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Protection issues - Crashes and Skulls.


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#31 chance

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:29 PM

If I thought for one minute we were going to effect customers, I'd never have put it in. Something we simply didn't expect has been happening on end users machines...

I'm sure it seemed like a good idea at the time. I mean, what could go wrong?

Anyway... looks like you fixed it. But you'll have to keep that "knuckle-head award" we gave you. :biggrin:/>

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#32 Katipo007

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:15 PM

hey this might not be related to any new antipiracy but, mods please look into this topic: Link

I'm pretty sure this is happening to some other users too
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#33 magus424

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:05 AM

I totally understand that those who have paid for GameMaker and are getting this are feeling very upset by the whole matter, and I can only apologise for the problems. As to why itís in there should be reasonably clear. GameMaker has traditionally been one of the most pirated programs around, and itís simply not right that some pay good money for it, while others simply pirate it.

And yet even GameMaker Studio has cracked versions available, so you've simply helped show that once again, DRM does not help anyone.

You've hurt legitimate purchasers of your program and done nothing to stop pirates, just like every DRM scheme ever created.
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#34 Passa

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:16 AM

Oh my god. I am just. I'm speechless. This is unbelievable. ALL MY SPRITES ARE RUINED. I bought HTML5, and immediately on Studio's release, purchased the full version with both Android and iOS modules.

I've dumped $500 into this program, and you setup some anti piracy **** that DESTROYS my assets? DESTROYS THEM? I don't understand WHY you would do this. I would undersdtand a bug that causes compiled applications to show skulls and crossbones, but DESTROYING MY GAME ASSETS?

I have a clean install of 1.1.666 that I installed after formatting to Windows 8. My copy is legitimate. You have SEVERELY DAMAGED MY PROJECT. I have backups, but I've made huge changes in the past two days. I was literally hours out of release, just working out the kinks with iAP. I now have ZERO CHANCE of releasing later tonight as planned, before I hit up a conference for the next four days.

This is unacceptable. There needs to be a full response from Yoyo about this. An email to purchasers (you have my email on record, since I'm a paying customer and all). I want to know how this happened, I want to know why this won't happen again, I want to know how I can most promptly fix my project. Is it just sprites that are affected or will there be other surprises my project YOU'VE destroyed. Removed bits of code? Changed variables around?

I'm just heartbroken. All my crunch time work in the last two days... wasted... way to treat your paying customers Yoyo....

EDIT: My quick look online indicates this is illegal, at least under Australian consumer protection law. I'll be following this up as far I have to. It's unacceptable when I buy something worth $5 at the supermarket and it has already gone off, it's quite a fair bit worse when my $500 product destroys the project I've spent a year working on.

EDIT 2: You know what really gets me? I've just read through this thread - it's the sheer arrogance of Yoyo Games in responding to this. Excuses about how it's the user's fault (you must all have viruses!) and then after failing to make it our fault, we get a series of excuses about piracy. You complain that GameMaker has always been pirated - yep, it has. It still is. So clearly your DRM DOESN'T WORK! That's the truly bizarre thing. All it does is hurt the real customers - people like me. The pirated versions remove the DRM. Their projects don't get ruined.

Let me tell you how you should be responding to this, to prevent your existing customers from telling others to not buy your product: apologise unreservedly. Explain why this happened, explain why it won't happen again. SOMETHING other than this smug "yeah but piracy, also it's probably your fault anyway" nonsense.

Edited by Passa, 29 November 2012 - 05:25 AM.

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#35 Arusiasotto

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:20 AM

It should just be your sprites. If you haven't altered those in the last two days, restore them from a backup. You do have a backup, right? However, if most of those two days of work were on sprites, my condolences.
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#36 Passa

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:54 AM

I had done tonnes of polish with the in-game resource editors since it was nearly finished. Fixed/created animations, colour adjustments, new assets for the menu system. Destroyed by YoYo Games.

