346 replies to this topic

[Perplexity]

Did you even watch that video? It's about ACTA, SOPA, PIPA, and RIAA. I said Obama is pathetic because, if you had watched the video you would know this already, he's working with the RIAA and siding with them when they're going around suing children for a ton of money. He AGREES with the way they're handling the situation.

I apologize for dismissing your post.   Your comment made me think it was humorous video of mindless bashing.  +1 for my apology.

The motivation behind these bills isn't that simple.  It's true many democrats side with Hollywood because of campaign support.   For same reason many republicans side with big banks and Wall Street.  But that doesn't mean they have personal stakes in suing anybody for copyright, or foreclosing on anybody's house.

T...when I said one should worry about an act that is more than a few pages long... Why the excessive wording? No one can read them things sequentially without missing key factors.  

The Magna Carta and the US Bill of Rights are relatively short by comparison.  But the devil is in the details.  If we tried to govern ourselves solely with general laws like those, every prosecution would wind up in court for "interpretation".  It's not practical.

These bills are long because the subject is complex.  They address many of different situations, different types of individual and business relationships, different circumstances, legal agreements, liabilities, enforcement regulations, personal protections, etc.  You can't cover all these issues in three pages.

So I'd rather have a lengthy bill that's explicit, free from ambiguity, and sets clear boundaries..  Non-explicit laws can be more easily abused.

One of my friends, who had unfortunately distributed a lot of pirated material through Mega Upload, has already gotten an email from someone related to the Government/RIAA. They made him delete everything he uploaded, and delete all of the material from his computers. He said that it scare the chizz out of him. He's just lucky that they didn't sue him or anything...

I know that this is somewhat unrelated but it proves that the Government/IRAA are indeed going after people that used Mega Upload for illegal purposes.

A thought occurs to me that I find funny. Robin Hood stole from the rich and gave to the poor. We grow up with movies and books about him and are taught that what he did was a good thing. Isn't that(in a sense) what people that upload this content are doing? Their stealing barely affects these giant corporations, but they have a pretty big impact on quite a lot of lives. A lot of people can't afford to by the music and games they want, by downloading it for free their lives are made that much more bearable. Hmmm, if the poorer part of America is the main workforce, and giving them this stuff that doesn't affect the big corporations makes them happy, and if they're happy they work harder, and if they work harder that stimulates the economy, SOPA is trying to destroy the economy? No downloads = sadder(especially when everywhere you go you see people with nice things,) sadder = works less and higher suicide rates, work less = more outsourcing, more outsourcing = decline in sales in America, that = the collapse of a civilization?

[kikjezrous]

Robin Hood was hunted by the king until... he died or the king did. Don't think that the giant corperations will say "Sure, you are so wonderful! Come make a %0.01 nick in our income!" Uhh... no.

[Rusty]

One of my friends, who had unfortunately distributed a lot of pirated material through Mega Upload, has already gotten an email from someone related to the Government/RIAA. They made him delete everything he uploaded, and delete all of the material from his computers. He said that it scare the chizz out of him. He's just lucky that they didn't sue him or anything...

I know that this is somewhat unrelated but it proves that the Government/IRAA are indeed going after people that used Mega Upload for illegal purposes.

Of course they did you moron. There is nothing "unfortunate" about it. You've basically damaged your own point.

SOPA is trying to destroy the economy? No downloads = sadder(especially when everywhere you go you see people with nice things,) sadder = works less and higher suicide rates, work less = more outsourcing, more outsourcing = decline in sales in America, that = the collapse of a civilization?

People are going to commit suicide over the loss of MegaUpload? Please leave the Internet by your nearest exit point, you are clearly too stupid to be here.

Edited by Rusty, 09 February 2012 - 03:46 PM.

[Perplexity]

One of my friends, who had unfortunately distributed a lot of pirated material through Mega Upload, has already gotten an email from someone related to the Government/RIAA. They made him delete everything he uploaded, and delete all of the material from his computers. He said that it scare the chizz out of him. He's just lucky that they didn't sue him or anything...

I know that this is somewhat unrelated but it proves that the Government/IRAA are indeed going after people that used Mega Upload for illegal purposes.

Of course they did you moron. There is nothing "unfortunate" about it. You've basically damaged your own point.

SOPA is trying to destroy the economy? No downloads = sadder(especially when everywhere you go you see people with nice things,) sadder = works less and higher suicide rates, work less = more outsourcing, more outsourcing = decline in sales in America, that = the collapse of a civilization?

People are going to commit suicide over the loss of MegaUpload? Please leave the Internet by your nearest exit point, you are clearly too stupid to be here.

You really feel the need to call me a moron and to call me stupid?! You should be banned you jerk.

