535 replies to this topic

[makerofthegames]

Unfortunately, most religious people use little to no evidence when backing up their claims.

I wouldn't say most.

On the other side of the coin, I've seen some truly terrible arguments from a few atheists here that basically boil down to "I believe it because I believe it."
It's the exact terrible logic that a lot of people are fighting in the less thought provoked religious people here.

Edited by makerofthegames, 28 June 2012 - 08:39 PM.

[Smarty]

On the other side of the coin, I've seen some truly terrible arguments from a few atheists here that basically boil down to "I believe it because I believe it."

Any examples?

[makerofthegames]

Any examples?

I can't tell if you really don't believe any atheist on this forum would not be firm in his/her beliefs. That would be naive. I'll just assume you're bored and want me to do work.

*And several minutes later*

Couldn't find any specific examples. Know what? Couldn't find any specific examples of a Christian stating that "they believe because they believe it" and I know I've seen this and I'm sure you've seen it. People who don't think out their beliefs are annoying, and I don't keep a bookmark of every single logical failure anyone makes so it's very difficult for me to find any specific examples.

What a waste of time..

[Smarty]

I can't tell if you really don't believe any atheist on this forum would not be firm in his/her beliefs. That would be naive. I'll just assume you're bored and want me to do work.

I'm sure atheists can be firm in their world view. You're the one saying you've heard "truly terrible arguments that basically boil down to they believe because they believe it". That's something entirely different. Don't move the goalposts. Examples please. I want to see what you base your rather crude accusation on.

*And several minutes later*

Couldn't find any specific examples. Know what? Couldn't find any specific examples of a Christian stating that "they believe because they believe it" and I know I've seen this and I'm sure you've seen it.

I haven't, actually. But even if I had, I wouldn't care. Because unlike you, I'm not interested in crossing them out against each other. I just wanted to hear the terrible arguments for atheism you speak of.

[makerofthegames]

I can't tell if you really don't believe any atheist on this forum would not be firm in his/her beliefs. That would be naive. I'll just assume you're bored and want me to do work.

I'm sure atheists can be firm in their world view. You're the one saying you've heard "truly terrible arguments that basically boil down to they believe because they believe it". That's something entirely different. Don't move the goalposts. Examples please. I want to see what you base your rather crude accusation on.

Are you trolling me? You don't believe any atheist has ever not been firm in their belief? You don't think there's any 12 year old here who would state that they believe something because they believe it? You're new to this whole internet thing, aren't you?

Because unlike you, I'm not interested in crossing them out against each other.

I don't even know what this means.

Edited by makerofthegames, 28 June 2012 - 09:55 PM.

[chance]

I respect Christians who base their faith on their own spiritual feelings, and their reading of the Bible, and are satisfied with that. Their feelings of spirituality are the only "proof" they need. They don't need to justify their faith to anybody else.

On the other hand, I don't really respect so-called evidence like "he must exist because where else did we come from?"... or "look at all the order in the Universe", etc. None of these arguments prove anything to me.

You don't become a believer from empirical evidence. You become a believer because you feel something spiritual -- and you choose to believe. Some choose organized religion. Others choose deism, or just their own spiritualism. Either way it's a choice believers make for themselves -- not something dictated by logic.

[makerofthegames]

On the other hand, I don't really respect so-called evidence like "he must exist because where else did we come from?"... or "look at all the order in the Universe", etc. None of these arguments prove anything to me.

I've seen people on this forum basically say "I believe it because I believe it" or something like that. I've also seen some atheists (probably about as smart) say about the same thing about their belief. The only thing I was saying with my post is that these arguments are, well, stupid. They should think out why they believe what they believe.

Edited by makerofthegames, 28 June 2012 - 10:02 PM.

[Smarty]

Are you trolling me?

Are you playing stupid?

You don't believe any atheist has ever not been firm in their belief?

How about you read my reply for a change? I said that I am sure they can be. What did I also say? That it isn't the same thing as believing because they believe it. You can be firm in your belief for very good reasons.

You don't think there's any 12 year old here who would state that they believe something because they believe it? You're new to this whole internet thing, aren't you?

How very nice to downplay on age. Plenty of 12-year-olds can make up their minds, you know.

Because unlike you, I'm not interested in crossing them out against each other.

I don't even know what this means.

Then let me explain. You want to make the claim that some atheists here use terrible arguments that boil down to believing because they believe it. I want examples. You can't find any, and for some reason you think you can get out of this claim by stating believers do this too. Just also not in this thread.

And I'm saying that it doesn't matter to me whether believers do it, I simply wanted to hear what terrible arguments you heard from atheists. I'm sure that being the reasonable not-bearing-false-witness kind of guy you'd help me out.

[makerofthegames]

I simply wanted to hear what terrible arguments you heard from atheists.

"I believe because I believe it."

You can be firm in your belief for very good reasons.

Never said you couldn't be.

How very nice to downplay on age. Plenty of 12-year-olds can make up their minds, you know.

When did I generalize?

Are you playing stupid?

Are you?

Smarty, you have seriously missed what I said somewhere. I'm not interested in getting into a pissing contest with you, so believe what you want to believe about what I'm trying to say.

[Scoutaloo]

You two are no longer arguing about anything. Oh, and what's this? -repping his post? Well done Smarty. Done like a true sir.

Edited by Scoutaloo, 30 June 2012 - 03:03 AM.

[chance]

Smarty, <snip> I'm not interested in getting into a pissing contest with you...

I'm not exactly sure what a "pissing contest" is... but it sounds really interesting.

Smarty has good pissing accuracy and range. But makerofthegames has lots of piss volume. So it could be a close contest.

.

Edited by chance, 29 June 2012 - 02:18 AM.

[Erik Leppen]

I'd very much appreciate if we could leave out the stupid reputation discussion out of this topic. Use the reputation system an any post you want, but please keep it out of the discussion. I open this topic because I want to see a discussion on "your religious beliefs", not on posts attacking people because of some stupid vote system. It's off topic, it adds absolutely nothing, it annoys me and it's pedantic. If you want to discuss the reputation system, go elsewhere. And if you want to discuss someone's vote, send them a PM. It's really not worth discussing in public. Thank you.

[NukeTheCat]

I don't know what's happening, but can I ask something?

This is the title of the topic:

Your Religious Beliefs ... if any

But atheist aren't a religion (according to them, no offence, just trying to point out something).
And at the same time we have this answer - "absolutely convinced no deity exists"

So if this topic is for people who believe in a religion, why is atheism one of the answers?

[chance]

So if this topic is for people who believe in a religion, why is atheism one of the answers?

It's not a topic just for believers. That's why it says "...if any".

"If any" implies you may not have religious beliefs. That's the reason for the last three categories.

.

Edited by chance, 29 June 2012 - 12:28 PM.

[NukeTheCat]

I thought 'if any' meant 'If you believe in a religion, state it'. But atheism isn't a religion.
So the last 3 is classified as a absence of belief, right?

[chance]

So the last 3 is classified as a absence of belief, right?

When I chose wording like:

-- do not believe
-- very skeptical about the possibility
-- convinced no deity exists,

I thought those last three categories would be pretty clear.

Edited by chance, 30 June 2012 - 10:21 AM.