79 replies to this topic

[CloudBomb]

Ahh, fantastic. Rumors begat of rumors and what-have. I am glad to hear there is no gating for publishing.

[time-killer-games]

GMS is an entirely separate product, so GM8.1 users will have to buy it. It's GMHTML5 users who get Studio free with just the Windows, Mac and HTML5 exports enabled. For them, the only extras that need to be purchased are the mobile exports.

GM9 is the future unifying rewrite that will merge the Windows-based GM and Mac-based GM together, and that will come after GMS.

GameGeisha

Is that really true? When I bought gm html5 I thought Mac packages were only included in studio. Same with gm9? That's awsome. I bought two products that were a lot better investment than I thought they'd be. Minus the fact I don't need gm9 when I already have html5

O____O

[CloudBomb]

So, is it safe to assume that current GMHTML5 license owners will gain access to the new physics and gml updates that come with GMS, regardless if we purchase the mobile option? Mobile export being the one thing that is limited until activated?

Edited by CloudBomb, 23 February 2012 - 04:16 PM.

[Gamer3D]

1) squared numbers being negative

I believe my problem was occurring when I was taking the square roots of a sum of squares. With all of those instances replaced with point_distance_3d, this error has not occurred.

2) dot_product not behaving as documented

The dot_product problem was fixed a while ago. The problem was that dot product has a very precise mathematical meaning, and the function has a different one. The manual used the term dot product, without specifying the change in meaning.

3) Runtime error 216 occurring when the game closes.

Re-checking my examples of this error reveals that this does not occur in those cases anymore. Sorry about causing you to worry. I will remove the note from my previous post.

[Mike.Dailly]

I believe my problem was occurring when I was taking the square roots of a sum of squares. With all of those instances replaced with point_distance_3d, this error has not occurred.

This still seems impossible. If you square a number, it'll always be positive. NO idea what you were doing there, but sounds like a bug in your own stuff to be honest.

2) dot_product not behaving as documented

Yes, having read back through it, we agree. It was added specifically for lighting, and in retro spec, should have been named differently.

The next GM81 update will address this. We've change the dot product to JUST be a dot product, and we've added dot_product_normalised() and dot_product_3d_normalised() which will do the "lighting" behaviour. I've also reworded the description of the normalised version, as the previous on was nonsense. (I must have been drunk when I wrote it)

Not sure when this will go out though.

[Gamer3D]

This still seems impossible. If you square a number, it'll always be positive. NO idea what you were doing there, but sounds like a bug in your own stuff to be honest.

It's been a while, so I don't remember what exactly was causing the problem, but I remember that it was a number that was guaranteed to be non-negative causing domain errors with the sqrt() function. I am reasonably sure it was my distance calculations, but I could be wrong.

Whatever it was, some combination of using point_distance_3d and clamping anything I feed into the sqrt function has prevented the problem from resurfacing.

Yes, having read back through it, we agree. It was added specifically for lighting, and in retro spec, should have been named differently.

To help people make baked lighting, I assume?

The next GM81 update will address this. We've change the dot product to JUST be a dot product, and we've added dot_product_normalised() and dot_product_3d_normalised() which will do the "lighting" behaviour. I've also reworded the description of the normalised version, as the previous on was nonsense. (I must have been drunk when I wrote it)

The current documentation has an acceptable (logical, accurate) description.

[lordvtp]

Wow, out of all the reasons people have tried to force me to open a facebook account and all the times i'v resisted.... Fine...you win

[Mr. RPG]

So you have to first buy GMS and then pay more for iOS/Android etc.?

Honestly GMS (and GMHTML5) shouldn't even be a separate product, it should just be included in all 8.x updates and then you can choose to purchase iOS/Android/HTML5 exports at any time. You guys make it so much more complicated than necessary. I'm guessing you guys do this to get more money off of us.

[NakedPaulToast]

So you have to first buy GMS and then pay more for iOS/Android etc.?

Honestly GMS (and GMHTML5) shouldn't even be a separate product, it should just be included in all 8.x updates and then you can choose to purchase iOS/Android/HTML5 exports at any time. You guys make it so much more complicated than necessary. I'm guessing you guys do this to get more money off of us.

Had GMS included Windows, iOS, Mac, Android, Symbian (and other future exports) then you'd be complaining about having to pay for modules that you don't use.

It's obvious that GM and YYGs isn't a good fit for you, you should probably find another game development package. YYGs doesn't need your money that badly and you'd be much happier.

[Mr. RPG]

So you have to first buy GMS and then pay more for iOS/Android etc.?

Honestly GMS (and GMHTML5) shouldn't even be a separate product, it should just be included in all 8.x updates and then you can choose to purchase iOS/Android/HTML5 exports at any time. You guys make it so much more complicated than necessary. I'm guessing you guys do this to get more money off of us.

Had GMS included Windows, iOS, Mac, Android, Symbian (and other future exports) then you'd be complaining about having to pay for modules that you don't use.

It's obvious that GM and YYGs isn't a good fit for you, you should probably find another game development package. YYGs doesn't need your money that badly and you'd be much happier.

That doesn't make any sense. You should pay for the exports YOU want. Are you saying GMS forces you to buy them all at once? I'm not going to pay for a platform that I do not wish to use (or can't even use.) It's called 'convenience' for their customers and it really helps sales if YoYoGames ever hopes to break a profit!

Nah, it's YYGs that isn't a good fit and judging from previous sales records of YoYoGames (from 2009, latest I could come up with) they DO need my money.

I'm not the only one who thinks this by the way.