I shared my opinions on the subject, and shared information. That makes me a moron?

Also, I never said people are going to commit suicide over the loss of MegaUpload, the two things I said were unrelated and also, yes I said it was unfortunate, but I meant that it was unfortunate that he was sharing pirated material, not that it was unfortunate he was told to remove everything.

You need to learn to be more polite.

[chance]

Robin Hood stole from the rich and gave to the poor. We grow up with movies and books about him and are taught that what he did was a good thing. Isn't that(in a sense) what people that upload this content are doing?

No. In the Robin Hood myth, he occasionally stole from the rich to give poor peasants the necessities for survival.

Today's digital pirates deal in luxury and recreational items -- not necessities of life. And their "customers" have computers and high-speed internet connections. They're hardly starving peasants.

[kikjezrous]

Bring out the fire engines! Flames are starting to engulf this topic.\!

[Perplexity]

Robin Hood stole from the rich and gave to the poor. We grow up with movies and books about him and are taught that what he did was a good thing. Isn't that(in a sense) what people that upload this content are doing?

No.  In the Robin Hood  myth, he occasionally stole from the rich to give poor peasants the necessities for survival.

Today's digital pirates deal in luxury and recreational items -- not necessities of life.  And their "customers" have computers and high-speed internet connections.  They're hardly starving peasants.  :dry:

That's true. x) It was just a random thought that came to mind and I felt like sharing it. We should probably try going back on topic though but I don't have much more to say on the topic at the moment though so somebody else will have to do that lol.

[Rusty]

You really feel the need to call me a moron and to call me stupid?! You should be banned you jerk.

I shared my opinions on the subject, and shared information. That makes me a moron?

Also, I never said people are going to commit suicide over the loss of MegaUpload, the two things I said were unrelated and also, yes I said it was unfortunate, but I meant that it was unfortunate that he was sharing pirated material, not that it was unfortunate he was told to remove everything.

You need to learn to be more polite.

You said that SOPA is basically going to destroy the world as we know it by stopping downloads. You're an idiot. I can't sugar coat that.

[Perplexity]

You really feel the need to call me a moron and to call me stupid?! You should be banned you jerk.

I shared my opinions on the subject, and shared information. That makes me a moron?

Also, I never said people are going to commit suicide over the loss of MegaUpload, the two things I said were unrelated and also, yes I said it was unfortunate, but I meant that it was unfortunate that he was sharing pirated material, not that it was unfortunate he was told to remove everything.

You need to learn to be more polite.

You said that SOPA is basically going to destroy the world as we know it by stopping downloads. You're an idiot. I can't sugar coat that.

I love you too. <3

EDIT: In all seriousness you're misinterpreting what I said. I never stated that this would happen, did you miss the question mark at the end? You must have.
You just seem like a really arrogant person and I highly suggest that you stop calling me an idiot. You don't know me at all. You're judging my intelligence off of a single post that, as I said before, you're simply misinterpreting.

It was a "What if?" type of thing. Get over it and go away.

If you really feel the need to continue this conversation PM me. I'm not going to sit here and continue going off topic.

Edited by Perplexity, 09 February 2012 - 07:11 PM.

[Rusty]

You really feel the need to call me a moron and to call me stupid?! You should be banned you jerk.

I shared my opinions on the subject, and shared information. That makes me a moron?

Also, I never said people are going to commit suicide over the loss of MegaUpload, the two things I said were unrelated and also, yes I said it was unfortunate, but I meant that it was unfortunate that he was sharing pirated material, not that it was unfortunate he was told to remove everything.

You need to learn to be more polite.

You said that SOPA is basically going to destroy the world as we know it by stopping downloads. You're an idiot. I can't sugar coat that.

I love you too. <3

You always hurt the ones you love huh? Come on big boy, gimme a hug!

[icuurd12b42]

These bills are long because the subject is complex. They address many of different situations, different types of individual and business relationships, different circumstances, legal agreements, liabilities, enforcement regulations, personal protections, etc. You can't cover all these issues in three pages.

So I'd rather have a lengthy bill that's explicit, free from ambiguity, and sets clear boundaries.. Non-explicit laws can be more easily abused.

Oh, I agree, but most times it borders on idiotic lengthy wording.

I mean how hard is it to use non interpretable English in a wording that is comprehensive to all

Also, going into too great length to describe a particular concept, say how the web works, assures that new methods are not covered.

Precisions can be worded in un-interpretable Generalities without going into details of the process involved at the time.

The whole of C-11 could be summed up into a few sentences. These Acts are different than say the building code, where there is a need for the anal retentiveness micro precision of the wordings.

