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Protection issues - Crashes and Skulls.


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#61 Gordy

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:40 AM

The blunder will probably serve to scare people away from getting a cracked copy come to think of it.


Thing is, this doesn't just make me want to not use cracks, but it doesn't make me want to use any of their new updates either. Not because I'm afraid that my assets will be bastardized, but because this kind of thing could even happen in the first place. Sure, this is one of those extreme cases of a software blunder, but any company, willing to allow the destruction of someone's hard work (regardless if they're pirates), is unacceptable. I could only imagine what would happen if this had been Adobe Photoshop, applying a noise filter to each layer of your project, just because they thought it was pirated.
I don't want to support a product by a company who can't think of any better way to deter pirates, than to destroy their content.
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#62 process

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:13 AM

Hello, I've bought the web version last week. Today I had problems with update, which would freeze in middle and just get stuck , and after several times of trying to update I lost it and re installed the whole version again, again with same update issues. Later on I took the older installer from my husband and started all over again, installed it, cleaned directories of previous versions etc, installed from scratch then all my graphics went ballistic with this skulls. I mean I am very upset right now, I lost whole day with this, now I'm stuck with skulls and no means to update . I mean ill try to download new version all over again, but you should really look into these skulls its time consuming and its affecting your paying costumers, in terms of wasting time.....Btw I did the whole antivirus thing, and there are no viruses on my computer...
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#63 Arusiasotto

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:38 AM

Do a clean install, the instructions for one are available in the update fail post in the stickied section.
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#64 misturx

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:37 PM

There is a simple way to fix all this piracy nonsense Mike. YoYo has to make two versions of GMS. I know you already have a free version too so here is how you fix this mess. The free version should be a separately coded version which contains no other module info for pirates to "cracktivate" with its own dowload link. Then you have a retail version with Standard, Pro and other module info which requires a legit key to install and be activated online like you have now. This retail version must only be given to paying customers and must have its own download link too. Once GMS is bought based on module or version purchased the retail customer is given the retail download link via email.

Let me recap this simply for you Mike:

1. YoYo has to make two separate vesions of GMS coded differently. A free and a retail version.

2. Have two separate download links. One for the free version and one for the retail version sent to the paid customer's email address.

What YoYo has now is the free and retail version info coded in the same GMS exe so the crackers "cracktivate" the modules based on the included code.

This is just my recommendation for YoYo Games!

For updates:

For all those who have already bought GMS you send them a retail link for future updates. The free version must have a different link too for future updates.
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#65 kburkhart84

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:45 PM

That wouldn't work very well. All it takes is one legit but corrupt owner to ruin it. They can simply either crack the full version themselves, or share the files with someone who can, and the result is the same.
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#66 misturx

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:53 PM

That wouldn't work very well. All it takes is one legit but corrupt owner to ruin it. They can simply either crack the full version themselves, or share the files with someone who can, and the result is the same.


Thinking back now after I posted, I must say that I have to agree with you on that because I know of other softwares that used my suggested method and ran into the same problem you've mentioned. However it was just a suggestion to YoYo.
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#67 Mike.Dailly

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:10 PM


That wouldn't work very well. All it takes is one legit but corrupt owner to ruin it. They can simply either crack the full version themselves, or share the files with someone who can, and the result is the same.

Thinking back now after I posted, I must say that I have to agree with you on that because I know of other softwares that used my suggested method and ran into the same problem you've mentioned. However it was just a suggestion to YoYo.


Just to briefly comment.... we've already had criminals (and I avoid using the term hackers here, because hardly any of them would stoop to this) using stolen credit cards to get a license, which they then "give out". But at least with this, we can currently revoke the license so it's of no further use. Hackers for the most part simply like the challenge, but anyone using stolen cards is a crook - plain and simple.
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#68 icuurd12b42

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:13 PM

Without going into details, the anti piracy system I worked on "compiled" the product to run exclusively on the machine that bought it.

So to take misturx method, the free version is a separate scaled down product with nothing to unlock. It provides enough to try the product and provides the contact to the point of sales on the web.

