics of what a professional entails, you can argue about all kinds of things he did NOT say (that YYG was a failing company, that they're unprofessional in their software development) etc, but you're only succumbing to a childish eagerness to point at someone and vilify them to feel better about yourself and act like only you see the irony, like you're the only one who sees the big picture, like that person is naive but you are most definitely not. 

 

Give it a rest. If anything, YYG ought to care about typos in their PR. It doesn't need a small army of GMC users to bash a user that reports them.

ok, few (long) notions and then I'm out:

Spoiler


Edited by mr magnus, 08 July 2013 - 07:44 PM.

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#43 GameRoom

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:05 PM

He just called out a typo. No need to make a big deal out of it.


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#44 Nocturne

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:52 PM

What does simulated particles mean? Using objects? Can someone from Yoyo clarify?

 

Objects or one object drawing it all... Can't remember which, but not the actual particle system itself I believe.


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#45 Tarik

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:23 PM

Mr magnus, I didn't put any words in NPT's mouth. The entire red piece you quoted were questions, mostly based on your post and the implications made in Overloaded's post. As I expected, you'd also argue semantics rather than just accept that writing a typo in a public relations video is an unprofessional thing to do. That doesn't mean anyone is saying that YYG has no job and thusly have no profession, what a nonsensical argument to make?

 

But really, my post is aimed at a general sentiment here at the GMC. I see it all too often, that people see some form of criticism of YYG, in this case a very factual one, and rather than accepting it and moving on (because a typo, while factually unprofessional, isn't a big deal, but it's better to mention it than for YYG to go unaware), they feel the need to come to YYG's aid and dismiss the criticism. Usually with this paternalizing tone like I saw in your post, saying it's so ironic that someone who (assumed) doesn't have a job cannot mention the mistake of someone who does have a job and call that mistake unprofessional.

 

What a silly world we'd live in, if we were so politically correct not to even want to mention unprofessional typos in a public video about the launch of one of the biggest things happening to GM in 15 years when GM is one of the most rapidly growing and disruptive pieces of software out there in the game-dev industry and evidently has recently spent quite a bit of attention on developing its public image and brand. Thanks and you enjoy the rest of your evening too.


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#46 Smarty

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:34 PM

And while someone corrects that typo, please put in a clean shaven arm as well. I expect from a professional company that they'll only let properly groomed arms appear in videos, not one that just came out of a cave.
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#47 mr magnus

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:35 PM

Mr magnus, I didn't put any words in NPT's mouth.

my point precisely. that entire paragraph was just a satire example to show you how quickly these debates go out of hand without any reasonable grounds. I didn't mean a single word of that. :)

also, I never stated that the person in question is unemployed (something you created yourself from my post), I never intended to make such an impact on you, and you're enlarging the entire debate. Just like you didn't like the tone in my post we didn't like the tone in meccol1's post, instead of just pointing out the typo he also emphasized it and underlined (metaphorically). let's just let it slide by, I'm all head over heels with shaders and I didn't even notice the typo. I love GM to depths and I'm in no mood to argue over such irrelevant issues that in the end are just a waste of everyones time. :D


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#48 Nocturne

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:39 PM

Guys, drop the damn typo already, okay? Keep it on topic...  :thumbsup:


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#49 daniel_lemke

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:26 PM

My real hope with this is that it'll actually become a reasonable idea to do Java/C# true OO style programming where you can get away with using objects for alot more, such as making Inventorys out of objects rather than just arrays, so rather than having

objPlayer.InventorySlot[a] you could do something like ObjPlayer . Inventory . Slot[a], that way it helps keep the main objPlayer clean and doesn't require repasting of code, its also easier to visualise than loads of scripts.
one thing having more processing power will be really great for should be large amounts of data processing, currently GM's data is quite slow, with regard to it taking a while to process data in 2d arrays if you loop through the whole thing.
(Thats one of the limitations of my current game.)

I Feel that GameMaker's graphical capabilities are pretty good but are limited by processing, As in 3D if its one model, you can render 1,000,000+ Polygons and still maintain a good FPS which shows GM seems to have a decent graphics pipeline, however it seems to get slowed from the processing side of it, the other thing is whether the Compiler will also make use of compile-time code optimisation, as that could help make a difference!

It would also be nice to be able to turn off GM's default object processing, like the gravity and speed processing as that could also help speed things up, not an expert though.

Make an inventory object, then in whatever you want to have the inventory just create a variable to store the instance. You can then do objPlayer.inventory.slot[a] in other objects.


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#50 mr magnus

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 06:05 PM

 

My real hope with this is that it'll actually become a reasonable idea to do Java/C# true OO style programming where you can get away with using objects for alot more, such as making Inventorys out of objects rather than just arrays, so rather than having

objPlayer.InventorySlot[a] you could do something like ObjPlayer . Inventory . Slot[a], that way it helps keep the main objPlayer clean and doesn't require repasting of code, its also easier to visualise than loads of scripts.
one thing having more processing power will be really great for should be large amounts of data processing, currently GM's data is quite slow, with regard to it taking a while to process data in 2d arrays if you loop through the whole thing.
(Thats one of the limitations of my current game.)

I Feel that GameMaker's graphical capabilities are pretty good but are limited by processing, As in 3D if its one model, you can render 1,000,000+ Polygons and still maintain a good FPS which shows GM seems to have a decent graphics pipeline, however it seems to get slowed from the processing side of it, the other thing is whether the Compiler will also make use of compile-time code optimisation, as that could help make a difference!

It would also be nice to be able to turn off GM's default object processing, like the gravity and speed processing as that could also help speed things up, not an expert though.

Make an inventory object, then in whatever you want to have the inventory just create a variable to store the instance. You can then do objPlayer.inventory.slot[a] in other objects.

 

you're missing the point. In other languages, such as C#, Java, whatnot, you can create classes or objects that do nothing but act as containers or special "task-solvers" and don't really waste any time on "extra" things, and you can make them have special functions that only they need.

In game maker object by default come with a billion pre-set variables, all cutting up memory, and all go trough the "GM-event cycle", testing if they have step events, anything to draw, check alarms and collisions e.c.t. This also wastes time, RAM and patience. f.x each step GM does "x+=hspeed" even if hspeed is 0. this is redundant.
 


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