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#1 paul23

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 12:14 PM

GMC challenge 1

Well the time has arrived to announce the theme:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ocp7sjbyBg
Water splash effects
wiki

I'm looking forward to see big pillars of water, amazing effects and beautiful combinations of art and science. Use this topic to discuss anything related to the subject. Show what others have done in the past already? What typical challenges you expect? Which rules do you think should be applied? Basically anything regarding Splash effects and the entries.



Generic rules for each challenge:
  • Must be working in either GM8, GM8.1 or GM:HTML5
  • Must be of file format .gmk, .gm81, .gmz, .gml, .gmres
  • Has to be entirely written in gamemaker (either using scripts or drag and drop)
  • Only indicated public extensions can be used

Judging
Judging will be done in 2 criteria:
Technical capability of the entry

How well does it fulfill the task?
How fast is the entry?
Are there any extra features?

Useability of the entry

Is the entry intuitive to use?
Can the entry interfere with other parts of a program? (How much?)
Is the entry code easy to read, and extendable?
Is -if necessary- a documentation present?


Winning
As with each competition or challenge, there can only be 1 the best. After judging is done, I'll declare the winner. The winning entry will be added to a hall-of-fame in the scripts section. Also the winner can recommend (and hopefully will) a following theme.
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#2 EdgeV

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 01:22 PM

When is the deadline? Or did I overlook it? :tongue:
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#3 paul23

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 01:55 PM

When is the deadline? Or did I overlook it? :tongue:

This is just announcing the theme (and discussing it), next week the final rules will be shown. After that you have a full week to create your entry.
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#4 Rusty

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 02:24 PM

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So we start next week? Do we have to use particle effects or can I just use sprite animations and objects?
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#5 TheSnidr

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 02:36 PM

Let's see, how'd we go about doing this...
The easiest way would definetely be to make a nice sprite (something I can't seem to be able to do). Does that solution count? If it does, okay, sure. If not, how do we sort what we're going to accept and what not to accept?
The hardest (more or less) feasible solution I can think of would be to simulate water with many small particles and drop a solid into the pool, letting the simulated physics work their way.
I do however look forward to see what solutions you guys come up with

Edited by TheSnidr, 06 February 2012 - 02:49 PM.

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#6 @Alex@

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 02:49 PM

Few ideas floating about my head. We'll see if I get round to making any of them work.
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#7 chance

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 05:32 PM

...next week the final rules will be shown.

Then you'll tell us what's meant by "indicated public extensions" ?
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#8 paul23

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 05:42 PM


...next week the final rules will be shown.

Then you'll tell us what's meant by "indicated public extensions" ?

Well that's me making a standard post I won't have to adapt often.. To allow (in the future) also challenges based on things like 39dll. Common sense should make clear for this challenge no extensions are necessary.. So non will be used :P.
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#9 Nocturne

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 06:44 PM

I'd also suggest that common sense says that an animated sprite is not acceptable! This is a PROGRAMMING challenge and not a spriting challenge... if you want that then go join PixelJoint!
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#10 orange08

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 08:31 PM

I've got some neat ideas in my head for how this could be achieved(with or without sprites).
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#11 chance

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 09:36 PM


Then you'll tell us what's meant by "indicated public extensions" ?

Well that's me making a standard post I won't have to adapt often.. To allow (in the future) also challenges based on things like 39dll. Common sense should make clear for this challenge no extensions are necessary.. So non will be used :P.

I understood that was the rule for this challenge. But that's why that statement seemed contradictory. It might be useful to list "generic rules" that apply to all challenges, separately from the "specific rules" for a particular challenge.

Anyway, thanks for clarifying.
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#12 Rusty

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 10:08 PM

I'd also suggest that common sense says that an animated sprite is not acceptable! This is a PROGRAMMING challenge and not a spriting challenge... if you want that then go join PixelJoint!

As a pixel artist I denounce you for using such foul language in the presence of young(ish) GMC(hildren) members.

Besides, doing it with sprites wouldn't require less coding if you want to make a decent job of it. Yes, you could make a rubbish little collison with stone = slash, thing, or you could make a collison with stone = series of events that makes the little details, simply wonderful, thing. The latter of which will test spriting and coding ability.

