16 replies to this topic

[Rusty]

What... exactly... is the difference...? The games have to be on the YYG host?

[@Alex@]

Did you read the section description, it's a discussion forum not a "Hey here's my game" forum. It's for talking about the Sandbox rather than posting games. I don't know why it exists but that's what it says.

[Rusty]

I read the rules and saw the posts, it seems to be a rather pointless forum, designed to divide the already limited traffic to the creations forums...

Edit:

This forum is ONLY for discussions relevant to the YoYo Games Sandbox. For GML discussions, personal discussions or even suggestion, please post in the other forums that are specific for these topics.

You may post your Sandbox games here but ONLY if they are not posted anywhere else on the Community.

You may request that a game posted in the Completed Games Forum be moved to the Sandbox by simply reporting the topic and asking a mod to move it.

Do NOT post to ask people to play your game. Post to advertise your game with screenshots and a a link and if people are interested they will play it, but topics that are simply to say "play my game" will be removed by the moderators.

Do NOT post to talk about your next big game or your current work in progress, only completed games are permitted.

I understand that people need a place to discuss games that are on the sandbox but not the GMC, but if the author is on the GMC, and has the ability to post in the creations topic, shouldn't they be limited to that? Otherwise you're just needlessly dividing traffic from the other games on the GMC.

Kinda seems like the GMC is trying to punish people who don't want to use the Sandbox.

Edited by Rusty, 03 June 2012 - 02:08 PM.

[RedChu]

The point of this board is to hold discussions related to the sandbox, be it about games hosted there or something else. You're not required to post your games in this board, but you can as long as they're hosted on the sandbox.

[Rusty]

The point of this board is to hold discussions related to the sandbox, be it about games hosted there or something else. You're not required to post your games in this board, but you can as long as they're hosted on the sandbox.

So basically... it's a creations topic with looser rules? Yes, I can see that helping all the developers on the Creations topic who are already struggling to get some feedback for their games. Why not just rename this the "YYGF Forum" and kill any benefit any developer not on the sandbox might have received from the merge?

[roytheshort]

So basically... it's a creations topic with looser rules? Yes, I can see that helping all the developers on the Creations topic who are already struggling to get some feedback for their games. Why not just rename this the "YYGF Forum" and kill any benefit any developer not on the sandbox might have received from the merge?

The Sandbox is owned by Yoyogames, anyone who uses Game Maker can upload their games there. This forum was made specifically so that games on the Sandbox could be advertised here. Also, not everyone who used the Sandbox used the Yoyogames forums. That is a blind assumption. 2DCube used the sandbox, don't recall him ever being active on those forums.

Also, I fail to see your point about it killing benefit for non-sandbox developers. The Sandbox isn't a restricted place, anyone can sign up there. So if a developer wants to they can sign up and upload their game there. It doesn't take long. And why would an extra forum remove the benefit anyway? I remember when the GMC had sections for each genre of game, they removed all those. I don't recall any developers being happy about that.

Some people also want Games from the Sandbox. Why? So they can be sure that they're safe, there's a virus scanner. So they can be sure they're Game Maker. And the Sandbox has a rating and review system, I don't recall mediafire or dropbox having that. So no, this isn't "basically the creations forum". This is for games that are on the Sandbox, because some people want games from the Sandbox.

Edited by roytheshort, 03 June 2012 - 06:10 PM.

[Nocturne]

The Sandbox is owned by Yoyogames, anyone who uses Game Maker can upload their games there. This forum was made specifically so that games on the Sandbox could be advertised here. Also, not everyone who used the Sandbox used the Yoyogames forums. That is a blind assumption. 2DCube used the sandbox, don't recall him ever being active on those forums.

Also, I fail to see your point about it killing benefit for non-sandbox developers. The Sandbox isn't a restricted place, anyone can sign up there. So if a developer wants to they can sign up and upload their game there. It doesn't take long. And why would an extra forum remove the benefit anyway? I remember when the GMC had sections for each genre of game, they removed all those. I don't recall any developers being happy about that.