The iAP system I had set up in my game was extremely cautious (a single iAP to unlock new modes), to ensure no one who had purchased my game would be ****ed over. Basic, no nonsense to ensure there wouldn't be problems. Stores the purchased variable without encryption or a checksum, no additional DRM. I even included a loophole where you could manually override the iAP requirement in case something goes horribly wrong with billing when communicating with Google and Apple's servers, so if people couldn't play their full version despite paying, I could let them know how to unlock the game anyway.

My 'DRM' was designed to not treat customers like pieces of dirt - and mine are only paying $0.99! YoYo's have paid up to $500 (like I have). The comparison of our two DRM systems, for me, sums it all up. YoYo doesn't get it. I'm upset the software even included a nuclear option like this at all. Can you imagine the outcry if Microsoft made pirated versions of Word delete all the Word documents on the affected computer? Even if it wasn't legitimate users affected (like with Studio), there would be an international outcry, government regulators would sue Microsoft into oblivion, they would be swamped by civil suits. YoYo will get away with this because their product has a much smaller user-base than Microsoft Word, but that doesn't make it any less wrong.

My faith in YoYo has been severely shattered today.

For those who CAN afford it, but find it just as easy to copy it. Well, rest assured, we know the games which get made, and if something does well.... I'm sure we'll be in touch. :whistle:


Umm. Mike. Are you telling me that all apps report back to YoYo? Is that what you're admitting here? That's far too intrusive DRM, my deployed apps shouldn't be sending data back to YoYo HQ so you can try cross reference if my app was compiled with a legit version.

Edited by Passa, 29 November 2012 - 09:12 AM.

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#37 Loopyluke

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:42 AM

This was a terrible idea... I have my laptop with me on holidays to work on a pet project of mine, and moving around a lot I don't have access to internet apart from phone tethering (although a low data plan), which I've been forced to do here to find out what the hell was actually going on. I opened up my project, run it and found that the sprites were mutilated. Thankfully at this stage they are all my own testing sprites and not actual game art, but nonetheless I was incredibly displeased, and given my limited data I can't update for another few weeks. How often do I need to tether so my license can 'recheck'?
You should really be careful how you manage copy protection, this was a disgustingly destructive way to go about it. If it had damaged resources that I were using in a game that I would be selling I'd be looking for damage compensation.
Is there any way to enable backups like the old versions of gamemaker had? At least that might help avoid these issues in the future.
Running 1.1.666 btw.

Edited by Loopyluke, 29 November 2012 - 09:48 AM.

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#38 rwkay

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:59 AM

Backups have been in for a long time go to File -> Preferences -> Enable Back ups, and set the directory you want the back ups made to.

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#39 Passa

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:39 AM

Backups have been in for a long time go to File -> Preferences -> Enable Back ups, and set the directory you want the back ups made to.

Are we really returning to blaming the users again?
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#40 Nocturne

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:50 AM


Backups have been in for a long time go to File -> Preferences -> Enable Back ups, and set the directory you want the back ups made to.

Are we really returning to blaming the users again?


Don't start with that crap...


Is there any way to enable backups like the old versions of gamemaker had? At least that might help avoid these issues in the future.
Running 1.1.666 btw.

Backups have been in for a long time go to File -> Preferences -> Enable Back ups, and set the directory you want the back ups made to.


Russell was responding to a legitimate question with a legitimate answer... I understand that you are upset and that is perfectly reasonable but please do NOT turn a mistake (admitted and rectified) into an excuse to bash the people that are listening and responding to your criticisms in an open and admirably candid way.
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#41 rwkay

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:51 AM

No, I am just reminding everyone that Backups were added around 2-3 months ago, though this does not seem to be common knowledge.

We are very sorry that you have been affected by this mistake on our part, and we have removed the offending code and we will never do anything like this again (that affects the project saved on disk) but we still reserve the right to make a pirates life very difficult, we already publish a Free version that is very open and has very few restrictions so any requirement to pirate the full copy of GameMaker:Studio is with a view to publishing on multiple targets (not just for testing the product out), anyone taking this route does not have any license for publishing and we take a very dim view of this. There has been no crack yet that has been fully successful and we monitor this situation very closely.

