75 replies to this topic

[makerofthegames]

It's also used in Canada.

Used but not enforced.

PEGI is only legally enforced in Austria, France, Iceland, Israel, Lithuania, Netherlands, Slovenia, and Great Britain.

[Lune]

I happen to think this is a step in the right direction. I'm not normally a fan of big government, but this is the way to do it.

In the states, we have a law where children seventeen and under have to be accompanied by an adult if they intend to see a rated-R movie. It's the same thing here. Nobody's freedoms are being suppressed, it's just ensuring that minors have their parent or guardian's permission.

Hell, we do the same with (extra-city) bus, train and airplane rides. Minors are allowed to travel alone if a legal adult is present to drop them off.

So, yeah, I think this is fine and dandy. I'll get all up in arms when government tries to keep young kids from playing mature games completely, but this is nothing near that.

[ugriffin]

I believe PEGI is here to stay. It has the support of the games industry, and many government and non-government groups. I think the reason is that PEGI supporters don't "demonize" video games, and blame the industry for society's problems. It's modest and balanced attempt to provide some age-related guidelines, without trying to overly restrict the industry.

Nobody is demonising PEGI. PEGI, like ESRB, is merely a rating system. What people are complaining about is local laws related to PEGI. PEGI is merely a rating body that is not related to the EU (although the EU officially encourages adoption) and thus on its own holds no legal strength whatsoever. Rather, it's what each country decides to do with it that counts. Just like ESRB is the same across North America, but local laws related to ESRB vary.

I lived in French Canada for two years and I never once saw a single PEGI rated game. Canada is firmly entrenched in ESRB and ESRB ratings for French Canadian games are bilingual, I've got a bunch of french canadian games. Maybe some obscure games imported from France might have PEGI, but I never once saw it in my life.

The UK isn't Stalinist Russia, but have you ever heard of the term creeping fascism? Once again, I don't have anything against this law in particular, but rather, I am against how the whole 'save the children' argument is taken to the extremes. Children were fine before, they should be fine now. All of these videogame and Internet regulation laws are yet another case of a moral panic from people who don't understand the mediums. Just like radio, TV, and cinema were antagonised back when they were new mediums.

[chance]

...have you ever heard of the term creeping fascism?

Yes. Usually associated with the term "delusional paranoia".

The availability of adult content through internet, movies, and games is increasing far more rapidly than the laws that regulate it. The providers of adult content are WAY ahead of any laws. It's easier than ever for children to access adult content -- and it gets easier every day.

So claiming this is "creeping fascism" isn't supported by the facts.

[Scoutaloo]

When I first read this, I got really agitated at how stupid governments can be. But after reading most of the posts in this thread(especially Lune's), I think it's okay. I don't like it, and I think it's mainly useless, but I'm okay with it. I mean, it's not like it's now impossible for a kid to play a 17+ game, it just has to be purchased by their parents.

Still, I think the government has better things to do than pass laws that makes it harder for a kid to play a violent video game. Not to mention that it really shouldn't be up to the government what games kids want to play.

Edited by Scoutaloo, 08 August 2012 - 03:42 AM.

[makerofthegames]

PEGI's not that bad, I'm just waiting for the international law that requires all citizens to get a barcode tattooed on the back of their necks.

[nearlyNonexistent]

The main thing I have with this is... why PEGI?
PEGI is too over-protective.
ESRB is too under-protective.

[Chocolate Lab]

ebay...

[nearlyNonexistent]

ebay...

Thank you for that non-random and totally relevant statement that is a complete sentence.

[Super Guy]

I hope the ESRB and the government don't even think about doing this.

Edited by Super Guy, 08 August 2012 - 09:57 AM.

[Lukasmah]

Glad I´m not in the UK.

What is so wrong about virtual violence?
It´s not like it´s real...

I hate violence in real life, but I enjoy playing mortal kombat. And not just violence. Swearing, sex and drugs get the game boosted to 18. Find a 10 - 18 YO who knows absolutely nothing about this topic and you get my respect.

Edited by Lukasmah, 08 August 2012 - 10:48 AM.

[chance]

What is so wrong about virtual violence?

Nothing. Nobody said there's anything wrong with it. And neither PEGI nor the UK government claims it's "bad".

But whether a child can access it is something parents should decide -- not some game vendor.

Edited by chance, 08 August 2012 - 11:52 AM.

[Rusty]

I can't agree with this, at all. It's very hard to determine a child's age by looking at them between 10-18 because frankly, thay's when they begin to really develop as individuals. Asking an 18 year old to carry ID to buy 18 games? That's fine, I mean, an 18 year old naturally carries ID, asking 15 year olds to carry ID... I mean... okay I guess. Asking a 12 year old kid to go out carrying ID is just stupid now, and threatening retailers with prison sentences for something so minor is more than stupid.

If anybody, ANYBODY, can tell me the real threat that 12+ rating actually protect children from, why Guitar Hero is such an evil tool for kids under 12, then this entire thing may have a point, but as it stands, it doesn't.

- As far as I can tell, it protects kids from the cartoon violence they see on every (10+ targetted) kid's TV channel.