Some people also want Games from the Sandbox. Why? So they can be sure that they're safe, there's a virus scanner. So they can be sure they're Game Maker. And the Sandbox has a rating and review system, I don't recall mediafire or dropbox having that. So no, this isn't "basically the creations forum". This is for games that are on the Sandbox, because some people want games from the Sandbox.

+1. Spot on with all you say... And I'd like to add, that the sandbox is not something marginal for YoYo games. It is important and even though it is not at the forefront of their site, that will probably change...

[Rusty]

The Sandbox is owned by Yoyogames, anyone who uses Game Maker can upload their games there. This forum was made specifically so that games on the Sandbox could be advertised here. Also, not everyone who used the Sandbox used the Yoyogames forums. That is a blind assumption. 2DCube used the sandbox, don't recall him ever being active on those forums.

MegaUpload was owned by MegaUpload, anybody using Game Maker could upload their games there. This forum was made so that people who don't want to use the sandbox would not be able to post here. Also, not everybody who uses GameMaker likes the Sandbox or wants to upload their games to it. I have used Mediafire and CrySet to upload my games, I don't see a forum for either of them. CrySet is a much better host than Sandbox, which working features and it's own rating system.

Also, I fail to see your point about it killing benefit for non-sandbox developers. The Sandbox isn't a restricted place, anyone can sign up there. So if a developer wants to they can sign up and upload their game there. It doesn't take long. And why would an extra forum remove the benefit anyway? I remember when the GMC had sections for each genre of game, they removed all those. I don't recall any developers being happy about that.

Mediafire isn't a restricted place, CrySet isn't a restricted place, any devs can sign up and upload their games there (except CrySet which does a quality check). It doesn't take long. Dividing traffic from "people who made the right choice" and "people who didn't use Sandbox" is stupid, we note separate CrySet from Mediafire from DropBox and every other site out there?

Yes, I was quite happy when the creations forum was split up into genres, why? Because I like RPG's and Platformers, I have more experience with RPGs and Platformers than any other game type and therefore, could offer more feedback on those genres of games. The genre sub-forums easily directed traffic to the type of games those users wanted to play and/or give feedback on. This, quite frankly, does nothing but say "hey! Guess which host we used?" which is a pointless way to divide traffic.

Some people also want Games from the Sandbox. Why? So they can be sure that they're safe, there's a virus scanner. So they can be sure they're Game Maker. And the Sandbox has a rating and review system, I don't recall mediafire or dropbox having that. So no, this isn't "basically the creations forum". This is for games that are on the Sandbox, because some people want games from the Sandbox.

And CrySet doesn't scan the games before they upload them? CrySet has a QUALITY check, so every game you download from that site, you know it'll be of at least decent quality. CrySet has a rating and review system, as well as many other hosting sites, so yes, this is basically the creations forum except with the big words "SANDBOX" sprayed everywhere to pointlessly divide traffic.

And I'd like to add, that the sandbox is not something marginal for YoYo games. It is important and even though it is not at the forefront of their site, that will probably change...

I understand that YYG might want to promote their own website, but I thought they were already encouraging us to upload to the Sandbox by placing links in their game design program. This forum is fairly pointless if all it's doing is promising me Sandbox links.

Actually, I'm fairly sure that the Sandbox still has it's own community to promote the site, it's the YGGF that went down, not YYG Internet.

Edited by Rusty, 03 June 2012 - 08:32 PM.

[icuurd12b42]

I'm also confused. we have a WIP and a Completed Games forums... Some/most of them are on yoyo's sandbox. Do I need to move my games here? Why?

[TeamSteeve]

Yeah, I have to agree with Rusty.
Why separate Sandbox games from the rest of them? If I want to look through some games to play, I'll most likely go to ONE of those forums, not both. so whichever one seems to offer better games is the one I'll probably end up using.
I don't know why the sandbox creations have to be separate from the rest of them.
Games is games is games to me. It doesn't matter where they're hosted. If the one who created the game on Sandbox doesn't use the GMC (or YYGMC or whatever it may be), but someone on here does want to discuss that game, couldn't that someone start up a topic for it?