You buy, you get a download to the full version; compiled to run only on your machine.

You cant give your bought copy to anyone else. On another machine it would just make you go to the sales site.
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#69 Arusiasotto

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:20 PM

Except we're allowed to have this installed on 3 machines....
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#70 icuurd12b42

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:39 PM

Except we're allowed to have this installed on 3 machines....

The system I worked on would simply send you to the sales point wen you run from the other machine, you would login, like on steam, get another download for that machine. You'd now have 2 compiles, one for each machine. Much like to old GM drm...
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#71 Erik Leppen

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:48 PM

It would work, but 1. it would place a lot of strain on the server, and 2. it is complicated to use for paying customers. Nothing that's meant to prevent piracy should ever complicate the use for paying customers, 'cause then it runs the risk of being counterproductive.
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#72 icuurd12b42

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:08 PM

It would work, but 1. it would place a lot of strain on the server, and 2. it is complicated to use for paying customers. Nothing that's meant to prevent piracy should ever complicate the use for paying customers, 'cause then it runs the risk of being counterproductive.


1) Not really, when I say "compiled", on the server it's just pushing a binary file as it normally does while fiddling bits here and there, playing with the functions address table. It's not a compile in the conventional sense, just infusion/remapping. On the other hand, the method can cause grief with anti virus scanners because no 2 exe has the same checksum. Another method is to have the exe the same on all machine, but the exe asks the server for the function table so it can run.

2) The user does no know his exe is just for him.
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#73 Arusiasotto

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:52 PM

They should know, or there would be grief when they copied the installer onto a pen drive and tried to install on machine 2 or 3...

Edited by Arusiasotto, 03 December 2012 - 09:52 PM.

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#74 Mike.Dailly

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:59 AM

It wouldn't really matter, it's still a DRM which limits the installer to a single machine meaning you can't freely install it on anything else, where as the hackers would simply remove it anyway - so your back to square one, limiting users where as pirates can use it freely. Even embedding a users details inside a program means nothing when a pirate uses a stolen card to buy it.
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#75 Erik Leppen

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:52 AM

2) The user does no know his exe is just for him.

Not an argument.

You're burdening users with the responsibility to arrange a new .exe when their machine changes, or when they get a new computer. This is a time investment that many paying customers will see as an unnecessary hassle. This in turn will make pirating a program more attractive to those users.



Whatever you're doing, you're putting the burden on users to prove that they paid. Pirates, on the other hand, have to prove nothing, because they destroy the parts of the program that does the check. In essense, DRM is a "guilty until proven innocent" mechanism. There's no way around that, except not having DRM.

So, if you want to have DRM, your task is to make proving innocence as easy as it can get.

Could using a call to YYG to compile a final application be an option? That would mean that every time I want to compile an .exe, .ipa, .apk, .js or whatever, GM:S phones home to check licence. Of course, there has to be a vital part of the compilation process that has to be done by the server. Otherwise, pirates can just alter the compilation process by removing the check.
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#76 Mike.Dailly

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:38 PM

Could using a call to YYG to compile a final application be an option? That would mean that every time I want to compile an .exe, .ipa, .apk, .js or whatever, GM:S phones home to check licence. Of course, there has to be a vital part of the compilation process that has to be done by the server. Otherwise, pirates can just alter the compilation process by removing the check.


Nope. Not everyone has an internet connection so this simply isn't something we can force on folk, and on top of that most educational places and summer camps simply can't do this, machines are too locked down. I'm also not sure how feasible this is from places like Brasil or China. They may not have a connection, or it may be blocked. I don't know.

In a couple of years time... perhaps. but not yet.
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#77 NakedPaulToast

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:16 PM

Just to briefly comment.... we've already had criminals (and I avoid using the term hackers here, because hardly any of them would stoop to this) using stolen credit cards to get a license, which they then "give out". But at least with this, we can currently revoke the license so it's of no further use. Hackers for the most part simply like the challenge, but anyone using stolen cards is a crook - plain and simple.


