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Games stole from the YYGS on Softpedia?!?


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#1 kikjezrous

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 12:25 AM

Alright, here is me, and here is something I found. I never posted anything on Softpedia, so naturally, I was shocked. I tried searching for other members' creations on Softpedia, when I noticed that none of the links for stole games worked, and they didn't show in search results. Then I tried it in Google. That showed up. So why would there be hidden/dud links in Softpedia, that only show up in a third party search engine? I'm wondering if thishas happened to anyone else, and also if anyone knows why and who.

Thanks,
mangosteenGames

EDIT: the link to the hidden Softpedia site is broke! Here is the URL: http://games.softped...ames-24887.html

EDIT EDIT: I'm flabbergasted. The URL doesn't work either! Posted Image


MOD EDIT : Fixed that URL as you seemed to be having problems... Posted Image

Edited by Nocturne, 21 January 2012 - 12:57 AM.

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#2 Loaf

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 12:37 AM

Softpedia site is broke! Here is the URL: games.softpedia.com/developebr/mangosteenGames-24887.htmlEDIT EDIT: I'm flabbergasted. The URL doesn't work either! Posted Image


Thats because you added a space in the link and an extra B in developer.

I always thought Softpedia listed software without asking but you can ask to have it removed? Its hardly stolen if its your games credited to your group. They are just listing them.

Edited by Loaf, 21 January 2012 - 12:37 AM.

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#3 orange08

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 12:44 AM

Yes, this has happened to me, I don't really care though.

Links:
http://games.softped...umper-Men.shtml (Jumper Men is a real old game of mine that is actually no longer on YYG)
http://games.softped...he-Ugly-2.shtml (Saga Of The Ugly 2 is the game I collaborated with Bret Hudson on)
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#4 kikjezrous

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 12:45 AM

Alright, I had a suspicion that they auto-loaded them.
Thanks, I was freaked out when I saw them. Just why did they change the description, do you know?
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#5 Brawl

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 02:12 AM

Whether you care or not isn't the issue. It is 110% illegal to do this. They've been doing it for years and there needs to be an end to it. That is your game and they are not permitted to distribute it without your permission.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I actually could NOT find in any part of the EULA that the game is your property, but I do believe you have a copyright through YYG on anything that you create that is within the Terms.

Whether you do posses some form of copyright over the game or not, it is still unethical to steal...
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#6 tempori

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 02:26 AM

I actually could NOT find in any part of the EULA that the game is your property, but I do believe you have a copyright through YYG on anything that you create that is within the Terms.


What the hell does this even mean?
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#7 Brawl

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 02:48 AM


I actually could NOT find in any part of the EULA that the game is your property, but I do believe you have a copyright through YYG on anything that you create that is within the Terms.


What the hell does this even mean?



It means that I looked through the Game Maker EULA and couldn't find any evidence that the games we create are under any copyright, or even our own property. I may have just missed it though. Somewhere it should explain the copyright and possession rights of the games we create... If not it should probably be revised to do so.
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#8 tempori

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 03:06 AM

The instant your began writing, drawing coding something it is automatically considered your copyright.

In all countries where the Berne Convention standards apply, copyright is automatic, and need not be obtained through official registration with any government office. Once an idea has been reduced to tangible form, for example by securing it in a fixed medium (such as a drawing, sheet music, photograph, a videotape, or a computer file), the copyright holder is entitled to enforce his or her exclusive rights.


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#9 Brawl

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 03:25 AM

The instant your began writing, drawing coding something it is automatically considered your copyright.

In all countries where the Berne Convention standards apply, copyright is automatic, and need not be obtained through official registration with any government office. Once an idea has been reduced to tangible form, for example by securing it in a fixed medium (such as a drawing, sheet music, photograph, a videotape, or a computer file), the copyright holder is entitled to enforce his or her exclusive rights.

Awesome. Wasn't aware of that. Thank you. That does indeed make what Softpedia is doing illegal. Too bad no one cares enough to get it shut down for stealing. Megaupload got shutdown and the owners arrested, so the same thing should happen in this situation in my opinion. :(
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#10 JacksonYarr

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 03:48 AM

The EULA is certainly an interesting read. All the liability lies with the games creator, however YoYo Games retain some control over the executables - for example:

"3.3. Neither you nor any third party may modify, adapt, decompile or reverse engineer the Games."