[GameGeisha]

That doesn't make any sense. You should pay for the exports YOU want. Are you saying GMS forces you to buy them all at once?

NPT's statement makes sense, it's the way you read it that doesn't.

GameGeisha

[chance]

That doesn't make any sense. You should pay for the exports YOU want.

What are you complaining about?

You can buy GM:Windows. You can purchase Studio Basic to get Win and HTML5 (and Mac... for now). Or you can purchase additional modules for iOS, Mac, Android, Symbian.

There's no redundancy or overlap. You aren't forced to pay for anything you won't use. You only purchase the exports modules YOU want.

So YYG is doing exactly what you want, right?

[Mr. RPG]

That doesn't make any sense. You should pay for the exports YOU want.

What are you complaining about?

You can buy GM:Windows. You can purchase Studio Basic to get Win and HTML5 (and Mac... for now). Or you can purchase additional modules for iOS, Mac, Android, Symbian.

There's no redundancy or overlap. You aren't forced to pay for anything you won't use. You only purchase the exports modules YOU want.

So YYG is doing exactly what you want, right?

No, because there shouldn't be a GMS at all.

That should be implemented in GM x itself. Why create a separate product at all? What is the point other than emptying our wallets? Why should I have to pay for a program just to have to pay EVEN more for modules?

I should pay for GameMaker and then pay for modules. I shouldn't have to get Game Maker, then Game Maker Studio, then pay more for modules. Also, I shouldn't have to pay for GameMaker 8, then 9, etc. I should pay ONCE. Like I said, I love GameMaker, I truly do, but I hate how YoYoGames markets and sells the products and their sales reflect their poor decisions.

Just curious, are you or NPT YYG's PR?

Edited by Mr. RPG, 25 February 2012 - 07:58 PM.

[chance]

I shouldn't have to get Game Maker, then Game Maker Studio, then pay more for modules.

New buyers wouldn't do that. They'd decide which exports they want, and then purchase either GM:Standard, or GM:Studio.

For new users who purchase GM:Standard, and then decide later they want more, YYG may offer an upgrade discount. We'll see.

[Mr. RPG]

I shouldn't have to get Game Maker, then Game Maker Studio, then pay more for modules.

New buyers wouldn't do that. They'd decide which exports they want, and then purchase either GM:Standard, or GM:Studio.

For new users who purchase GM:Standard, and then decide later they want more, YYG may offer an upgrade discount. We'll see.

No, there shouldn't be a Studio at all. There should be a Standard and then you can decide if you want exports and then purchase them through Standard.

There is absolutely NO reason why to have Studio other than to milk out the most money YYG can.

And for a company that tries to market towards younger people, they must be idiots to think a child can purchase Standard, Studio, and then those exports with allowances. We are paying a hefty premium for these digital products that will only require an additional purchase after every major version comes out, wouldn't you agree?

Edited by Mr. RPG, 25 February 2012 - 08:11 PM.

[chance]

...wouldn't you agree?

I'm not disagreeing because of your suggested pricing structure. YYG may ultimately adopt that approach.

But we should be able to discuss pricing structure without you claiming that YYG is just trying to milk its customers.

Look, YYG is in the process of offering new products, and new structured options for exports. Don't jump to conclusions that their ultimate product/pricing structure is to "get more money off of us".

[CloudBomb]

From the VERY LITTLE that has been said about it GMHTML5 was a beta that was sidelined with the addition of the other export options + whatever comes along with it, with that in mind:

1) Owners of GMHTML5 get a "free" upgrade to GMS because that is what they currently have.
2) No one is paying for "double product."
3) After GMS comes out, a whole new brand spanking fresh re-write of the game maker framework will be available when it is also finished, combining everything together.


Really it's just upgrades being released under different names until GM9. No need to freak out.

[Mr. RPG]

...wouldn't you agree?

I'm not disagreeing because of your suggested pricing structure. YYG may ultimately adopt that approach.

But we should be able to discuss pricing structure without you claiming that YYG is just trying to milk its customers.

Look, YYG is in the process of offering new products, and new structured options for exports. Don't jump to conclusions that their ultimate product/pricing structure is to "get more money off of us".

I'm just saying that there shouldn't be a Studio at all and that YYG should just add the export options to GM:Standard itself.

From the VERY LITTLE that has been said about it GMHTML5 was a beta that was sidelined with the addition of the other export options + whatever comes along with it, with that in mind:

1) Owners of GMHTML5 get a "free" upgrade to GMS because that is what they currently have.
2) No one is paying for "double product."
3) After GMS comes out, a whole new brand spanking fresh re-write of the game maker framework will be available when it is also finished, combining everything together.


Really it's just upgrades being released under different names until GM9. No need to freak out.

Yes, you ARE buying double product. You have to pay for Standard AND Studio THEN exports.

[interpolicer]

I'm not the only one who thinks this by the way.

No, but beware of the warning because you have different opinions.

[NakedPaulToast]

And for a company that tries to market towards younger people, they must be idiots to think a child can purchase Standard, Studio, and then those exports with allowances.

This statement is just blatantly false. I don't know how you can honestly believe it.

GameMaker Studio is being launched at GDC, Game Developers Conference. That should be your first clue that GM:Studio is not being marketed towards children who are dependant on allowances.

Child: Mom, I want to develop games. If I do a few more chores will you give me the money?
Mom: Sure Son. How much do you need?
Child: $2,100 for an all access pass to GDC.
Mom: No problem. Just make sure you do a good job cleaning up the kitchen.
Child: And $1,500 for a plane ticket and hotel, it's in San Fransisco.
Mom: Empty the cat litter as well.
Child: All the other kids are going.