Since spriting is a big part of the Game Maker realm, I wouldn't call this an invalid approach.
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#13 11clock

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 10:13 PM

So we're making a game with splash effects, or are we trying to make the best splash effect possible? If it's the latter, then I'm out. One thing I suck at is visuals. :P
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#14 paul23

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 11:24 PM

So we're making a game with splash effects, or are we trying to make the best splash effect possible? If it's the latter, then I'm out. One thing I suck at is visuals. :P

It's the latter, but see this as an oppurtunity to increase your skills! - Besides, visual appeal will only be one side of the coin, another will be how well it is made (speed/features).


@nocturne: Well I plan to have some more elaborate rules - where a simple "static animation" (contradictio in termino?) wouldn't be enough.

@chance: The rules I posted here are all generic rules - renamed it.
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#15 Docopoper

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 12:14 AM

Wow! That isn't exactly the simplest challenge to have first...

Considering that professional games usually don't even use fluid dynamics - should we make sure to include ripples, or is particles only a valid choice for the sake of speed?
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#16 paul23

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 12:26 AM

Wow! That isn't exactly the simplest challenge to have first...

Considering that professional games usually don't even use fluid dynamics - should we make sure to include ripples, or is particles only a valid choice for the sake of speed?

That is hopefully a decision each person will make for his own. However I think the goal of each entry should be that the entry could be used in a full-scale game. - So speed is obviously an important factor. And it might very well be much better to make a simple, yet effective effect than a realistic fluid dynamic simulation using reynold's number etc.

But the question is: how far do you go for reality?
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#17 Rusty

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:19 AM

Are we allowed to use sprites or just particles?
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#18 chance

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 03:13 AM

Are we allowed to use sprites or just particles?

I think Nocturne's point about sprites, was that we shouldn't base the entire splash effect on "animated sprites" made elsewhere. But other than that extreme, I'd say sprite primitives are fine as long as the emphasis is GM code. I mean, even particle effects can use sprites as the individual particles.

I think the intent of the challenge is to create a splash effect using GML code (or action icons).
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#19 lukew23

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 04:37 AM

3d or 2d?
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#20 chance

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 11:02 AM

3d or 2d?

Yes.
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#21 Keevor

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 12:21 AM

I might be out, simply because i have never actually used particle system before. Will learn sometime. :sweat:
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#22 blopit

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 04:13 AM

Awww a graphical effect....
Not my forte but I'll see what I can do :D
One of these challenges should be destructible terrain! Or something else high in demand.

But splash is nice too! I'm thinking platformer splash effect using primitives for ripple effect. And particles for actual splash effect. Splash particals will turn into foam upon contact with water surface.
Physical splash will be 2 dimensional but I'll probably show it on a pseudo-3d plane if fps allows it.
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#23 Desert Dog

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 06:18 AM

This could be interesting. Alright, I'll see about making something when the time comes. =)
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#24 Zesterer

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 11:12 PM

@chance

Wow. Amazing answer. Really tells him which one it is.

I think that's a +1 rep point for complete failure to acknowledge the question. :D

Edited by Zesterer, 09 February 2012 - 11:13 PM.

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#25 Rusty

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 01:40 AM


3d or 2d?

Yes.

I didn't actually see this. What chance means is "both are allowed", which is unfortunate because I was looking forward to seeing chance fail for once...
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#26 Zesterer

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 07:42 AM

Ok.
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#27 chance

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 11:27 AM

@chance

Wow. Amazing answer. Really tells him which one it is.

OK, I was being flippant. :tongue: But the question was silly. I mean, he might as well ask "Windowed mode, or full screen?" Or ask "Are surfaces allowed?" Or even "what frame rate should I use?" We get questions like this in every competition.

Look, paul23 hasn't placed any restrictions like this in the rules (1st post). Of course, HE MAY do this at some point. He might require 2D/particle solutions. But so far he hasn't. Until then, we have paul's rules: GML or DnD / GM8, 8.1, or GM:HTML5 / no extensions. Period.

Personally, I may try two different approaches: the first using particle effects in 2D, and the second using 3D objects. Not sure which will work best.

.

Edited by chance, 10 February 2012 - 11:28 AM.

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#28 paul23

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 04:32 PM


@chance

Wow. Amazing answer. Really tells him which one it is.

OK, I was being flippant. :tongue: But the question was silly. I mean, he might as well ask "Windowed mode, or full screen?" Or ask "Are surfaces allowed?" Or even "what frame rate should I use?" We get questions like this in every competition.

