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#51 Derme

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 09:21 AM

I partially agree with mr rpg, but there are some things to be concerned about that don't need to be posted hear. It's something that may be upsetting but really who doesn't want to make a couple extra bucks? If this is yoyos purpose in what they are doing, does it actually matter? They are free to sell their product how they please it's their own property.

Could someone please answer my question [an admin] will html5 include Macintosh export in the future or is that a studio-only functionality? Is there a studio discount for html5 buyers? Thank you.



Why would Game Maker:HTML5 include Mac export? If you already own HTML5 you get an upgrade to Studio with the HTML5 extension, you could buy the Mac extension if they release one.


Alright so, looking back at previous posts...


Also, do 8.1 users get GMS for free? Or is it an entirely seperate development tool (which would kinda answer my first question).
I assume it's a new tool otherwise if it's just a more featurefull version of GM8.1 they'd just call it 8.2 or 9.. Also it'd make the numbered series absolete..

GMS is an entirely separate product, so GM8.1 users will have to buy it. It's GMHTML5 users who get Studio free with just the Windows, Mac and HTML5 exports enabled. For them, the only extras that need to be purchased are the mobile exports.

GM9 is the future unifying rewrite that will merge the Windows-based GM and Mac-based GM together, and that will come after GMS.

GameGeisha


Game Maker 8.1 -> Will die a slow and painful death (According to Mike)
Game Maker HTML5 -> Free Upgrade -> Game Maker Studio with Windows, Mac and HTML5 exporters. (The rest of the exporters need to be brought)

Game Maker 9 (A separate product) will turn up in the next year or so unifying Standard + Studio into 1 awesome package.


And now I'll go back counting down the days till the GDC...
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#52 King Tetiro

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 05:25 PM

And for a company that tries to market towards younger people, they must be idiots to think a child can purchase Standard, Studio, and then those exports with allowances.


This statement is just blatantly false. I don't know how you can honestly believe it.

GameMaker Studio is being launched at GDC, Game Developers Conference. That should be your first clue that GM:Studio is not being marketed towards children who are dependant on allowances.

Child: Mom, I want to develop games. If I do a few more chores will you give me the money?
Mom: Sure Son. How much do you need?
Child: $2,100 for an all access pass to GDC.
Mom: No problem. Just make sure you do a good job cleaning up the kitchen.
Child: And $1,500 for a plane ticket and hotel, it's in San Fransisco.
Mom: Empty the cat litter as well.
Child: All the other kids are going.


Despite having disagreements on Toast's thoughts from time to time, I agree with him on this. GMS is being launched at GDC which isn't filled with children. It's adults, investors, developers. Anything to do with the development of games.
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#53 Desert Dog

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 09:37 PM

I've been using GM since 2005, and while I am not as experienced as many other users here, I've nevertheless followed GM since then. As soon as YYG started making us pay for every new version, that is when I started to begin a dislike for the company


Sounds tragic, until you start to count up the free upgrades that YYG's did give out. Oh, wait, turns out you didn't need to pay for each new version at all. Whoops. The only new version people had to pay for was GM8 from GM7. And even then if you bought GM7 6 months or so before GM8's release, you got a free upgrade. ( like me ^_^ )

So yeah, when you say 'every new version' you just mean 1, right? Or do you also describe GM-html5 as a 'version'. you had to pay for. (it's a seperate product.)
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#54 Mr. RPG

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 10:43 PM

I think that chance is the only one in this topic who actually understands what I am trying to say.
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#55 Desert Dog

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 12:11 AM

I think that chance is the only one in this topic who actually understands what I am trying to say.


No, I understand what your trying to say. (I think)

You have GM8.1. You want an iOS export(or something like that). You'd prefer to pay $100(or whatever) something ontop of the GM8.1 you've already bought, and get iOS export.

Instead, you fear you have to pay $$$ for the 'base' GM package, (PC, Mac, html5(?)) and then have to pay extra for the iOS export you want.

That's fair enough. You're also throwing a lot of nonsense statements in with your fear, like 'having to pay for every version' which are blatantly untrue. When people challenge these statements your left frustrated that your real concern isn't being addressed.