Stealing Credit Card info to buy GameMaker. Wow, I miss the old days where stolen credit card info was used for porn and online gambling.
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#78 icuurd12b42

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:38 PM


2) The user does no know his exe is just for him.

Not an argument.

You're burdening users with the responsibility to arrange a new .exe when their machine changes, or when they get a new computer. This is a time investment that many paying customers will see as an unnecessary hassle. This in turn will make pirating a program more attractive to those users.

Yeah, it's about the same problem as GM8 where you have to re-fetch the program. However, cracking the program protected with the method that I know is next to impossible. The cracker would have to spend years debugging/stepping through the code to crack it.

Could using a call to YYG to compile a final application be an option? That would mean that every time I want to compile an .exe, .ipa, .apk, .js or whatever, GM:S phones home to check licence. Of course, there has to be a vital part of the compilation process that has to be done by the server. Otherwise, pirates can just alter the compilation process by removing the check.


I actually recommended this.
http://gmc.yoyogames...dpost&p=4150548
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#79 Mike.Dailly

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:38 PM

I actually recommended this.
http://gmc.yoyogames...dpost&p=4150548


It's something we have considered in the past, and will do again in the future, if we can come up with a good business model to make it work. For now, it's too tough a sell. There's also the "what if yoyo disappears?" question. What happens to my program that I paid "XXX" for?!?!

So... no simple answer just yet, but we're constantly thinking about how to make it better for everyone.
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#80 icuurd12b42

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:02 PM


I actually recommended this.
http://gmc.yoyogames...dpost&p=4150548


It's something we have considered in the past, and will do again in the future, if we can come up with a good business model to make it work. For now, it's too tough a sell. There's also the "what if yoyo disappears?" question. What happens to my program that I paid "XXX" for?!?!

So... no simple answer just yet, but we're constantly thinking about how to make it better for everyone.


I guess you could sell the web server separately... Maybe as part of the ultimate studio package. Conventional users would use the yoyo service, enterprises would use their own. Push comes to shove if yoyo goes down you can give away the service and all can install it locally.

Then again this opens up the whole issue of people grabbing a hacked server and/or providing the service behind your back.
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#81 GothSeiDank

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:29 PM

I am strongly against everything that requires a permanent internet connection or uploads my intellectual property to a server without me actively doing it..
I am an open source programmer, but I decide weather I send my code to a server or not.
It is a principle of me. I am an honest customer and I deserve so much trust.
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#82 Isometric

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:47 PM

This problem just started affecting me today out of nowhere when I restarted GameMaker. I do have the latest update installed. Damn me and my curiosity of what the HTML5 theme looked like! Curiosity really did kill the cat in this situation haha.
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#83 Nocturne

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:57 PM

If you have the .710/.711 updates installed, this should not affect you as the DRM was removed... Posted Image
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#84 Isometric

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:02 AM

I see what it does...it trashes your sprites haha. So I still have these trashed sprites in play, which is why it is still like this. That is no big deal, I just have to reimport my sprites. Does it affect anything else that I should be looking for? It seems as if my project is working properly, but it would be nice to know just in case.
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#85 Arusiasotto

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:27 AM

No, it only affected sprites thankfully. Trashed sprites are easy to notice, trashed scripts would completely bork the compile and in ways not immediately noticable.
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#86 msdos622wasfun

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:49 PM

This DRM debacle happened to me as well, and I have to admit I found it jarring. At first I thought, what the hell? Am I infected with something or did somebody hack into my system? But thankfully it went away when I updated Studio to the most recent version, and I simply had to restore my assets from my backup.

All I can really say is that in my opinion, I can usually tolerate DRM if it doesn't affect me in some destructive way. Yeah, I'd have to say that I personally think that YoYo crossed the line in this particular case, but as far as I can see they have taken responsibility for it and have rectified the situation by removing the offending scheme. I applaud them for that. I really don't know if I totally blame them (or any software publisher for that matter) for implementing copy protection in the first place. I dislike piracy as much as the next guy. Maybe in the future we can all come to some sort of agreement that makes everybody happy and that doesn't punish legitimate users.