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#42 Passa

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:19 AM

No, I am just reminding everyone that Backups were added around 2-3 months ago, though this does not seem to be common knowledge.

We are very sorry that you have been affected by this mistake on our part, and we have removed the offending code and we will never do anything like this again (that affects the project saved on disk) but we still reserve the right to make a pirates life very difficult, we already publish a Free version that is very open and has very few restrictions so any requirement to pirate the full copy of GameMaker:Studio is with a view to publishing on multiple targets (not just for testing the product out), anyone taking this route does not have any license for publishing and we take a very dim view of this. There has been no crack yet that has been fully successful and we monitor this situation very closely.

I will admit fault in not realising you were replying to a sentence at the end of Loopyluke's post that I hadn't noticed. However, your paragraph here indicates you guys still don't get it. What I mean is, I don't care. I don't care that you want to stop people from pirating, and that you "reserve the right to make a pirates life difficult". Because these things shouldn't affect me. I shouldn't know the DRM exists, because I'm the paying (and highly paying one at that) customer. I'm the guy you should be rewarding, not shrugging off as an unfortunate casualty of your bad DRM.

It's the mantra of rewarding your customers vs punishing the pirates. There are no technological schemes that allow you to do the latter without impacting the former. Clearly, I mistook YYG for a company that values its customers, since right here you're telling me you care more about stopping pirates, with questionable means. No program should have a nuclear option like this.

Another thing - I really want clarification on something Mike said earlier:

For those who CAN afford it, but find it just as easy to copy it. Well, rest assured, we know the games which get made, and if something does well.... I'm sure we'll be in touch. :whistle:/>

Does this mean my apps will be reporting back to YYG, and letting you check to see if I compiled it with a legitimate version? Are final binaries I make with a legitimate copy of GMS trackable by YYG in any way? Do they call home?

Finally, just a thought: I've spent today ranting on Twitter and Facebook (and forums) to anyone who would listen about how angry I was with this. What impacts your sales more negatively - dissatisfied customers who, rather than providing glowing recommendations of your software, are criticising it publicly (due to over the top DRM), or a yet to be proven jump in piracy between gentle DRM regimes and over the top ones? Piracy sucks, I'm sure, but there's no better advocates and advertising platform for your brand than existing, loyal customers. Someone like me, who has been using GameMaker since version 5. I think YYG made the wrong choice here.

Edited by Passa, 29 November 2012 - 11:23 AM.

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#43 rwkay

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:45 AM

Clearly we do value our customers a lot by the way that we respond to criticism and implement requests in a reasonably timely manner, and come before you all in these forums to be shouted at when it merits it, I agree we screwed up here and it will not happen again we will never add any DRM which messes with your project saved on disk in any way.

If you have a legitimate copy of GMS any final binaries are NOT trackable by us, we have no idea what is published onto the app stores by our customers, we are not following your every move and we are not secretly waiting around the corner, they do not call home from legitimate copies.


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#44 Arusiasotto

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:51 AM

It's much more likely they have a signature linked to our license in one of the files that they can cross reference. He specifically stated popular games, so someone just has to look at say, data.win and see that their license data is wrong. Obviously an Android game should not have a license registered to Free, etc.

I'm not sure how they know the app was made in studio though. I haven't gone past tinkering with junk to actually make any games. The image of guys showing up at someones door with Bat'leths and a bill kind of amuses me though.
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#45 Passa

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:53 AM

Clearly we do value our customers a lot by the way that we respond to criticism and implement requests in a reasonably timely manner, and come before you all in these forums to be shouted at when it merits it, I agree we screwed up here and it will not happen again we will never add any DRM which messes with your project saved on disk in any way.

If you have a legitimate copy of GMS any final binaries are NOT trackable by us, we have no idea what is published onto the app stores by our customers, we are not following your every move and we are not secretly waiting around the corner, they do not call home from legitimate copies.