Now, look at YYG's history. Free upgrades from GM6 (a version they didn't hold) to GM7. to an extent, a good amount got free upgrades from GM7-8, and they held the price at $2(0/5) for GM8 for some time before increasing it $40, or whatever it is. So the upgrade was pretty cheap for GM users, and people like me got it free.
GM8.1 was, of course, a free upgrade for all.

GM-html5 is a new product. In beta, and for a limited time, it's being offered at a $99, which we're told is half price. Those who signed up for the mailing list, got a further $20 off.

These people who purchased GM-html5 are going to get GM-studio for PC, mac,+html5 for free. That is to say, for me, and my fellow HTML5 users, your concern doesn't apply.

For you, as a GM8.1 user, you need to know what happens to you. Do you get an upgrade to GM studio, base studio too?(maybe without the html5).

Do you get a discount off the base GM studio at least?

History would suggest that you'd get a discount, or at least, the ability to buy it while it's in beta, for a good chunk off the final price.

But I agree, this is something you obviously would want to know. Unfortunately, this is something that it's highly unlikely we'll know about for some time.
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Games for Androids
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Code: General Array Functions - GM-S friendly. sorting, shuffling. Includes a quicksort.
Use the quicksort to sort ds_lists 10-18 times faster than ds_list_sort()!

#56 Mr. RPG

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 12:50 AM


I think that chance is the only one in this topic who actually understands what I am trying to say.


No, I understand what your trying to say. (I think)

You have GM8.1. You want an iOS export(or something like that). You'd prefer to pay $100(or whatever) something ontop of the GM8.1 you've already bought, and get iOS export.

Instead, you fear you have to pay $ for the 'base' GM package, (PC, Mac, html5(?)) and then have to pay extra for the iOS export you want.

That's fair enough. You're also throwing a lot of nonsense statements in with your fear, like 'having to pay for every version' which are blatantly untrue. When people challenge these statements your left frustrated that your real concern isn't being addressed.


Now, look at YYG's history. Free upgrades from GM6 (a version they didn't hold) to GM7. to an extent, a good amount got free upgrades from GM7-8, and they held the price at $2(0/5) for GM8 for some time before increasing it $40, or whatever it is. So the upgrade was pretty cheap for GM users, and people like me got it free.
GM8.1 was, of course, a free upgrade for all.


GM-html5 is a new product. In beta, and for a limited time, it's being offered at a $99, which we're told is half price. Those who signed up for the mailing list, got a further $20 off.

These people who purchased GM-html5 are going to get GM-studio for PC, mac,+html5 for free. That is to say, for me, and my fellow HTML5 users, your concern doesn't apply.

For you, as a GM8.1 user, you need to know what happens to you. Do you get an upgrade to GM studio, base studio too?(maybe without the html5).

Do you get a discount off the base GM studio at least?

History would suggest that you'd get a discount, or at least, the ability to buy it while it's in beta, for a good chunk off the final price.

But I agree, this is something you obviously would want to know. Unfortunately, this is something that it's highly unlikely we'll know about for some time.


I don't have 8.1. Despite that I dislike GameMaker Studio, I actually will be buying it (unless the base price is absurd.. it should be the same as GM8.1 if anything)

What I want is there to be NO GM:HTML5 and NO GameMaker Studio and instead GameMaker 8.1 allows you to export iOS/Android/HTML5 etc. files (by purchasing them)

It is being planned (as far as I know and what you guys have said) that GameMaker Studio will require a fee (you get Mac/Windows) then you start paying more for iOS/Android. This is absurd for someone who already owns GM8.1.

Do you understand better now Desert Dog?

Edited by Mr. RPG, 28 February 2012 - 12:51 AM.

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#57 Desert Dog

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 01:06 AM

What I want is there to be NO GM:HTML5 and NO GameMaker Studio and instead GameMaker 8.1 allows you to export iOS/Android/HTML5 etc. files (by purchasing them)


Heck no. Keep 'em seperate. I'd like GM-html5 to stay seperate from GM studio, although I suspect that it might merge into GMS.
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HTML5 games for mobile:
HexDogs Bugz Burn! Captain George Golfing Block Memory

Games for Androids
*NEW* Word Dog - Published by Dangerous_Dave


Code: General Array Functions - GM-S friendly. sorting, shuffling. Includes a quicksort.
Use the quicksort to sort ds_lists 10-18 times faster than ds_list_sort()!