[makerofthegames]

The sandbox forum is completely redundant, it splits up the traffic for no adequate reason and is inherently tacted on.

+1. Spot on with all you say...

No. No. *hits Nocturne on the head with a newspaper*

[Brawl]

Guys, this is to talk about the Sandbox in general. Not just the games there. I don't know that that leaves you to talk about honestly, but there yah go. If you have a suggestion about this section, post it in the suggestions section, not here.

[makerofthegames]

This isn't a suggestion. It isn't a suggestion to this specific forum when we suggest removing it. It's a suggestion to the forum as a whole.

As for the sandbox conversation, too specific. Pointless, redundant. People can already talk about the Sandbox in the Community section if they so please.
Your comment about it not just being about the games makes me assume that you concede that it's already ridiculously silly to have this about the games. It's just completely pointless in general.

[roytheshort]

MegaUpload was owned by MegaUpload, anybody using Game Maker could upload their games there. This forum was made so that people who don't want to use the sandbox would not be able to post here. Also, not everybody who uses GameMaker likes the Sandbox or wants to upload their games to it. I have used Mediafire and CrySet to upload my games, I don't see a forum for either of them. CrySet is a much better host than Sandbox, which working features and it's own rating system.

Yeah, not owned by Yoyogames. So it doesn't. So what if they don't like the sandbox? There is the other "Completed Games" forum. And if you're so sure of yourself that this is a useless section, then nobody will use it.

Mediafire isn't a restricted place, CrySet isn't a restricted place, any devs can sign up and upload their games there (except CrySet which does a quality check). It doesn't take long. Dividing traffic from "people who made the right choice" and "people who didn't use Sandbox" is stupid, we note separate CrySet from Mediafire from DropBox and every other site out there?

This forum wasn't made for the purpose of making games not on the sandbox have less views. You're missing the point. It was made as a way so Yoyogames get more usage out of something they're paying for. They're paying to host our games and you are complaining about them having their own section. Sure, use mediafire, but since YYG are out of pocket when hosting. I'm pretty sure they need a section here so it at least gets used.

You don't see a forum for each of them because they are not owned by Yoyogames. And Yoyogames would prefer it if you used their products. It costs money for them to host it and they're not getting any back from it, so why doesn't it doesn't it deserve a forum?

Yes, I was quite happy when the creations forum was split up into genres, why? Because I like RPG's and Platformers, I have more experience with RPGs and Platformers than any other game type and therefore, could offer more feedback on those genres of games. The genre sub-forums easily directed traffic to the type of games those users wanted to play and/or give feedback on. This, quite frankly, does nothing but say "hey! Guess which host we used?" which is a pointless way to divide traffic.

And considering a lot of people seem to hate the idea of a sandbox forum as well, it's clearly going to divide to your benefit. Also, you seem to be disregarding a lot of people are indifferent to host. They will likely go for sandbox and completed games equally. It changes nothing for them. No-one is going to think "Hey, the sandbox is awesome. I'm never using the completed games section!" That doesn't happen. If anything, this place will get less views and you will have the benefit.

And CrySet doesn't scan the games before they upload them? CrySet has a QUALITY check, so every game you download from that site, you know it'll be of at least decent quality. CrySet has a rating and review system, as well as many other hosting sites, so yes, this is basically the creations forum except with the big words "SANDBOX" sprayed everywhere to pointlessly divide traffic.

There are a few other things about the Sandbox that set it apart. It was made specifically for Game Maker users. It is owned by Yoyogames. Also, you mentioned later in your post the sandbox still has its own Game Maker orientated community. Doubt any of the other sites you mentioned have those.

Actually, I'm fairly sure that the Sandbox still has it's own community to promote the site, it's the YGGF that went down, not YYG Internet.

Then why suggest that we may as well rename this "YYGF Forum"? Don't contradict yourself.