- A singular use of a "non-offensive" curse word (are they even curse words if they aren't considered offensive?)

- Sexual actions of a non-sexual nature (such as a character thrusting the air)

Now I can respect that parents want to protect their children and I'm all up for protecting the children... within reason. If you want to protect your child, install surveillance software on their computers, take a look at who they're contacting and who they THINK they're contacting, there are real dangers out there, real dangers that can be addressed and frankly, 12+ games is not one of them. Threatening anybody with a prison sentence over this is not acceptable.

[Keypress]

Uncharted two would have gotten an M rating but they avoided it by not letting you shoot fish and toning down ragdoll effects. I'll just drop that in here, along with the sentiment of how companies will censor themselves to get a lower rating.

[ugriffin]

The availability of adult content through internet, movies, and games is increasing far more rapidly than the laws that regulate it. The providers of adult content are WAY ahead of any laws. It's easier than ever for children to access adult content -- and it gets easier every day.

Bollocks. Haven't you heard stories from your parents, hell, from your grandparents about how they got porn and related stuff back in the day where Internet didn't even exist? The truth is that this has been going on ever since the beginning of time, and anyone who tries to deny it is being a victim of the paranoia you complain about. This is just the latest moral panic in the content industry's history... once the current politicians who have never played a game in their life die off, I can assure you all of this stuff won't be heard about. Or have you heard about further censoring laws for movies? Do you even *need* an ID to get a violent movie these days?

Now, for my delusional paranoia, that's the whole point of creeping fascism, the fact that it's not intentional and there's no 'grand conspiracy' going on... there's just more and more regulation (stemming from moral panics, crises, and whatnot) until one day you find all your freedom's gone. I can assure you, that some laws, in both your country and mine, aren't exactly the hallmark of a free, democratic country.

[ImmortalMan]

Jail time for selling a kid what's basically a T game's pretty harsh. I'd agree with them more if it was about M games, but other than that It doesn't seem that bad.

[Rusty]

Uncharted two would have gotten an M rating but they avoided it by not letting you shoot fish and toning down ragdoll effects. I'll just drop that in here, along with the sentiment of how companies will censor themselves to get a lower rating.

Manhunt 2 is the best example of this, it had to be edited like hell to even be rated after being rejected and banned by the BBFC, USK and IFCO. After cutting the holy hell out the damn game, which was targetted at adults anyway, it was allowed 18's and M's (dropped form it's AO status from ESRB, the only rating company to actually give the unedited version a rating).

Edit:
The rating companies pretty much blockaded Rockstar there. They went way out of their way to ensure that nobody, adults or children, could play the unedited version of the game, which is a little weird since I thought it was my right as an adult to choose what content I wanted to see. All my freedom and what not.

Edited by Rusty, 08 August 2012 - 03:44 PM.

[makerofthegames]

The availability of adult content through internet, movies, and games is increasing far more rapidly than the laws that regulate it. The providers of adult content are WAY ahead of any laws. It's easier than ever for children to access adult content -- and it gets easier every day.

Bollocks. Haven't you heard stories from your parents, hell, from your grandparents about how they got porn and related stuff back in the day where Internet didn't even exist? The truth is that this has been going on ever since the beginning of time, and anyone who tries to deny it is being a victim of the paranoia you complain about. This is just the latest moral panic in the content industry's history... once the current politicians who have never played a game in their life die off, I can assure you all of this stuff won't be heard about. Or have you heard about further censoring laws for movies? Do you even *need* an ID to get a violent movie these days?

So you deny that the availability of adult content through internet, movies, and games is increasing far more rapidly than the laws that regulate it? That it's easier than ever for children to access adult content -- and it gets easier every day?

You really don't think any of that is true?

[Rusty]

So you deny that the availability of adult content through internet, movies, and games is increasing far more rapidly than the laws that regulate it? That it's easier than ever for children to access adult content -- and it gets easier every day?

You really don't think any of that is true?

There is already ways for parents to regulate the internet, there are plenty of applications that allow people to block sites, making this kind of material harder to find, there is a function on my xBox (which I've accidently turned on once) that stops my xBox from playing games of certain ratings and from certain times. The tools to regulate this stuff is already here, people just can't be bothered or don't know how to use them.

[ugriffin]

You really don't think any of that is true?

I don't. True, these days you don't need to walk to the corner shop to get a porn mag or to the video store for a porn video, so it's less of a hassle to get these things. Doesn't mean it wasn't easy back in the day (ask older peeps), or that there's any more these days. It simply means you get to skip the walk for those things. Before, kids used to smuggle mags to school, now they just smuggle their phones. Different times, different methods, but the underlying objective is the same.

As for violence, again, people in the 1800's complained about violent or suggestive books and theatre, people in the 1900's about movies (and later on rock and roll and the whole counterculture movement which 'incited' kids to do drugs). Don't you get it? People fear what they don't understand. Which is why there's an almost universal fear of death. As I've mentioned, just like the book, theatre, cinema, and rock naysayers, videogame and internet naysayers will eventally die off as the world moves on and the medium is understood. History is awesome like that.

And, like a lot of people suggested, an internet filter will do the job just fine. If you insist on 'protecting' kids.