Protection issues - Crashes and Skulls.
Posted 26 November 2012 - 05:01 PM
I totally understand that those who have paid for GameMaker and are getting this are feeling very upset by the whole matter, and I can only apologise for the problems. As to why it’s in there should be reasonably clear. GameMaker has traditionally been one of the most pirated programs around, and it’s simply not right that some pay good money for it, while others simply pirate it. We try hard to make it as smooth an experience as possible for paying users, but are constantly fighting pirates understanding of the protection systems.
We’d LOVE to be able to remove the protection completely, but we know that vast numbers would simply copy it if it was that easy. There are many levels to the current protection system, and while many are visible like this, there are also many hidden so that we can always tell when a final game was created with a crack.
We expect an update to go out tomorrow to remove this protection, and will move away from the “destructive” protection like this, to more passive methods to help protect innocent users who through no fault of their own, somehow trigger it.
As to why we don’t just switch into FREE mode, this is because crackers can simply activate features while the program is running, so doing this serves no purpose other than to annoy paying customers.
We're obviously well aware of this issue, so I'll close the other threads and you can feel free to attach yourself to this one. We'll keep you updated as things develop, and assure you we are working to get a new version out to you as soon as we can.
Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:25 PM
Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:51 PM
I completely support most methods to combat piracy. I really hate piracy because God forbid, if I don't buy that next module or that next iteration of GameMaker, Mike or Russell won't be able to feed themselves and I won't let that happen.
I actually know of people who believe in the notion that software should always be free, it is really staggering that these are their excuses to pirate.
Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:56 PM
Or is this crashing a totally different issue?
Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:03 PM
A certain number will NEVER buy - EVER! These folks are basically crooks, and you can not count these as lost sales. No matter how "cheap" you make it, some will simply never buy. A good case in point is the current sale. for $50, you can get pro+html5. This means your getting a massive 75% off, and Pro for $25 (about £15). This is incredibly cheap, yet I know lots of them will keep just stealing if they possibly can.
We simply don't care about them, but if I can piss them off, I will.
At the same time, there are some who simply can't afford it, and we want to encourage them to buy whenever possible. Sales like the current one (and I'm sure future ones) are a great chance for these folk to get on the ladder (as it were), but I realise some will simply never manage. I hold nothing against folk like this. Cheap for us, is not cheap for everyone.
Then there are the last load, who will copy because it's easy, so why bother buying. These are the ones who WILL buy, if they get annoyed enough with cracks that don't work correctly, or when they realise they can't release anything without being found out - because yes... we KNOW what games are created with cracks. So these are mainly the ones we look to convert with things like this. These and the previous group are the ones we care about. Those who never buy, will copy stuff mainly to just to say they "have it", and won't usually do anything with it (although some might). But these other 2 groups, are the ones who would like to do something, and we'd like them to buy where ever possible.
For those who can't afford it. We have a free version, and if coded correctly, you can make anything. We've left in specific "gaps" to allow you to do some large projects if you try.We also have Standard, which we let you upgrade to Pro for the difference in price. We might try and do more later, but this is the best we can do for now.
For those who CAN afford it, but find it just as easy to copy it. Well, rest assured, we know the games which get made, and if something does well.... I'm sure we'll be in touch.
I understand crackers doing it too. It's a challenge, and it's fun. Also the praise you get form folk wanting to use it, can be somewhat intoxicating. Being told by so many that your amazing or awesome, is always a great feeling. I have respect for those that crack it, and don't release it, and even for those that crack it, but "mark" the result in some way to make it obvious the user used a crack. This lets folk try it, but they know they can't truly use it. But these crackers are rare, which is a shame.
So yes.... we can never "win". Hardware dongles can be cracked and removed, all software can be "fixed". Only "online" can reduce piracy properly, and even that can be removed by some dedicated hacker. That said, the more the world moves online, the easier it gets to block, but we're not there yet, so we do what we can.
I said it before. If I could remove the DRM and know we'd get the same or more sales, I'd do it in a heart beat. I have HUGE respect for those that provide totally DRM free software, but for now, GameMaker is simply pirated too much.
I'm rambling now... Well... when I say NOW... I mean I have been for some time.
Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:55 PM
I also have a method for protecting the development tool if you want to know it, PM me. From this experiment, I'm gather there is someone at yoyo that is interested on the subject of piracy protection.
Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:25 AM
Here's an idea, make the program compile the code on your server...
