14 replies to this topic

[Saijee]

Has it ever annoyed you when a character does something real cool in the cutscene, but you wonder why you can't do that during gameplay?

I feel like I'm going to wind up with a case like this. Although the cutscene abilities in my case would not be particularly useful for the gameplay.

One of the main characters in my game is Siiya:

And she is a shape shifter. It's not like X-Men shape shifting though. It's much more like how Samus Can turn into the morph ball, by that I mean it's not exactly like the target, it's still retains physical characteristics specific to Siiya (She can change colors too, but the target form must be made out of pyramid like crystals). Actually during the gameplay a morphball like form is the only means you can use shapeshifting. Although I'm thinking in the sequel she will also be able to turn into much cooler things like a spear, a saw, a drill.

But during cutscenes this ability is much more explored. Even going into weapons and tools. She would partially shape shift into things that seem situationally useful. Which could range from:

Turning her wings into an umbrella.

Turning her feet into talons to enable her to perch on an otherwise difficult to to stand on branch.

Turning her hand into a bear trap, to keep a firm grip on something.

Turning her arm into a hammer to hammer in nails.

These on their own all sound like they could work as neat things for the gameplay. But as Siiya stands right now, she is already quite cluttered with abilities, and pretty much perfect the way she is. Adding anything more would just be too much.

At this point in development, I've got to say asking all of these little questions has helped me shape my game so much that I'm kinda running out of things to need help on.

So I guess this time, I'm asking: Despite this being a small detail. Would it leave a bad impression (make you wonder why you can't do that in game) or would it just make Siiya seem like a cooler character?

[Yal]

You could always lampshade this by having a cutscene where a boss monster appears and charges at Siyaa, she turns her arm into a Morning Star or other really cool weapon, then turns it back and shrugs "No... that'd be too easy."

I think that limited shapeshifting in-game and cool shapeshifting for cutscenes will give you a cool character, but some people will inevitably not like it. Especially if your game is as difficult as I know it's gonna be, people will swear over not being able to get that extra advantage.

Perhaps you could give Siyaa some extra shapeshifting after the player gets a few Game Overs in a row (as an add-on to your current system where money gradually turns into health refills as you retry stages), where the morph ball form gradually grows from a small ball to a vicious snake tank or something?

[chance]

Has it ever annoyed you when a character does something real cool in the cutscene, but you wonder why you can't do that during gameplay?
<snip>
Would it leave a bad impression (make you wonder why you can't do that in game) or would it just make Siiya seem like a cooler character?

For me, it would leave a bad impression -- a bit like false advertising. Like how some games have amazing "cover art" on the box.... but then you find out the actual game graphics are just mediocre. Pisses me off.

When I see a cutscene or trailer, I expect that those features / events actually represent the game. I think it's misleading if they don't.

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Edited by chance, 25 April 2012 - 12:13 PM.

[Saijee]

The problem with giving some of the shifts you see in the cutscenes. Is that gameplay Siiya is already so powerful, that none of them would seem very efficient in either combat or platforming.

She doesn't need grappling claws or talons because she can fly. She doesn't need weapon arms because the attacks she can do normally have rather big hit boxes and most of them reflect projectiles.

Lampshading is possible, but that one in particular wouldn't quite work considering the kind of attacks she actually uses to fight.

Her *morph ball* is actually a spike ball (of death), which essentially flips around typical platforming logic. Instead of taking damage from touching enemies, you deal damage by touching them.

But really it's got to do with the already cluttered controls. I'm only using Z X and C (not unlike Bullet Life), every button already does 2 things. Anything more and it'd be confusing and impractical as a control scheme for sure.

[Archaeaologist]

The problem with giving some of the shifts you see in the cutscenes. Is that gameplay Siiya is already so powerful, that none of them would seem very efficient in either combat or platforming.

She doesn't need grappling claws or talons because she can fly. She doesn't need weapon arms because the attacks she can do normally have rather big hit boxes and most of them reflect projectiles.

Lampshading is possible, but that one in particular wouldn't quite work considering the kind of attacks she actually uses to fight.

Her *morph ball* is actually a spike ball (of death), which essentially flips around typical platforming logic. Instead of taking damage from touching enemies, you deal damage by touching them.

But really it's got to do with the already cluttered controls. I'm only using Z X and C (not unlike Bullet Life), every button already does 2 things. Anything more and it'd be confusing and impractical as a control scheme for sure.

Why not have it so some of these lesser abilities simply automatically activate under certain conditions like (for instance) colliding with a wall while jumping automatically grapples onto the wall with the grappling claws. Perhaps make the attacks sometimes have a random animation that makes various "weapon arms" instead of the normal attack animation (with no difference in effect). If the abilities you're portraying in cutscenes are outdone by the abilities you have in the game, then their inclusion isn't necessary or even desired, but minor details like what I've suggested could both add to the coolness factor of the game and lampshade the general lack of the cutscene abilities during gameplay.

[chance]

The problem with giving some of the shifts you see in the cutscenes. Is that gameplay Siiya is already so powerful, that none of them would seem very efficient in either combat or platforming.

Fine. So don't give her those abilities. And don't show them in the cutscenes.