[greep]

These bills are long because the subject is complex. They address many of different situations, different types of individual and business relationships, different circumstances, legal agreements, liabilities, enforcement regulations, personal protections, etc. You can't cover all these issues in three pages.

So I'd rather have a lengthy bill that's explicit, free from ambiguity, and sets clear boundaries.. Non-explicit laws can be more easily abused.

Oh, I agree, but most times it borders on idiotic lengthy wording.

I mean how hard is it to use non interpretable English in a wording that is comprehensive to all

Also, going into too great length to describe a particular concept, say how the web works, assures that new methods are not covered.

Precisions can be worded in un-interpretable Generalities without going into details of the process involved at the time.

The whole of C-11 could be summed up into a few sentences. These Acts are different than say the building code, where there is a need for the anal retentiveness micro precision of the wordings.

Perhaps they should simply come with paraphrases for each sentence, when it comes to deciding to pass the law. Additionally, use of a friggin period should be enforced every 30 words in bills. Yes it is possible without any loss of meaning. Yes, people can in fact write bills that make sense while maintaining unambiguity. They just choose to put in about 20 commas so only people trained in lawspeak can decipher when one phrase starts and when one phrase is still part of a descriptive phrase, because it makes them feel important.

[chance]

These bills are long because the subject is complex. They address many of different situations, different types of individual and business relationships, different circumstances, legal agreements, liabilities, enforcement regulations, personal protections, etc. You can't cover all these issues in three pages.

<...>
The whole of C-11 could be summed up into a few sentences. These Acts are different than say the building code, where there is a need for the anal retentiveness micro precision of the wordings.

I strongly disagree. There are just too many aspects to copyright enforcement/protection, too many different circumstances, and too many exceptions, to sum up C-11 in a few pages -- let alone a few sentences. Trying to do that would render the bill either

1. too general, so it could be abused... or
2. too vague, so it couldn't be enforced effectively.

I've looked at the C-11 text, and I agree the language is occasionally verbose -- but not overly so. And frankly, I find it fairly easy to understand, and I'm certainly no lawyer.

Why is this even an issue? We should be discussing the provisions of the bill. Not its verbiage.

.

Edited by chance, 09 February 2012 - 08:25 PM.

[greep]

I'm not sure why this is even an issue. We should be discussing the provisions of the bill. Not its verbiage.

.

"Verbiage" is far more important if the people who make the laws can't even understand them.

Edited by greep, 09 February 2012 - 08:23 PM.

[chance]

I'm not sure why this is even an issue. We should be discussing the provisions of the bill. Not its verbiage.

"Verbiage" is far more important if the people who make the laws can't even understand them.

So you're saying the Canadian parliament can't understand the language in C-11? Seriously?

.

Edited by chance, 09 February 2012 - 08:33 PM.

[greep]

Understand? How about not even reading them?

http://townhall.com/columnists/byronyork/2010/10/18/profligate_congress_should_read_its_own_bills

Maybe didn't word that well Easier to understand, so that they might actually read it. I doubt canada is somehow superior in this aspect.

[icuurd12b42]

Well, verbiage aside, C-11 looks innocent enough, only the first paragraph is cause of contemplating. Oh and the last part about keeping another guy's data, if I read it right. That could put innocent people in danger.

[chance]

Well, verbiage aside, C-11 looks innocent enough...

I agree it looks like a fairly balanced bill. There's still provisions for removing copyrighted and/or pirated content from websites. But it doesn't place unreasonable burdens on website owners. Actually, it reads a lot like the DMCA - but with a bit more teeth for federal authorities.

It also leaves "digital lock" rules intact for commercial software -- so I expect lots people will be disappointed with that. But this isn't really something government can restrict IMO. That's a choice software manufacturers should make. And consumers either accept them when they purchase the software -- or not make the purchase. So they can speak with their pocketbooks.

...only the first paragraph is cause of contemplating. Oh and the last part about keeping another guy's data, if I read it right. That could put innocent people in danger.

Which sections do you mean?

[faissialoo]

Robin Hood stole from the rich and gave to the poor. We grow up with movies and books about him and are taught that what he did was a good thing. Isn't that(in a sense) what people that upload this content are doing?

No. In the Robin Hood myth, he occasionally stole...

legened actually

[icuurd12b42]

...only the first paragraph is cause of contemplating. Oh and the last part about keeping another guy's data, if I read it right. That could put innocent people in danger.

Which sections do you mean?

The last quote in my analysis post. about keepsake of data by 3rd party I think. If I read this right, say someone you know gets sued, he manages to backup his data and gives you the content for keepsake while he deletes his hard drive. He did not tell you anything but he is under investigation. It makes you an unwilling accomplice. But I guess it's the same for holding a gun used for murder.