Ultimately I am very grateful for the existence of this product -- it was amazing to me that I was able to buy the professional version on sale for such a great price over the Thanksgiving holiday (in the U.S.). Hopefully there is an understanding that honest customers like us appreciate the work that goes into it and that we rely on this tool for either a living or, in my case, a hobby.
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#87 Jake Armstrong

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 08:59 AM

You broke my heart, GameMaker. I'll have to keep using 8.1 or switch to Unity because I won't support a company with this little respect for its paying customers.
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#88 Passa

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 11:17 AM


I actually recommended this.
http://gmc.yoyogames...dpost&p=4150548


It's something we have considered in the past, and will do again in the future, if we can come up with a good business model to make it work. For now, it's too tough a sell. There's also the "what if yoyo disappears?" question. What happens to my program that I paid "XXX" for?!?!

So... no simple answer just yet, but we're constantly thinking about how to make it better for everyone.


Foul idea. The inconvenience you would bring to paying customers would push them to competing products that don't have ridiculous requirements such as always on internet - all to remove a questionable level of piracy. Just because something is widely pirated, does not mean all those pirates would have been paying customers otherwise. Pirated copes != lost sales.

I've used GM Studio in many scenarios where I've had no access to internet, and I would never have purchased it if this was a requirement. Most recently - during a 24 hour flight from Sydney to Paris. I worked pretty much for the entire flight non-stop (without internet obviously). No distractions, just me, a couple of crying babies in cattle class, and my laptop with GM Studio. The world will never be ready for a development environment that requires always on internet.
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#89 Mike.Dailly

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 01:46 PM

Foul idea. The inconvenience you would bring to paying customers would push them to competing products that don't have ridiculous requirements such as always on internet - all to remove a questionable level of piracy. Just because something is widely pirated, does not mean all those pirates would have been paying customers otherwise. Pirated copes != lost sales.

I've used GM Studio in many scenarios where I've had no access to internet, and I would never have purchased it if this was a requirement. Most recently - during a 24 hour flight from Sydney to Paris. I worked pretty much for the entire flight non-stop (without internet obviously). No distractions, just me, a couple of crying babies in cattle class, and my laptop with GM Studio. The world will never be ready for a development environment that requires always on internet.

I do agree for now. When we first wrote the new license system for GM8.1, it became apparent very quickly that lots of folk on here don't have 24/7 access. So to protect them we added the verification system. In order to keep control of stolen licenses, we do need to be able to revoke them, and hence the license verification file.

As I've said elsewhere, there may be a way forward where we can offer some kind of service if you are attached 24/7, but we're not there yet. On top of this we also have schools etc. who DO need versions which don't work that way.
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#90 alexandervrs

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 02:12 PM

It's something we have considered in the past, and will do again in the future, if we can come up with a good business model to make it work. For now, it's too tough a sell. There's also the "what if yoyo disappears?" question. What happens to my program that I paid "XXX" for?!?!

So... no simple answer just yet, but we're constantly thinking about how to make it better for everyone.


Thank you for not doing this server thing.
I know I would be frustrated if someday I could not compile my source code to update one of my existing games because my development product would have been discontinued and I would have no way to just use the final version offline or compile the source code with some other way.

Basically I will also be a content creator in the future, thanks to GameMaker Studio, I expect my games to be pirated at some point.
But I do rely on people that I know they would like to pay for my hard work. These are the people I mainly target. I know some people will pirate but decide to buy later for a number of reasons. I also know that people will pirate and share my game to other people, and these people might like it and buy it. So I cannot treat anyone as a thief. I have to focus on making my games great so more people would like to support my hard work and to see more from me in the future.

I believe big companies nowadays are concerned a bit too much with how to protect their products from their "evil" consumers and push governments to pass restrictive, nonsensical laws like SOPA, than making high quality content that people will spread the word about and actually will buy just because they love it and want to own it themselves.

So far I love what you guys have done with GameMaker Studio and I'd like you to keep it that way. Simply put, don't bother with DRM, sales will come, the people's mindset has changed in that regard. :)
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