Here I am assuming you're referring to the YoYoGames server.
This is a terrible idea when it comes to those of us who don't have a dedicated internet connection. Every once in a while I have to DL the license file, and so far that has worked well, even though at first I was hoping I wouldn't have to do that. This means I have to make a specific trip in to town to DL this file. Fine, I can live with that.
But then I've heard comments on here similar to this one, I paraphrase it very loosely:
"If you're serious about making games, then blah-dee-blah-blah [i.e. then you should also be serious about your internet connection]."
And no, that comment does not apply to some of us who are out of reach of conventional internet connections, living in a deep valley without cable internet or stable satellite or other over-the-air connection.
And aside from that, there are still large populations on this planet who pay heavily for each meg downloaded/uploaded. Cable-or-other-high-speed internet connection is a privilege, which sadly, is taken for granted by too many people both in the USA and Europe (and elsewhere, I assume but I've mainly had experience with those two).
Anywho, just my two pennies on that particular thought.
Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:51 AM
Note that I implicitly stated code compilation, expressing only the code would be sent to the server... About 200K of text (your code), coming back as byte code (smaller than source) to be build into the exe with the local resources (Megabytes stay local). Even a dialup connection can handle that.
And it would only do this when you make an exe
>>This means I have to make a specific trip in to town to DL this file. Fine, I can live with that.
That is sad. Do you not have at least a 56Kb modem access from home? Like we did in the 80's. 200K source + 75K return would take 45 seconds to transmit and receive.
Wait a minute... you are online now? Do you have to drive to town for that?
Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:06 AM
...Do you not have at least a 56Kb modem access from home?...
No landline at home. Have a cellphone with an awful connection at home but fine in town/elsewhere.
...Wait a minute... you are online now? Do you have to drive to town for that?
Online at work /> (And no, I'm not installing GM at work! /> /> )
Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:28 AM
Edited by angryempath, 27 November 2012 - 02:28 AM.
Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:55 AM
Posted 27 November 2012 - 06:19 AM
Edited by Big J, 27 November 2012 - 06:20 AM.
Posted 27 November 2012 - 07:38 AM
This protection has been in for some time, and does help keep pirates busy trying to figure out how to remove it, but I also agree it's unacceptable that it's effecting paying users - which is why this particular check is being removed just now.
If I thought for one minute we were going to effect customers, I'd never have put it in. Something we simply didn't expect has been happening on end users machines, and while we think we now know, again, I agree, customers should never - ever - be effected by it.
Of course, how I feel about effecting pirates project files is less...err... clear.
Remember the goal is to drive pirates to buy, and if they think a copy will destroy their game, that's a pretty strong incentive. However, we'll make sure our concern for paying customers now takes precedence over trying to force a sale from a pirate - which will probably not happen anyway.
We've become blinkered a little in trying to stay one step ahead, and for that I totally apologise, there are certainly other ways of doing this.
Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:35 AM
Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:05 PM
Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:31 PM
Would be nice to get a official solution rather then a discussion on the importance of DRM!! />
Oh, and I'm running WIndows 8 with version 1.1.666 after fresh intstall (and the folder/registry cleanup) and I still have the S & B's in my sprites.
Edited by Robto, 27 November 2012 - 02:33 PM.
Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:38 PM
I tested it running Steam in both offline and online modes and it crashes the same.
I'm using Windows 7.
I have tried deleting Game Maker through Steam and redownloading/installing it but that didn't change anything.
I have not tried deleting the appdata and reinstalling; I'll try that next and update this post if it made any difference.
Also, probably unrelated, but a few days ago it did give me the skulls using the free Studio version on Steam but it only happened once and thankfully I didn't save.
Finally and almost completely unrelated but I really feel you should know that the way Game Maker Studio is sold on Steam, if the software is uninstalled (delete local files) from Steam, like I just did, then it is wholly removed from your Steam library. I think it's because everything you buy is DLC for the free product but that was disconcerting to me but re-downloading the free version put it back in my Steam library. I'm sure it's not your fault but it's probably something you'd want to change or get Steam to fix as I can see a lot of complaints coming from that.
It still crashed for me but it took quite a bit longer this time... so... progress? Anyway, I'll wait for the update.
Edited by plural, 27 November 2012 - 03:02 PM.
Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:36 PM
@Steam: yes... the free one is actually the ONLY download, and it's all unlocked digitally once it's run.
Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:41 PM
skull all over my screen. hope the fix comes soon.
Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:44 PM
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