In reality this is just to protect the GameMaker runner that's bundled with the executables (Which we don't own) - but it's just one of many examples that we don't completely own the executables.

I can't see anything indicating that we surrender any of the copyright we hold to YoYo Games. So one would assume that YoYo Games don't have full control over the games either, only the GameMaker runner.

One of the more interesting points in the EULA is this:

"3.4. e. the Games and all materials accompanying the Games shall include a notice and End User Licence Terms: (i) identifying the rights of YoYo Games and that they include, are based on and made using the Software;"

Given that I don't think I've ever seen a GameMaker game bundled with an EULA that includes the rights YoYo Games hold over the executable - it appears a huge number of people on the GMC have violated the GameMaker EULA, giving YoYo Games the legal right to terminate their licence if they pleased.

Granted I don't think YoYo ever would terminate such a large number of people's agreements just for violating this condition - but the fact that they have the legal right to do so is quite concerning.

From YoYo Games perspective though, I don't anything in the EULA is too outrageous since they're only trying to protect themselves. But again, from a user perspective, it is concerning.
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#11 NakedPaulToast

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 05:06 AM

Awesome. Wasn't aware of that. Thank you. That does indeed make what Softpedia is doing illegal. Too bad no one cares enough to get it shut down for stealing. Megaupload got shutdown and the owners arrested, so the same thing should happen in this situation in my opinion. :(

Gee, if only there was some legislation where the copyright owner could have a website shutdown for hosting illegal content. While I'll bet the majority of Internet users would love such a mechanism and support it.
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#12 masterm

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 05:19 AM

Given that I don't think I've ever seen a GameMaker game bundled with an EULA that includes the rights YoYo Games hold over the executable - it appears a huge number of people on the GMC have violated the GameMaker EULA, giving YoYo Games the legal right to terminate their licence if they pleased.


I made my own EULA that forbids one to do thesame thing that the Yoyo EULA forbids so i only added my version of EULA but its basically almost thesame EULA, i bundled it with the game...can they still terminate my licence or do i HAVE to bundle it with the one Yoyo games provides with gamemaker?
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#13 Brawl

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 05:24 AM


Awesome. Wasn't aware of that. Thank you. That does indeed make what Softpedia is doing illegal. Too bad no one cares enough to get it shut down for stealing. Megaupload got shutdown and the owners arrested, so the same thing should happen in this situation in my opinion. :(

Gee, if only there was some legislation where the copyright owner could have a website shutdown for hosting illegal content. While I'll bet the majority of Internet users would love such a mechanism and support it.



Not sure what country you are from, but here in America, there's already law for that... excluding SOPA of course. No need for such obvious sarcasm.
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#14 TheSnidr

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 09:34 AM

Wtf, they uploaded only my worst games :P
Combined they actually have almost 200 downloads there, lol. I didn't know they were uploaded, and I honestly don't mind - they're clearly saying I made them, and they're even linking to my blog, providing at least some traffic.
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#15 Nocturne

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 10:02 AM

I fail to see where the breach of copyright in all this is... They clearly state that the games are made by the OP (or whoever) and take no credit themselves for them. Also, if you are going to host an exe on a site then you shouldn't be surprised that it can be leached for other sites to download too... in fact, I'd be rather pleased that your games are getting out there to a wider audience than you expected!



Awesome. Wasn't aware of that. Thank you. That does indeed make what Softpedia is doing illegal. Too bad no one cares enough to get it shut down for stealing. Megaupload got shutdown and the owners arrested, so the same thing should happen in this situation in my opinion. :(

Gee, if only there was some legislation where the copyright owner could have a website shutdown for hosting illegal content. While I'll bet the majority of Internet users would love such a mechanism and support it.

Not sure what country you are from, but here in America, there's already law for that... excluding SOPA of course. No need for such obvious sarcasm.

It's NPT... It's what he does... deal with it...


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#16 GameDevDan

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 12:03 PM

in fact, I'd be rather pleased that your games are getting out there to a wider audience than you expected!


THIS.

My *FREE games and software have pretty much all been added to softpedia, and they ALL got more plays there than at YYGs or the GMC. In fact, a lot of my website traffic is directed from softpedia, so I pretty much love them for archiving my stuff.