Thanks Russell. This is the sort of thing I wanted to hear, and I do appreciate YYG keeping a thread about this issue open rather than shutting down discussion.
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#46 9_6

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:33 PM

I don't think I need to re-iterate my stance on drm.

Maybe you should get a little less creative in the "making the life of pirates as hard as possible" department.
Who thought it was a good idea to put that "feature" into a development tool that deals with years of accumulated work, no matter the intent?
Corrupting game files back in the days was bad enough even if it happened very rarely but intentionally putting such a mechanic into the program is a whole other story.

Some people out there use your program to make a living.
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#47 ryan1980

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:07 AM

I'm afraid after this instance, the only thing you'll monitor is declining sales and an uptick in those who wouldn't pirate otherwise but do so out of spite for DRM. No malice toward you, but your program helps facilitate copyright infringement in the first place. For every Froad, there's 18 Zelda clones and 42 Super Mario engines. And apparently you know that because you can monitor every user's game when they make an executable. Yet you're ok with that, right?


You're involved in what once was an amazing concept of sharing and utilizing crowd sourced ideas and codes that people willfully gave up to help each other to what now is a DRM ladened trap to extort money from those who are still honest enough to pay for it. Your companies' paranoia will be the downfall of this and your cat and mouse game with pirates will continue to affect everyone but the cat and the mouse.


I mean this with all the honesty in the world.
It really is sad what YoYo Games has done to this brand. You won't listen, but I'll say it anyway. Release the next updates with no DRM. Period. I can't say that I would want to buy your product(I bought studio, but I'm now unsure if I want to put money into what now seems like an inferior product) knowing what could potentially happen. Passive or not. I'd really hate to near completion on a licensed program and not be able to do anything with it because of misguided DRM. You know that it's coming down the line too (I can only assume that other's fear this, too).

I used gamemaker 8.1 and fell in love with it and bought GM:Studio because of a strong sense of loyalty to Yoyo and the user community that helped me build my games. I'm still loyal to the users and thank them. Since then, it's been weeks of heartbreak and folly due to no fault of my own. I don't want to be treated this way. Fix or not.

Edited by ryan1980, 30 November 2012 - 01:18 AM.

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#48 Nocturne

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:18 AM

You're involved in what once was an amazing concept of sharing and utilizing crowd sourced ideas and codes that people willfully gave up to help each other to what now is a DRM ladened trap to extort money from those who are still honest enough to pay for it. Your companies' paranoia will be the downfall of this and your cat and mouse game with pirates will continue to affect everyone but the cat and the mouse.


Please, lets not exaggerate... Someone made a mistake, it has been admitted, and it has been fixed. End of story. there is no "DRM Laden trap" and I don't believe that anyone from YoYo games beat down your door and threatened your grandma "to extort money" from you to buy GM:Studio. Yes, it was a bad idea, yes it shouldn't have happened... However instead of berating them for this, you should also be thanking them for the VERY quick admission and fix. this is something admirable given the embarrasing situation that they are in and the media backlash. Many companies would have tried to worm out of the situation or just hidden but these guys haven't.

The lesson has been learned, an apology has been given, and the product has been improved... what more do you want?
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#49 Arusiasotto

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 11:03 AM

...Cookies and ponies? Oh, and bat'leths :3
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#50 Khornel

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:09 PM

The lesson has been learned, an apology has been given, and the product has been improved... what more do you want?

I think it's obvious what he wants; he wants the folks at YoYoGames to stop focusing on piracy altogether and start just making their product better.

Annoying a few crackers and inevitably screwing over your legitimate customers will never be as profitable as building a solid product and a good reputation. I completely understand why you would hate pirates but spending any time at all on them is time wasted, it's just blind rage. It won't make any difference. Why not spend that time on acquiring legitimate customers who will recommend the product to their friends? This DRM business is doing the exact opposite. People who pirate GameMaker will most certainly not buy it just because the DRM is annoying, but serious customers will probably avoid it because of this.