#58 Mr. RPG

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 01:28 AM

What I want is there to be NO GM:HTML5 and NO GameMaker Studio and instead GameMaker 8.1 allows you to export iOS/Android/HTML5 etc. files (by purchasing them)


Heck no. Keep 'em seperate. I'd like GM-html5 to stay seperate from GM studio, although I suspect that it might merge into GMS.


I thought NPT or chance said it was being merged.
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#59 Lightang3l

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:37 AM

Yes yes... that's all fine, but is GMS faster than GM8.1 for windows games? Because if it isn't you can just buy GM8.1 and be done with it... :rolleyes:
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#60 interpolicer

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:41 AM

I sincerely hope there's a GM:Studio lite with only windows export and the mandatory splash screen (please, no more loading bars!).
And then the exporters as a pay-as-you-want deal. I'd really like to try Studio out before committing the money for it.

Of course, buying the base package, you will get the Win/HTML5/Mac exports.

Will there be Windows Phone7 export?
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#61 sin_of_nature

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 12:13 PM

Does anyone know if the iOS, Android and Mac export will be native code or HTML 5 apps with a wrapper like phonegap or appmobi round them ?
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#62 rwkay

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 12:18 PM

All Studio targets are native so iOS, Android, Mac etc are native applications HTML5 is javascript native.

No wrapper or anything going on.

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#63 sin_of_nature

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 12:20 PM

Wow... that is amazing! I'm drooling at getting my hands on this. No pressure lads, but adding Windows 7 Mobile and XBox 360 (XNA type) would be a nice addon to make. Cover all mobile bases. :)

All Studio targets are native so iOS, Android, Mac etc are native applications HTML5 is javascript native.

No wrapper or anything going on.

Russell


Edited by sin_of_nature, 28 February 2012 - 12:21 PM.

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#64 CloudBomb

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 03:53 PM



...wouldn't you agree?

I'm not disagreeing because of your suggested pricing structure. YYG may ultimately adopt that approach.

But we should be able to discuss pricing structure without you claiming that YYG is just trying to milk its customers. :dry:

Look, YYG is in the process of offering new products, and new structured options for exports. Don't jump to conclusions that their ultimate product/pricing structure is to "get more money off of us".


I'm just saying that there shouldn't be a Studio at all and that YYG should just add the export options to GM:Standard itself.


From the VERY LITTLE that has been said about it GMHTML5 was a beta that was sidelined with the addition of the other export options + whatever comes along with it, with that in mind:

1) Owners of GMHTML5 get a "free" upgrade to GMS because that is what they currently have.
2) No one is paying for "double product."
3) After GMS comes out, a whole new brand spanking fresh re-write of the game maker framework will be available when it is also finished, combining everything together.


Really it's just upgrades being released under different names until GM9. No need to freak out. :)


Yes, you ARE buying double product. You have to pay for Standard AND Studio THEN exports.


Would love if you could elaborate on this with some details.
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#65 michael pw

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 04:40 PM

OMG Installing GM Studio :D!

Edited by michael pw, 29 February 2012 - 04:40 PM.

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#66 Yal

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 04:47 PM

Nintendo goes to E3, but they target family audiences. I am not sure what you are trying to argue other than to try and poke fun at me.

How many people go to the E3 fair to buy their consoles and game discs? All the guild folks go to E3, and then the games become available in shopping malls after some time. You fail to understand the difference between a "game" and "game developping software" here, I'm afraid, Mr.RPG.
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#67 Mr. RPG

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:01 PM

Nintendo goes to E3, but they target family audiences. I am not sure what you are trying to argue other than to try and poke fun at me.

How many people go to the E3 fair to buy their consoles and game discs? All the guild folks go to E3, and then the games become available in shopping malls after some time. You fail to understand the difference between a "game" and "game developping software" here, I'm afraid, Mr.RPG.


I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say, this does not sound anything related to the topic at hand.

Let's keep this on topic?
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#68 CloudBomb

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 05:29 PM

Congrats on the winners that were notified this morning!
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#69 The Legend

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 12:06 PM

If you can just sign up for the beta program, what's the point of the contest? Just the fact that you get it a wee bit earlier?
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#70 chance

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 10:14 PM

If you can just sign up for the beta program, what's the point of the contest?