And before you attack the point that YYG owns the sandbox, one of the main reasons you use the GMC is Game Maker. So telling me it wouldn't be different if YYG didn't own the sandbox is like me saying you wouldn't find it any different if the GMC was run by a Flash Games site. Not only that, but I don't want YYG to waste money, they have enough financial difficulties as it is without people not using their products. If more people use their products, the better it is for YYG, so even if a split will exist. (Which I severely doubt, because you said host is irrelevent, nobody will care where it is uploaded and there will be no split.) It will benefit YYG, which is a good thing. Don't you think?

This forum also allows discussion related to the sandbox, not just the games on the sandbox. Which would take into account YYG, the community and the GM games a lot more.

YYG is giving us free hosting at their cost. Stop complaining about YYG wanting us to notice it.

Edited by roytheshort, 04 June 2012 - 08:54 AM.

[TeamSteeve]

I really just think the Sandbox forum will separate the discussion on games too much.
I wouldn't mind if it existed to have only discussions in general about Sandbox but because people are able to discuss specific games here, it just makes more work for people trying to get some feedback on their games and also for people looking for feedback on games that they might like to play.

If I made a game and wanted to get feedback on it, previously I could just post it in the completed games forum, but I expect that some people that were looking for games to play would look in the Sandbox forum and not completed games. So I would obviously want to start a topic in the Sandbox forum to discuss the game. Then I'd be getting feedback from two different forums and the people looking on those forums wouldn't see other peoples comments on the forum they're not participating in, and I'd probably end up having the same discussion with different people etc.
It's just doubling up, when it would be much better just to have the one forum for discussing games.

And before you tell me just to post in one forum and not the other, I'd have to say that to do that would be to miss out on the possibility of getting valuable feedback on the game, because some people will obviously only discuss games on one of these forums and not the other.

I don't know why we couldn't just have one discussion forum (sub-divided by platform of course) for completed games. To have two will just cause too many problems, I think.

[Rusty]

Mediafire isn't a restricted place, CrySet isn't a restricted place, any devs can sign up and upload their games there (except CrySet which does a quality check). It doesn't take long. Dividing traffic from "people who made the right choice" and "people who didn't use Sandbox" is stupid, we note separate CrySet from Mediafire from DropBox and every other site out there?

This forum wasn't made for the purpose of making games not on the sandbox have less views. You're missing the point. It was made as a way so Yoyogames get more usage out of something they're paying for. They're paying to host our games and you are complaining about them having their own section. Sure, use mediafire, but since YYG are out of pocket when hosting. I'm pretty sure they need a section here so it at least gets used.

You don't see a forum for each of them because they are not owned by Yoyogames. And Yoyogames would prefer it if you used their products. It costs money for them to host it and they're not getting any back from it, so why doesn't it doesn't it deserve a forum?

I don't see how YYG is going to get more useage out of this, it's going to be the same amount of people, just with their own elitist forum. Mediafire, CrySet and several other sites are also paying to host our games and files, so wouldn't they deserve a section too? I don't really care if YYG is paying to host my games, I saw the Sandbox, I checked out the option, I didn't like it, so I'm not going to use it, putting a pointless, traffic dividing section on the forums isn't going to change many minds about that.

There is a difference between pointful and pointless advertisement. Putting a link to the site in their program? Pointful, raises awareness. Using ad sites to advertise their site? Pointful, raises awareness. Placing a section that says "Sandbox" on a community of people who already know what it is, where to find it and have already decided if they want to use it or not is pointless.

Yes, I was quite happy when the creations forum was split up into genres, why? Because I like RPG's and Platformers, I have more experience with RPGs and Platformers than any other game type and therefore, could offer more feedback on those genres of games. The genre sub-forums easily directed traffic to the type of games those users wanted to play and/or give feedback on. This, quite frankly, does nothing but say "hey! Guess which host we used?" which is a pointless way to divide traffic.