Look, paul23 hasn't placed any restrictions like this in the rules (1st post). Of course, HE MAY do this at some point. He might require 2D/particle solutions. But so far he hasn't. Until then, we have paul's rules: GML or DnD / GM8, 8.1, or GM:HTML5 / no extensions. Period.

Personally, I may try two different approaches: the first using particle effects in 2D, and the second using 3D objects. Not sure which will work best.

.


Better said: they will come.. But when I made this post I simply won't have the time to create the rules, that's what this week is for. You discussing what rules may be. Me simply watching and making decision taking into account discussion. Personally I'm leaning now towards simply 2d-front view effects: those are more accessible to create. And by keeping the submissions similar, I make judging way easier :P.
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#29 Desert Dog

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 07:25 PM

You discussing what rules may be. Me simply watching and making decision taking into account discussion.


So, we gonna do this windowed, or fullscreen? ;)
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#30 11clock

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 04:23 AM

Here is my entry!

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#31 paul23

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 11:45 AM

Here is my entry!

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Amazing how I can judge entries without looking at their code!
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#32 Docopoper

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 09:54 PM

I'll probably skip this one (not really into realism effects - I prefer abstraction) - but I have an idea for a later challenge:

Fastest / Best conversion from a surface to a ds_grid and vice versa.

Either that or 100% GML shaders.

Having some fast surface to grid conversion methods would really open up a lot of other engines.
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The first thing I would do with infinite power would be to make myself a cave where I could look at my shadow forever.

 

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#33 Desert Dog

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 10:01 PM

I'm thinking a 2d, platform view. I'd either use a surface, and work with deforming it, or just some sort of primitive set up.
Never really worked with either, much, so... hmm.

The other idea would be a particle effect. Rock hits water, the water itself doesn't change, but I create a particle effect that looks pretty splashy.

I'm not one for big, expensive effects, so don't expect anything fancy from me. :P
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#34 paul23

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 11:04 PM

Just to inform everyone, the submission topic is now up. You have a full week (at least, till I close the topic) to make submissions.

Remember that as this is a trial run there might be minor changes to rules during the week. Though I doubt that really happens a lot.
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#35 chance

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:48 PM

Just to inform everyone, the submission topic is now up.

Challenge on! :smile: I'll abandon my 3D thoughts and think about 2D side view (presumably the same as your "front view"). I was leaning toward that anyways, because I'm eager to try a simple water-surface profile effect. A big impact wave... then dying down to ripples. We'll see how it goes.

The specific rules for this challenge seem pretty clear. The goal is to make a realistic looking splash effect in code -- but also one that's fairly easy for someone else to use. Hence, the variables for customization.

But what does this mean:

...please remember that the effect you generate should not be over-the-top.

What exactly do you mean by "not over the top"?
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#36 paul23

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 05:04 PM

But what does this mean:


...please remember that the effect you generate should not be over-the-top.

What exactly do you mean by "not over the top"?

Burning the cpu of my pc because of millions of particles/objects in the effect is definatelly over the top. It's just a reminder that code should always be made so that others can use it.
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#37 The Legend

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 08:55 PM

Splash, huh? I'm working on a different project already but I've got extra time on my hands. I'm game. I like the fact that you have so much time.
EDIT: Lost all extra time. Wasnt really thrilled about the theme in the first place...

Edited by The Legend, 17 February 2012 - 07:09 PM.

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#38 chance

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 12:24 PM


What exactly do you mean by "not over the top"?

Burning the cpu of my pc because of millions of particles/objects in the effect is definatelly over the top. It's just a reminder that code should always be made so that others can use it.

I figured that's what you meant. But wanted to be sure. So thanks.

*****
OK... I finally got started. So far I'm focusing on the water surface. Got a nice wave thing going when the rock hits. It's not an accurate physics simulation, but it looks pretty realistic. There's a big impact wave, then it dies down to small quiescent waves.

I'm planning it so users can replace my rock with an object of their own (within size limits). That way, it can be easily incorporated into a game. I'll update this as I go along.

@paul23: can I post in the submission topic now... and update that post -- sort of like a blog? Or would you rather just use that for "final" submissions?
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#39 paul23

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 02:49 PM

Well as long as there's not more than 1 post per user, and the moment you post you have already "something" (doesn't have to be complete, just that I know it's an entry) it's fine. - Though I hope for discussion about submission to stay here - and not litter the other topic.
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#40 RedOctober

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 02:53 PM

I was planning to join this challenge. I did some searching and reading on how this could be done. I could probably do it if I had more knowledge of the mathematics behind fluid mechanics. However, I don't have the time to work on this. I wish everyone else luck. :)
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#41 chance

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:10 PM

Well as long as there's not more than 1 post per user, and the moment you post you have already "something" (doesn't have to be complete, just that I know it's an entry) it's fine. - Though I hope for discussion about submission to stay here - and not litter the other topic.