AND - *It's not like they've taken paid products and sold them / distributed them free. So it all works out great.

Edited by GameDevDan, 23 January 2012 - 12:03 PM.

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#17 kikjezrous

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 12:19 PM


Awesome. Wasn't aware of that. Thank you. That does indeed make what Softpedia is doing illegal. Too bad no one cares enough to get it shut down for stealing. Megaupload got shutdown and the owners arrested, so the same thing should happen in this situation in my opinion. :(

Gee, if only there was some legislation where the copyright owner could have a website shutdown for hosting illegal content. While I'll bet the majority of Internet users would love such a mechanism and support it.


XD

in fact, I'd be rather pleased that your games are getting out there to a wider audience than you expected!


THIS.

My *FREE games and software have pretty much all been added to softpedia, and they ALL got more plays there than at YYGs or the GMC. In fact, a lot of my website traffic is directed from softpedia, so I pretty much love them for archiving my stuff.

AND - *It's not like they've taken paid products and sold them / distributed them free. So it all works out great.

Yes, but....
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#18 chance

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 12:25 PM

@mangosteenGames: I've sent several emails to Softpedia (as a concerned user) demanding that they remove your games immediately. I've also sent dozens of PMs to other GM users asking them to send email as well.

We'll do our best to get your games off of Softpedia, so nobody can play them there.
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#19 kikjezrous

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 12:33 PM

Danke sehr!! I'd like them on there, but only after I finished them, and I POST THEM!
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#20 chance

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 12:59 PM

Danke sehr!! I'd like them on there, but only after I finished them, and I POST THEM!

But... if they weren't finished, why did you post them on YoYo Games in the first place?

Seriously, just contact Softpedia and ask them to remove your games. They'll do so. If that's what you really want. :wink:
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#21 Smarty

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 01:51 PM

Wtf, they uploaded only my worst games :P
Combined they actually have almost 200 downloads there, lol. I didn't know they were uploaded, and I honestly don't mind - they're clearly saying I made them, and they're even linking to my blog, providing at least some traffic.

Yes. And at the same time, without your consent, they're getting advertisement revenue for all the ads viewed and possibly clicked because people went there and viewed and / or downloaded your game. It might not be much, but if their business plan is to simply redistribute as much software as they can then heck, all the page views will certainly add up. And they've found a very easy way to get as much software on their site as they can; not asking for permission.
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#22 kikjezrous

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 06:01 PM

Well, I don't mind them making money that I never would, but I just think it not unreasonable that I want control over the distribution of my games.
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#23 Brawl

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 10:42 PM


Danke sehr!! I'd like them on there, but only after I finished them, and I POST THEM!

But... if they weren't finished, why did you post them on YoYo Games in the first place?


Well there is a demo section for a reason. Sometimes you want to release a game before it's complete to attract an audience. A ton of indie game makers do this. Minecraft has been our for three years almost and only just reached version one last month.

I find it annoying that no one has tried to get rid of that horrendous site... I think there is more legality in The Pirate Bay than there is here on Softpedia. I think that if they really want to have such a huge selection of software they should provide a link to the original download page. That way both sides benefit and they are in no position for legal action to be taken against them.

It's like they didn't even think of the legal options before jumping right to the annoying and illegal ones... >.<
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#24 kikjezrous

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 11:33 PM

This:

I think that if they really want to have such a huge selection of software they should provide a link to the original download page. That way both sides benefit and they are in no position for legal action to be taken against them.


If they did this, I would love this site. PETITION TIME! Posted Image
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#25 chance

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 08:48 AM

It's like they didn't even think of the legal options before jumping right to the annoying and illegal ones... >.<

What laws is Softpedia breaking? Please understand... I'm not saying they're legal. Because I honestly don't know.

They aren't selling these freeware games. They aren't claiming ownership. They aren't re-using copyrighted material in other products. And they provide a link back to the author's homepage (if available).

Like Smarty suggests, it may seem unethical to make advertising money by re-hosting other people's games. But is it illegal to re-host freeware "as is", if the author hasn't expressly forbidden it?
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#26 NakedPaulToast

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 11:32 AM


It's like they didn't even think of the legal options before jumping right to the annoying and illegal ones... >.<

What laws is Softpedia breaking? Please understand... I'm not saying they're legal. Because I honestly don't know.