Just a promotion to generate some interest on Facebook. Good way to reach some customers who might not otherwise hear about it.

Free and easy marketing. :wink: Why not?
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#71 mrpeanut188

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 12:07 AM

From Paul Naked Toastz:

Child: Mom, I want to develop games. If I do a few more chores will you give me the money?
Mom: Sure Son. How much do you need?
Child: $2,100 for an all access pass to GDC.
Mom: No problem. Just make sure you do a good job cleaning up the kitchen.
Child: And $1,500 for a plane ticket and hotel, it's in San Fransisco.
Mom: Empty the cat litter as well.
Child: All the other kids are going.

Total trip cost: $3,600. False tickets? Priceless. That is what society's thoughts today are.
Me? I'm only 13. Still a die hard fan. If Studio does release for under about $600, I would save up.
I already have about $250 saved.
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#72 icuurd12b42

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 07:24 AM

I just found this. Like added
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#73 The Legend

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 09:23 PM

From Paul Naked Toastz:


Child: Mom, I want to develop games. If I do a few more chores will you give me the money?
Mom: Sure Son. How much do you need?
Child: $2,100 for an all access pass to GDC.
Mom: No problem. Just make sure you do a good job cleaning up the kitchen.
Child: And $1,500 for a plane ticket and hotel, it's in San Fransisco.
Mom: Empty the cat litter as well.
Child: All the other kids are going.

Total trip cost: $3,600. False tickets? Priceless. That is what society's thoughts today are.
Me? I'm only 13. Still a die hard fan. If Studio does release for under about $600, I would save up.
I already have about $250 saved.

Seeing as HTML5 owners get a free upgrade and that HTML5 currently costs $99, I highly doubt GM studio will be anymore than that.
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#74 NakedPaulToast

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:11 PM


From Paul Naked Toastz:


Child: Mom, I want to develop games. If I do a few more chores will you give me the money?
Mom: Sure Son. How much do you need?
Child: $2,100 for an all access pass to GDC.
Mom: No problem. Just make sure you do a good job cleaning up the kitchen.
Child: And $1,500 for a plane ticket and hotel, it's in San Fransisco.
Mom: Empty the cat litter as well.
Child: All the other kids are going.

Total trip cost: $3,600. False tickets? Priceless. That is what society's thoughts today are.
Me? I'm only 13. Still a die hard fan. If Studio does release for under about $600, I would save up.
I already have about $250 saved.

Seeing as HTML5 owners get a free upgrade and that HTML5 currently costs $99, I highly doubt GM studio will be anymore than that.

You can't make that conclusion.

GM:HTML5 is and has been offered at a discounted price of $99 from $199. An early incentive for Beta testers and early adopters. Heck I didn't even pay $99, I paid $79.

It's also silly to state a price. GM:Studio will have multiple prices depending on what exports you want and the price of each export. The majority of people showing interest in Studio are particularly interested in the iOS and Android exports. Its a given that when studio is released many purchasers will also be wanting those exports. These modules are a key component of the price, and we have nothing to gage what their prices will be.
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#75 adhgarra

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 01:08 AM

Quick question? Is it still going to be psp compatible?
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#76 Sondar

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 08:32 AM

Quick question? Is it still going to be psp compatible?


No. There was an initial plan to target PSP as a platform, but there are numerous restrictions on PSP publishing - like having to get a ESRB rating on each game, which is expensive. At the moment, and for the near future, the only way to get published on PSP is to talk to YoYo Games, who have published on PSP themselves.

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#77 Jack Indie Box

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 04:12 PM

talk to YoYo Games, who have published on PSP themselves.

I knew they changed plans(mainly based on sony) but i didnt know they had released anything on there(im kind of a playstation store "enthusiast") what was it?(i presume a playstation mini)
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#78 Yal

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 11:15 AM

I think they ported Skydiver for the PSP, at least they showed a running demo back in the days.
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#79 Tennx

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 05:12 PM

So you have to first buy GMS and then pay more for iOS/Android etc.?

Honestly GMS (and GMHTML5) shouldn't even be a separate product, it should just be included in all 8.x updates and then you can choose to purchase iOS/Android/HTML5 exports at any time. You guys make it so much more complicated than necessary. I'm guessing you guys do this to get more money off of us.