OK. But since I wasn't planning to post the actual code until the end, I better just wait. If I have an epiphany, I'll post it here.



I could probably do it if I had more knowledge of the mathematics behind fluid mechanics.

physics schymics... you don't need fluid mechanics. :tongue: Appearance is all that matters. If you've ever seen water splash, you got all the background you need.

So you should enter.
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#42 Follomania

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 11:42 PM

I've got my core splash and wave mechanics done, which gives me several days to work on optimization. Currently, my computer only runs a splash at 85 frames per second. :(
But atleast it's looking pretty thus far.
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#43 chance

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 01:28 PM

I've got my core splash and wave mechanics done, which gives me several days to work on optimization.

Looking good Follomania. +1

But I'm a bit worried we don't have more participants. Or maybe they're just too busy coding to post here? Actually, it seems like the Jam is still dominating everyone's attention. Especially since Mark hasn't awarded all the prizes yet. (Best of... and the best review).

@paul: have you considered extending and/or delaying the Challenge? Maybe until the Jam excitement dies down a bit? I'd hate to see this fail simply because it's over-shadowed by other events.
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#44 orange08

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 03:24 PM

But I'm a bit worried we don't have more participants. Or maybe they're just too busy coding to post here? Actually, it seems like the Jam is still dominating everyone's attention. Especially since Mark hasn't awarded all the prizes yet. (Best of... and the best review).


I'm working on a splashing thingy too ;) So Follomania isn't gonna take the prize so easily.
Edit: Just posted it on the official topic... am I allowed to make 2 entries?

Edited by orange08, 15 February 2012 - 03:28 PM.

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#45 IceMetalPunk

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 12:19 AM

I just saw this and thought I'd give it a try. I have the splash itself done fairly well, I'm just having a bit of trouble with the water surface distortion...I get the feeling school will end up not giving me enough time to work on this (like the Jam votes >_<), but I'll try.

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#46 paul23

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 09:42 AM

Hmm I'm not opposed to extending the submission time by a week or something - but I'll first discuss this with nocturne :). It wass more or less that from the original topic it seemed the GMC wanted something on a weekly/monthly basis :confused:
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#47 chance

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 10:40 AM


@paul: have you considered extending and/or delaying the Challenge? Maybe until the Jam excitement dies down a bit? I'd hate to see this fail simply because it's over-shadowed by other events.

Hmm I'm not opposed to extending the submission time by a week or something - but I'll first discuss this with nocturne :). It wass more or less that from the original topic it seemed the GMC wanted something on a weekly/monthly basis :confused:

Yes, but the original topic was mostly about the cage match. And weekly/monthly is fine if members just have to vote. But for coding challenges, less frequent might be better.

Either way, I'm personally OK with monthly challenges, except for when they overlap with a Jam. That was my only concern here.
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#48 Docopoper

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 06:31 PM

I don't think splashes is the best theme to get a lot of people participating - because I for one, expect that if I entered, my entry would easily be eclipsed by people that are familiar with getting ripples to work correctly. Posted ImageAlso - homework is killing me.
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The first thing I would do with infinite power would be to make myself a cave where I could look at my shadow forever.

 

The destination is much harder to reach when you don't want to walk towards it.


#49 Rusty

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 07:19 PM

I don't think splashes is the best theme to get a lot of people participating - because I for one, expect that if I entered, my entry would easily be eclipsed by people that are familiar with getting ripples to work correctly. Posted ImageAlso - homework is killing me.

I was going to enter, and could have easily pulled out a nice slash effect using sprites but I failed to be able to get hold of a solid answer on the subject and therefore, gave up.
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tumblr_ngbm3tNUVy1thlk7do1_75sq.png

Professor Rusty says: "Check out the Project Jin Engine Test for Jan 2015 on it's GMC Topic!!"


#50 paul23

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 07:26 PM

get hold of a solid answer

???

But I guess I'll give everyone another week to study the subject a bit more.. Seems I chose a bit too difficult challenge :whistle: . But remember, it doesn't have to be perfect, and the more difficult it is the better it is to have something working
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