They aren't selling these freeware games. They aren't claiming ownership. They aren't re-using copyrighted material in other products. And they provide a link back to the author's homepage (if available).

Like Smarty suggests, it may seem unethical to make advertising money by re-hosting other people's games. But is it illegal to re-host freeware "as is", if the author hasn't expressly forbidden it?


Yes.

You can't distribute copyrighted material simply because the owner hasn't forbidden it, you need the owners permission. Softpedia is another site that is using DMCA has a shield, they earn income from ads, taking away ad income from sites that legitimately host the file.

They get away with it because of DMCA and because none of their victims lose a significant amount of money. So instead of having a few victims with significant damage, they steal from a lot of victims each with insignificant damage. But the pennies add up for their benifit.

They are akin to a bank stealing a few pennies from a lot of its customers. No single customer has been damaged significantly, but the pennies can add up.
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#27 chance

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 12:33 PM

You can't distribute copyrighted material simply because the owner hasn't forbidden it, you need the owners permission.

We all understand this when it applies to using someone's copyrighted material in another game -- even free games -- whether or not the author is credited. Or when a singer performs a copyrighted song.

So I agree that applies here too.

But I raised the question because softpedia could provide nearly the same service without actually hosting the copyrighted material (as Brawl said above). By building their site around links to the source (instead of hosting), they could still have game reviews, show screenshots of the games, have game ratings,etc. All that would be considered "fair use" under the commentary and criticism clause.

In essence, they're still profiting by "using someone's copyrighted material". It's an interesting subtlety.

.

Edited by chance, 24 January 2012 - 12:44 PM.

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#28 Smarty

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 11:55 AM

But I raised the question because softpedia could provide nearly the same service without actually hosting the copyrighted material (as Brawl said above). By building their site around links to the source (instead of hosting),

The proper way to do this is linking to the web page of the copyright holder containing the content. The improper way to do this is hotlinking, i.e. directly providing the download link. It is frowned upon in Internet land, not only because you're stealing away the page hits, but also because you're letting them handle the traffic for the downloads nonetheless.

For what it's worth, hotlinking isn't a likely choice a company like Softpedia would use, for at least one very good reason: they have no control over the actual content of the link. It may be removed, leading to pages with broken download links; it could also be replaced with something unrelated or malicious, which would be detrimental to the popularity of the website.

they could still have game reviews, show screenshots of the games, have game ratings,etc. All that would be considered "fair use" under the commentary and criticism clause.

You'll agree that game reviews with screenshots and ratings are, at least, content they have provided on their own and are therefore perfectly entitled to earn from.

Edited by Smarty, 25 January 2012 - 11:56 AM.

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#29 chance

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 12:43 PM


But I raised the question because softpedia could provide nearly the same service without actually hosting the copyrighted material (as Brawl said above). By building their site around links to the source (instead of hosting),

The proper way to do this is linking to the web page of the copyright holder containing the content. The improper way to do this is hotlinking, i.e. directly providing the download link. It is frowned upon in Internet land, not only because you're stealing away the page hits, but also because you're letting them handle the traffic for the downloads nonetheless.

Yes, hotlinking is clearly rude. But it makes me wonder... for example, could someone legally operate a website by hotlinking games from other games websites, such as YYG or Big Fish?

Clearly, it's a sleazy way to leech off other people. And it's very impractical, as you pointed out. But so long as it doesn't duplicate other copyrighted material (such as website banners, logos, company names, etc) is it legal? I wonder if there are many examples of this.



You'll agree that game reviews with screenshots and ratings are, at least, content they have provided on their own and are therefore perfectly entitled to earn from.

Yes, that was my point. Those aspects of softpedia are justifiable -- not to mention perfectly legal.
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#30 Smarty

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 09:47 PM

But so long as it doesn't duplicate other copyrighted material (such as website banners, logos, company names, etc) is it legal? I wonder if there are many examples of this.

It may be considered a form of republishing, and whether it can be deemed illegal or not depends on the jurisdiction you fall under. The answer is probably that it is permissible in some cases, but not in others. For example, a mere search engine such as Google provides both hotlinking and redistribution (cached pages) of your web content. But it must be said it's easy to opt out on particular pages by specifying the required HTML tag (search engines play such a central, indispensable role on the Internet that it makes sense that you need to explicitly opt out rather than opt in).
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