I'm so sick of how exaggerated DRM has become. I can't count the number of times I've had to crack software I bought legitimately, simply because the DRM did nothing but break the software. If you want to protect your software use non-intrusive, dead simple methods like CD-keys or user logins, anything else is just shooting yourself in the foot.
Besides I've never heard of any pirate quitting because the DRM was too hard to get around, but I've seen people stop pirating because of services like Steam, Netflix and Spotify. Services that make life easier for the legitimate customers instead of just battling the pirates and that pays off in the end.

People are quick to equate pirating to store theft. In that line of thought these DRM methods are like running around all day harassing people in your store because you find them suspicious. The only outcome will be pissing off and losing a lot customers, just to get rid of a few thieves.
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#51 FX62

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:38 PM

Just my opinion... They've admitted that the segment of DRM they used was a bad idea. It caused problems for many, they've apologized, removed it, which is more than some companies out there would do. Overly aggressive DRM is not something I use, simply because I myself find that inputting a forty plus character serial key to be a pain as do my customers. So mine is short and simple. It keeps my customers happy and that's important, at least for me. For YoYo, I'm sure they've learned. They have an excellent product, I've accepted their apology and it's time to move on. Just remember to always backup your work, especially before every upgrade/update. I don't expect them to remove all the DRM protection they have on their product, they have to make a living too. I'm sure there will be a rebuttal on my post, but so be it.
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#52 Khornel

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:07 PM

I don't expect them to remove all the DRM protection they have on their product, they have to make a living too.

Neither do I, but I had hoped that they would lighten up on the piracy witch hunt and focus more and the product. But that seems not to be the case, since every apology has been accompanied with a remark on battling piracy, like it's the worst thing in the world, which is the kind of thinking that started this whole thing.
I would also like to remark that DRM is not some magic way of making money. It seeks to hinder piracy, but that doesn't mean you'll suddenly start making a tonne of cash. If you want make a living you should make a good product, not integrate some fancy DRM scheme.
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#53 FX62

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:10 PM


I don't expect them to remove all the DRM protection they have on their product, they have to make a living too.

Neither do I, but I had hoped that they would lighten up on the piracy witch hunt and focus more and the product. But that seems not to be the case, since every apology has been accompanied with a remark on battling piracy, like it's the worst thing in the world, which is the kind of thinking that started this whole thing.
I would also like to remark that DRM is not some magic way of making money. It seeks to hinder piracy, but that doesn't mean you'll suddenly start making a tonne of cash. If you want make a living you should make a good product, not integrate some fancy DRM scheme.


The argument over DRM has been going on for years and it'll never end. Do I think that a fancy one of a kind DRM's will make those who pirate pay? Maybe a small amount, but there will never be a bullet proof solution. My point is though, they've removed the offending part of the DRM that was causing everyone grief. They have an excellent product, at least from my viewpoint and it's time to move on. This thread could go on for years, but it won't accomplish anything for either side of the issue.

Edited by FX62, 30 November 2012 - 07:47 PM.

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#54 icuurd12b42

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:30 PM

From my experience, people that use cracks would likely never have bought the product in the first place. And this is hinted to in a prior post, people that feel they need to have everything on their system yet never really use any of it. Everyone knows this guy at work who boasts he has everything! Code pushers in my days would bring CDs filled with 100s of cracked products. Now they just tell you a link to download it from.

My experience is the moment you get serious about using a product, most of us would buy it. And from my experience, the more your product is pirated, the more sales you end up having. It has little effect on initial sales but has a beneficial effect in the long run, because people who would never had bought it in the first place will see the value and convert to be legit.

GM is not a game, it is a tool, different rules apply, I would never encourage this philosophy for a game.

And yoyo does have a community which people log on to to be helped and be converted to legit users. A lot can be done here on the GMC, a lot more than a smart piece of DRM code would.
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#55 ryan1980

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 08:58 PM


The lesson has been learned, an apology has been given, and the product has been improved... what more do you want?

I think it's obvious what he wants; he wants the folks at YoYoGames to stop focusing on piracy altogether and start just making their product better.


Indeed, that is what I want.

If legit copies have legit DRM on them

and only legit users use legit copies...

then only legit users have to deal BS DRM schemes.