Actually, I find your point to be pretty reasonable:

  • Buy GM:Standard 8.1, for $39.99
  • Upgrade to Studio, for $60.00
Okay, sounds good. But there is a fatal flaw on your viewpoint.

  • Starting in the fact that each software is based on a different programming language: It's impossible to build the studio version with the current GM:Standard 8.1 as a base software... GM:Standard 8.1 was based on Delphi, while Studio uses C++.
  • The development team took the decision to build the GM:HTML5 version as a prequel to the GM:Studio, as an strategical course of action because of the increasing popularity of this new technology. GM:HTML5 and GM:Studio are (theorically) the same product.
  • GM:Studio has a completly new code written in C++ for Windows based games, so technically it includes another completly new version of GM:Standard (you can't compare 8.1 with Studio, which adds tons of new features to the Windows based applications)
So, can you keep saying that YYG is sucking money from our wallets? I don't think so... :)

'nuff said

Edited by Tennx, 10 May 2012 - 05:14 PM.

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#80 kburkhart84

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 05:50 AM

I think the part that wasn't mentioned here is the difference between GM8.1 and Studio(the base version). For example, GMStudio will have Box2D physics, and source control systems, and GM8.1 does not have these things.

Now, once it goes to GM9(GMNext), it will be pretty much the same thing, where GM9 Lite will be the free version, which would be the same as GM9 Standard but with a few limits, and maybe the watermarks, or whatever Yoyo decides on. Then GM9-Studio will be GM9 Standard with a few extras, like Physics and source control, and maybe some other extras that we don't know about yet, and then the capability to add exports to it(iOS, Android).

My point here is that GMStudio isn't simply a more expensive replacement for GM8.1, rather it is a "higher-tier" version, with more features, which happen to include the add-on exporters. A competitor here(that works similar, but not exactly the same) is Unity, in that you have a free version, the pro version, and then the mobile exports have Pro and standard options, which are not free at all(except for the recent promotion which already ended I believe). Shiva3d by Stonetrip varies some from this, in that the free version only does web games, and then the paid version does all of the exports, including windows, and then they have a more expensive pro version, which simply adds features. But, the point is that though there are different pricing structures, not one of them provides everything for free, and for the most part more features cost more money, so why would you expect Yoyo to do anything differently. Like Chance mentioned earlier, they are now a "real" company, not a single guy doing it for a hobby, so they have mouths to feed, but in exchange, we are getting much more. Do you think Mark Overmars working alone was ever going to even get near having GM export to iOS/Android, or even HTML5 for that matter???

I also saw how a specific poster was insisting on not paying for new versions. WTF??? What software that you pay for works like that?? Adobe's lineup does not, nor does the Windows or Mac OS's, nor Maya or 3dsMax, or pretty much any piece of software that isn't free. Many companies offer "upgrade discounts," which YoyoGames has done in various forms, and the reality is that Yoyo has been quite generous, allowing us to upgrade for free in many instances, and the special deals we are getting for early adoption of GMStudio is just great. I was with the group that paid for GM4HTML5 at the price of $79. I haven't really done much web development, but I get GMStudio plus the HTML5 export which is valued at $299 for the whole package for the measly price of $79. So I not only get the new features of GMStudio for windows games, I also have the option of moving to WebDev if I feel the need, and I also have the option to pay $200 for one of the mobile exports, if I so choose. And if Yoyo continues there generosity, they MAY offer a discount to upgrade to GM9-Studio when that comes out, but they MAY not, and at that time, I will see if the new features of the GM9 lineup are worth it for the price, and if so, I buy, and if not, I either wait for a price drop to make it worth it, or new features in the lineup, or another iteration(GM10) and then buy. The choice is mine, and I can't blame YoyoGames for wanting my money. They aren't forcing me into anything, and now that they have incoming money from sales, they will be able to fund new version of the software, which means the sound and input engine will get redone, and other even better features will come. Do you think Mark Overmars was ever going to be able to do all of this on his own???
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My KBInput system is now on the marketplace here.  It wraps up nice and tight GMStudio's input system into a few function calls making a user configurable input system that works the same regardless of what inputs the player has chosen including keyboard, mouse buttons, and gamepad/joysticks using DInput/XInput.  The support forum topic for it is here.





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