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Gmcjam Future Discussion Topic


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#101 Yal

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 11:19 AM

The main problem with creative work is that it's highly subjective whether it's good or bad. The winner of this event won't be the review that is the best; it'll be the review with the most votes (because votes are a lot easier to measure than quality).

 

I'd personally say that our goal with this event should be quantity rather than competition; the main reason the Reviews forum is dead is because nobody finishes writing reviews anymore. The goal with the Workshop should be to get people to actually finish something for once, that's something we GMCers seem innately bad at.


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#102 TeamSteeve

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 11:47 AM


<snip>


I'm not entirely sure but I think you might be getting your topics mixed up there Yal.
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#103 Yal

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 12:09 PM

Oops... I really did. No wonder I got confused when I checked back on it 15 minutes ago. :confused:


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#104 HayManMarc

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 07:22 PM

Too many tabs, YAL. :)
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#105 TheUltimate

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 02:18 AM

I PM'd Nocturne with this shortly after the topic was started so I wouldn't derail it with an off-topic post, but since he hasn't added it for discussion yet, I thought I'd do it myself and see what everyone thinks.

 

You know how there are categories for "Best use of handicap" "Best use of theme" etc? It'd be cool if you could do a Top 5 or Top 10 for it, instead of just a single winner. People could vote for an overall winner as well as ranking their top # games for fun / innovation / theme / etc. It'd be another goal for Jammers to aim for, because not everyone has the time or ability to make something that'll be voted into the overall top 10, but you don't have to have the longest or most professional-looking game to win "most innovative," for example. There's less emphasis on trying to place well overall. It'll also keep the Jam from becoming full of generic, instant-fun games since some voters have fun as their sole voting criteria, and it's not fair to everyone who does something different (I'm not dissing those who do make instant-fun games, since they can be pretty awesome, but there just isn't much incentive for experimental games, since they do noticeably worse. I don't want that aspect of the Jam slipping away in the future).

 

I can see something like this working because it doesn't take a lot of effort to rank different categories if you've already played the games. It would also allow people to vote for games that stand out, but aren't quite destined for the top placings.


Edited by TheUltimate, 23 March 2013 - 02:29 AM.

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#106 TeamSteeve

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 05:56 AM

I like it TU!
I think that is a really good idea. We already have these extra category winners, top 5 or 10 should be very easy to add and then we'll have more winners!

Kudos to you.
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#107 TerraFriedSheep

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:58 AM

You know how there are categories for "Best use of handicap" "Best use of theme" etc? It'd be cool if you could do a Top 5 or Top 10 for it, instead of just a single winner. People could vote for an overall winner as well as ranking their top # games for fun / innovation / theme / etc. It'd be another goal for Jammers to aim for, because not everyone has the time or ability to make something that'll be voted into the overall top 10, but you don't have to have the longest or most professional-looking game to win "most innovative," for example. There's less emphasis on trying to place well overall. It'll also keep the Jam from becoming full of generic, instant-fun games since some voters have fun as their sole voting criteria, and it's not fair to everyone who does something different (I'm not dissing those who do make instant-fun games, since they can be pretty awesome, but there just isn't much incentive for experimental games, since they do noticeably worse. I don't want that aspect of the Jam slipping away in the future).

 

I can see something like this working because it doesn't take a lot of effort to rank different categories if you've already played the games. It would also allow people to vote for games that stand out, but aren't quite destined for the top placings.

 

I like the principle of your idea, it almost certainly would give the extra motivation to participants who are being experimental with their game-making but may have been put off entering due to the lack of overall balance in the various aspects of games that tend to win votes for the top spot!

 

My only concern is that it may complicate the reviewing process for individuals. I already struggle to know in which order to vote games, and how many to actually give a vote to. If people then have to vote on a few more categories in the same manner the whole task might become overwhelming and lead people to not bother, a problem which the jam is already facing.

 

Having said this, what we do already have in place is people voting for the "best of" categories as you say. It may only be one vote per voter per category, but that will build up a tally of votes which could in theory be used to rank those games who received votes for each category, and hence your idea of having a ranking system for the sub-categories could be issued without any further requirements placed on the reviewers!


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#108 HayManMarc

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 08:06 PM

^ yes, I agree with TFS. But that means more work for the admin.
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#109 speedchuck

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:48 AM

The next Jam is in about a month. Have we come up with anything concrete to implement? And is there any chance that we can push it back a week, I have finals. And as we all know, it isn't a jam unless I participate.


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#110 HayManMarc

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 08:22 AM

LET SPEEDCHUCK JAM! LET SPEEDCHUCK JAM!

(I know. It's spammy, but I couldn't help myself.) :)
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#111 TerraFriedSheep

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 03:09 PM

The next Jam is in about a month. Have we come up with anything concrete to implement? And is there any chance that we can push it back a week, I have finals. And as we all know, it isn't a jam unless I participate.

 

I entered a Jam with my finals looming a year ago... They turned out pretty well, I'd recommend Jamming in between revision, it helps settle the mind...


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#112 speedchuck

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 03:05 AM

The next Jam is in about a month. Have we come up with anything concrete to implement? And is there any chance that we can push it back a week, I have finals. And as we all know, it isn't a jam unless I participate.

 

I entered a Jam with my finals looming a year ago... They turned out pretty well, I'd recommend Jamming in between revision, it helps settle the mind...