That is reality and there is no mention of pirates and piracy in that syllogism. As a legit user I'm telling you to STOP using DRM because it only ever affect people like me.
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#56 Arusiasotto

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 09:18 PM

Indeed, that is what I want.

If legit copies have legit DRM on them

and only legit users use legit copies...

then only legit users have to deal BS DRM schemes.

That is reality and there is no mention of pirates and piracy in that syllogism. As a legit user I'm telling you to STOP using DRM because it only ever affect people like me.


I mentioned in another thread about a friend who got the skulls. I told him "Avast ye harty, the store be that a way!"
So yes, pirates are also affected. You just obviously don't see them in the thread complaining about how YoYo has ruined their life and kicked their puppy.
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#57 ryan1980

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:54 PM


Indeed, that is what I want.

If legit copies have legit DRM on them

and only legit users use legit copies...

then only legit users have to deal BS DRM schemes.

That is reality and there is no mention of pirates and piracy in that syllogism. As a legit user I'm telling you to STOP using DRM because it only ever affect people like me.


I mentioned in another thread about a friend who got the skulls. I told him "Avast ye harty, the store be that a way!"
So yes, pirates are also affected. You just obviously don't see them in the thread complaining about how YoYo has ruined their life and kicked their puppy.


Pirates should a non issue to GM. They exist. They are a constant. They will break the DRM code at some point, and that will be that. It's inevitable and failing that, they will group together and build around gamemaker and just make it compatible to whatever they build. (This is already happening, btw...) As others have said, it is an endless regress. Gm can add all the new integers they want and it will never end. And other developers and coders will just surpass them, and make it free and open source (Again, already happening...)

As I said before, I don't hold any malice towards Yoyo at all. I get it- It was a mistake on their part and they won't do it again. Fine, I accept their apology, but in fixing this, they should aim to remove all of the cancer, as it is the only way to make sure that **** like this doesn't happen again.

Edited by ryan1980, 30 November 2012 - 11:07 PM.

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#58 chance

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 11:16 PM

From my experience, people that use cracks would likely never have bought the product in the first place.

My experience is that potential customers who can easily download pirated/cracked copies without fear of consequences, will do so -- instead of buying. So I don't fault YoYo Games at all for using DRM protection. They'd be foolish to ignore piracy.

Mike and Russell have personally apologized for the screw-up, so we should accept their apology and move on.

Edited by chance, 30 November 2012 - 11:19 PM.

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#59 Debels

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 11:25 PM

I have a suggestion to YoYo:

When you finish improving the way you detect cracked GM:Studios versions then do the following:

When cracked users are compiling there games add a line or something that indicates there version is cracked and then contact publishers such as Google Play, Amazon and Apple Store about this so they add a check when users upload there games checking if the cracked tag or something is there and if it is then they contact you and the game gets removed and you take action and such.

This is what most programs and boards do to prevent users from using cracked versions.

Edited by Debels, 30 November 2012 - 11:27 PM.

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#60 icuurd12b42

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 12:24 AM


From my experience, people that use cracks would likely never have bought the product in the first place.

My experience is that potential customers who can easily download pirated/cracked copies without fear of consequences, will do so -- instead of buying.

I worked in anti piracy for 4 years. My experience is to let it go for this sort of product... and reap the long term benefits... like Microsoft did (even if they did fight all the way). Today's pirates are tomorrows customers.

Banking on piracy is better than trying to stop it. There is only one way to protect a product usefully, and that is to link it to a online service. You pay for the service, not the binary.

You can't play the "potential loss" card. it is not loss to not make a sell to someone who never would buy it in the first place. And for the people you mention, either they buy later, or they burn in hell (lol)

So I don't fault YoYo Games at all for using DRM protection. They'd be foolish to ignore piracy.

I dont fault Yoyo myself, well aside from destroying user content (tongue in cheek), ah well, it's OK, we all make mistakes... The blunder will probably serve to scare people away from getting a cracked copy come to think of it. So well played!!
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