Your question wasn't whether she should have more ability/power -- but rather whether you should advertise abilities in the cutscenes that she doesn't have.

[Saijee]

@ Archaeaologist, Hmm, now there's an idea. Although to avoid unwanted stickiness, they would need to have understood special cases. Which make them just a little bit more than a graphical ascetic: walking across a grind rail by using talons. Climbing up vines using hooks.

Although making weapon arms during normal attacks randomly would not work too well for Siiya. Her only melee attacks involve spinning around: Lashing her foes with her wings:
http://youtu.be/trOD_pprUA4?t=1m37s

Edited by Saijee, 25 April 2012 - 04:30 PM.

[Archaeaologist]

@ Archaeaologist, Hmm, now there's an idea. Although to avoid unwanted stickiness, they would need to have understood special cases. Which make them just a little bit more than a graphical ascetic: walking across a grind rail by using talons. Climbing up vines using hooks.

Although making weapon arms during normal attacks randomly would not work too well for Siiya. Her only melee attacks involve spinning around: Lashing her foes with her wings:
http://youtu.be/trOD_pprUA4?t=1m37s

Special cases are all the better. Just add more special cases to the mix to further the visual ascetic (it doesn't have to change gameplay in the slightest, just make things look cooler and lampshade the cutscenes). As for weapon arms, you can either add them as a random animation to the melee attack or perhaps just a random collision with the spike ball (you might have to make the spike ball not be spiky for that to work, though). I dunno, it's all visual, really. The real question is how you justify them in the cutscenes; are there ways to justify them outside of the cutscenes as well?

[Saijee]

I like your thinking. Surely something that should get players thinking "Siiya is like a Swiss army knife."

Maybe when it's raining, as long as your not flying her wings will take the shape of an umbrella.

While swimming she could have submarine-like propellers on her legs.

For the most part they should not affect the momentum of the character movement. But that gives me another idea. They can be functional and not interrupt the gameplay, while keeping things from being overcomplicated in other special cases.

Perhaps there could be like 1 or 2 stealth missions. Since you would not need to shoot, perhaps that command will instead transform you into something that would attract less attention whenever whoever your hiding from comes by. (Although I should say, minigames isn't something I care about when making a game)

Speaking of special cases where the controls change. It could also be put into a minigame, just off the top of my head: Collect screws and nails, and put something together using hammerhand or skrewdriverarm in the appropriate places.

Edited by Saijee, 25 April 2012 - 05:13 PM.

[Archaeaologist]

I like your thinking. Defiantly something that should get players thinking "Siiya is like a Swiss army knife."

For the most part they should not affect the momentum of the gameplay. But that gives me another idea. They can be functional and not interrupt the gameplay, while keeping things from being overcomplicated in other special cases.

Maybe when it's raining, as long as your not flying her wings will take the shape of an umbrella.

While swimming she could have submarine-like propellers on her legs.

Perhaps there could be like 1 or 2 stealth missions. Since you would not need to shoot, perhaps that command will instead transform you into something that would attract less attention whenever whoever your hiding from comes by. (Although I should say, minigames isn't something I care about when making a game)

Speaking of special cases where the controls change. It could also be put into a minigame, just off the top of my head: Collect screws and nails, and put something together using hammerhand or skrewdriverarm in the appropriate places.

Those all sound brilliant, especially the environmental factors. I do caution you (though you already know this) to not detract too much from the intended gameplay of the game when designing missions and mini-games. The game needs to feel cohesive.

[vidokas]

i think u should add that feature to game

how about charging energy?
like warriors have rage, silyia will have some energy.
and when u have enough energy u can morph her into something.

or use those morping in situational areas as special moves, execution or smth.

[Saijee]

@Archaeaologist, yes I know, I also don't have any desire to have them personally, for an inside reason: the amount of work it takes to make special case missions and mini games is often not worth the impact they have on the players.

@vidokas, because then she'd still have to not do one or more of her abilities, if only for a brief moment. But all of her abilities are much more useful than anything her transformations could have to offer.

[shledder]

It all depends on how useful the player feels they are. If in a cut-scene she has blade hands like in Prototype, but then I can't use them for myself, lame. On the other hand if something's broken in a cut-scene and she turns her wings into wrenches/screwdrivers, players are likely to think "Man she's cool. She can turn into whatever the situation calls for." But at the same time, this game isn't Bob the Builder so nobody will care if they can't use a wrench in the gameplay.

[Archaeaologist]

It all depends on how useful the player feels they are. If in a cut-scene she has blade hands like in Prototype, but then I can't use them for myself, lame. On the other hand if something's broken in a cut-scene and she turns her wings into wrenches/screwdrivers, players are likely to think "Man she's cool. She can turn into whatever the situation calls for." But at the same time, this game isn't Bob the Builder so nobody will care if they can't use a wrench in the gameplay.

This is a good point. Instead of mini-games, you can have cut scenes. That way people will see and understand what this shape shifter can do without being upset about not being able to do it themselves. Combine that with the situational transformations that don't actually change gameplay and you shouldn't have to worry about putting in useless abilities or pointless mini-games at all.

[Saijee]

Sounds like a win-win situation.