I have two finals on Friday and two on Monday that weekend. It'll be hard, but I may try to enter anyways... I just don't see myself having more than 15 hours to dedicate to this.


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#113 TerraFriedSheep

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 10:05 AM

 

The next Jam is in about a month. Have we come up with anything concrete to implement? And is there any chance that we can push it back a week, I have finals. And as we all know, it isn't a jam unless I participate.

 

I entered a Jam with my finals looming a year ago... They turned out pretty well, I'd recommend Jamming in between revision, it helps settle the mind...

I have two finals on Friday and two on Monday that weekend. It'll be hard, but I may try to enter anyways... I just don't see myself having more than 15 hours to dedicate to this.

 

Ah, that is a bit more serious! I still had at least a couple of weeks to play with if I remember correctly.

 

Having brought up your point of moving the Jam, it has made me think. I feel quite strongly that the Jam should have set dates and not be moved on the basis that a few (albeit regulars) might not be able to participate. Move it for one, and it is likely to prevent someone else from entering on the new date.

 

However having said that, it does seem that this upcoming Jam date in particular seems to cause conflicts with priorities that could potentially be lessened if we revised the dates that the Jams are held. We currently hold Jams (correct me if I'm wrong!) at the end of January, end of April, end of July and the end of October. My question then is would there be a better 3 month interval that the Jams could be moved to that would reduce conflict with exams (as they tend to be the biggest cause of drop outs)? Bear in mind that exams tend to run for quite a while when you take a wide age range into consideration- it might just be a fact that we have to live with that the Jams are going to conflict with education.


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#114 speedchuck

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 06:19 PM

@Snail_Man

When I posted about this, nobody had posted here in days. I also asked:

Have we come up with anything concrete to implement?

 

It's fine if we cannot push the Jam back a week, finals will push other people out even if we do so. As is, I might be able to collab with motg or make a really short game. I'm still planning on reviewing every game after finals. It probably was a bit short-sighted to ask for it to be pushed back.


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#115 HayManMarc

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 12:51 AM

We are in the month of Jam #10. Can we get a thread started for it? And what's up with all these suggestions so far? Seems like this thread has been abandoned by the Mods in charge.


Edited by HayManMarc, 06 April 2013 - 06:26 PM.

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#116 TerraFriedSheep

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 03:11 PM

Usually the jam discussion topic isn't made until the middle of the month. I sort of like it that way, because there's no temptation for the mods* to reveal more letters than they can afford so everybody guesses the theme before the jam begins.

 

The only thing that's been definately decided so far, is that we will include the folder randomizer.

 

 

Here are my stances on the remaining issues (I'm grouping them all together because there're only 3 weeks left before the jam)

 

-Do not change reviewing/voting, but an emphasis in the OP of the voting topic that there's no need to review/vote for every game, and that you can do as many as you'd like.

-Keep the handicap (for the time being)

-Keep the prizes (for the time being)

-Keep the old forum structure, with one topic for all the games (the only one I feel vaguely strongly about.)

 

*Nocturne

 

Thanks for summarising what has been said in this discussion, I was struggling to remember exactly what we had been over!

 

Generally all looks okay to me; if anything at least we have got the introduction of the folder randomiser out of this.

 

 

If there was one more thing I'd like to at least see trialled, it would be a section in the main post listing people interested in forming reviewing teams who would work together to play & review a seperate amount of games each (like the list we have already for people looking for a team). If those individuals don't think they'll be able to play all the games themselves it might help spread the feedback over all the entries.


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#117 Chessmasterriley

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 03:26 AM

Topic up soon?


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#118 @Alex@

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 08:54 AM

I'd just guess but it will likely be end of the week, beginning of the next week before the topic is up.


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#119 Nocturne

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 09:07 AM

Guys, I've been very busy but that doesn't mean I'm ignoring this! Topic will be up VERY SOON. 


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#120 SecondReality

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 04:31 PM

Nocturne, can you already tell us the date of the upcoming Jam so I can make sure I'll have nothing to do that weekend?


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#121 Overloaded

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 04:35 PM

Nocturne, can you already tell us the date of the upcoming Jam so I can make sure I'll have nothing to do that weekend?

 

It's 27, 28 and 29 of April. Nocturne told me that.

 

EDIT: Ninja'd


Edited by Overloaded, 17 April 2013 - 04:35 PM.

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#122 SecondReality

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 04:42 PM

Ok thanks! :)


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#123 Ruub

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 04:48 PM

Ahh I wish I could join. *jealouse much*


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#124 greep

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 07:59 PM

Bah, have a massive project due that weekend :/  guess I'll just try a joke game or something :(


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#125 blopit

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 10:42 PM

I'm moving to a new place that weekend D:

Guess It's another highly experimental and/or controversial and/or difficult game for me! 

Yeay! Can't wait to see what I come up with!


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#126 Lune

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 04:52 AM

Yikes! I think I'm going to have to miss it, too. I'm going to be working half the time and on vacation the other half. So bittersweet.

 

Maybe I'll throw something together in the few spare hours I'll have! :)


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#127 Overloaded

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 10:03 PM

If I'm not mistaken, it's exactly a week until the jam begins, give or take a few hours.

 

Correct. I'm kinda surprised the topic isn't up yet... the GMCJam 9 topic was 10 days earlier up before the jam started, I think.


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