And considering a lot of people seem to hate the idea of a sandbox forum as well, it's clearly going to divide to your benefit. Also, you seem to be disregarding a lot of people are indifferent to host. They will likely go for sandbox and completed games equally. It changes nothing for them. No-one is going to think "Hey, the sandbox is awesome. I'm never using the completed games section!" That doesn't happen. If anything, this place will get less views and you will have the benefit.

It can never divide to the GMC's benefit as we now have two sections instead of one. So if the user decides to spend an hour in the Sandbox forum and an hour in the completed games forum, if the games in the completed games forum are more suited to the user's tastes than the ones in the Sandbox forum, that user has now spent an hour playing games they might not have the ability to give proper feedback on because they weren't given all the options when presented with a list of games. And who is to say which forum they will choose? Most internet gamers are casual gamers and will only play around 2-3 games per session, if they find 2-3 decent games in one forum, without even looking at the options in the other, they are more likely to frequent that forum.

And CrySet doesn't scan the games before they upload them? CrySet has a QUALITY check, so every game you download from that site, you know it'll be of at least decent quality. CrySet has a rating and review system, as well as many other hosting sites, so yes, this is basically the creations forum except with the big words "SANDBOX" sprayed everywhere to pointlessly divide traffic.

There are a few other things about the Sandbox that set it apart. It was made specifically for Game Maker users. It is owned by Yoyogames. Also, you mentioned later in your post the sandbox still has its own Game Maker orientated community. Doubt any of the other sites you mentioned have those.

There isn't anything that make it special to the other hosts except it's Game Maker domination, but hey, we're on the GMC, no matter which forum you go to, you're going to find Game Maker games. Being owned by YoYoGames means absolutely nothing to me when choosing a host and the Sandbox already has it's own community, yes, so why is it trying to double post it here? Newgrounds has it's own community and with Game Maker's HTML5 functions, I'm expecting to see a lot of Game Maker games conquering sites like Miniclip and Newgrounds as this improves.

Actually, I'm fairly sure that the Sandbox still has it's own community to promote the site, it's the YGGF that went down, not YYG Internet.

Then why suggest that we may as well rename this "YYGF Forum"? Don't contradict yourself.

I'm not, my general point was that the YYGF was directly linked to Sandbox, a lot of YYGF users who are now here are used to using the Sandbox, so they're naturally going to be drawn in by the word when they want to play games.

And before you attack the point that YYG owns the sandbox, one of the main reasons you use the GMC is Game Maker. So telling me it wouldn't be different if YYG didn't own the sandbox is like me saying you wouldn't find it any different if the GMC was run by a Flash Games site. Not only that, but I don't want YYG to waste money, they have enough financial difficulties as it is without people not using their products. If more people use their products, the better it is for YYG, so even if a split will exist. (Which I severely doubt, because you said host is irrelevent, nobody will care where it is uploaded and there will be no split.) It will benefit YYG, which is a good thing. Don't you think?

I don't fully understand your point. If I post my games on here or elsewhere, YYG is going to get coverage for me using their program. If I post on my own, personal website, and tell people I use GameMaker, I'm supplying new potential customers for YYG, which in turn, will make them an awful lot more money than me hosting my games in a site I'm not overly fond of. If we all confine our work into the Sandbox, a site that is already flooded which Catch the Clown games, then I doubt word of Game Maker is really going to travel far.

This forum also allows discussion related to the sandbox, not just the games on the sandbox. Which would take into account YYG, the community and the GM games a lot more.

YYG is giving us free hosting at their cost. Stop complaining about YYG wanting us to notice it.

Exactly, it's basically a forum to talk about the Sandbox, YoYoGames and the community, so it's basically a new YYGF forum. What I can understand is a sub-forum for people to start topics about games that are on the Sandbox but for some reason, not on the GMC. What I can't understand is a pointless forum, asking authors that are on the GMC to wave a big dividing flag to say "Hey! Look at me! I'm using the Sandbox!".

[Nocturne]

Okay, lets put this another way... the forum exists because YoYo Games wants it here. It will remain for as long as they think it is useful, relevant and necessary. There is nothing more to discuss...