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HTML5 support on CrySet Games


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#31 beatson

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 12:17 PM

Sorry I haven't replied much over the weekend, I've been away.

Sorry if any of you feel that CrySets rates are extremely low, and sorry if it has put you off posting developed games on CrySet.

The fact of the matter is, CrySet in September earned a grand total of 4.50 - for the whole month. In October it earned 9 (those amounts are not exact). I should have paid each developer 0.01 (or $0.016). That means leading games such as PIXEL blast should have earned around $5.40 (around 3.30). I'm currently in a rush at the moment (need to get to work) and the maths is from the top of my head, so apologies if any of it is wrong.

I'm actually working till quite late tonight, so I wont be able to amend anything till I get home, but as soon as I do, I'll make sure I review the new games (I believe Nocturne has uploaded a new version of PixelBlast) and alter the rates. I'm also going to go through every game and give you the correct amount of revenue.

Hopefully everything (Rates wise) will be fixed for tomorrow morning.

Thanks,

CrySet Games.
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#32 Nocturne

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 04:31 PM

Nice to hear Beatson! You see, I think this is where sometimes people are too quick to judge. It's obvious you have no experience in this but it's also obvious that you are willing to listen and adapt to maintain your site and try and grow and expand, learning from your mistakes and taking the best from the feedback you recieve. I like that and it says a lot about you... I can honestly say that I will definitely be uploading future games to your pages and hope that as your experience grows, so does the clientbase! At the end of the day, you are working to create a professional and user friendly site that makes everybody happy... an impossible dream, I know, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't keep working at it and striving to get as close as possible to your goal... Good luck!
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#33 slam drago

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 09:36 PM

I believe cryset will succeed.
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#34 beatson

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 10:49 PM

Nice to hear Beatson! You see, I think this is where sometimes people are too quick to judge. It's obvious you have no experience in this but it's also obvious that you are willing to listen and adapt to maintain your site and try and grow and expand, learning from your mistakes and taking the best from the feedback you recieve. I like that and it says a lot about you... I can honestly say that I will definitely be uploading future games to your pages and hope that as your experience grows, so does the clientbase! At the end of the day, you are working to create a professional and user friendly site that makes everybody happy... an impossible dream, I know, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't keep working at it and striving to get as close as possible to your goal... Good luck!

Thanks for the positivity! People are quick to judge yes, but I suppose in this case they weren't wrong in doing so. I can see how some people might have been annoyed with the lack of revenue payout.

Fortunately I've managed to add the correct amount of revenue to all the accounts quite quickly. The current rate for the remainder of this month is $0.0096 (basically $0.01) per play. This amount is based on what the CrySet website has earned through ad revenue. Any problems let me know!

Edited by beatson, 06 November 2011 - 10:49 PM.

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#35 Desert Dog

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 11:01 PM

Fortunately I've managed to add the correct amount of revenue to all the accounts quite quickly. The current rate for the remainder of this month is $0.0096 (basically $0.01) per play. This amount is based on what the CrySet website has earned through ad revenue. Any problems let me know!


By my maths, you'd get $15 every 1600 plays or so. A bit better than every 5M!

That's not too bad... passive income pocketmoney, FTW. I'll have to look at uploading some of my games, maybe. We'll see.
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#36 True Valhalla

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 11:32 PM

$10 per 1000 plays is not sustainable. AdSense does not have a CPM of $10.

Though if you could actually stick with those rates I'd be happy to upload my games ;)

Edited by True Valhalla, 06 November 2011 - 11:33 PM.

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#37 Desert Dog

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 11:49 PM

$10 per 1000 plays is not sustainable. AdSense does not have a CPM of $10.

Though if you could actually stick with those rates I'd be happy to upload my games ;)


That isn't a fixed rate, I don't think. I think he worked it how you figured earlier.
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#38 True Valhalla

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 11:52 PM

I realize that - so I'd expect it to go down to around $1-2 CPM in the future (if that)
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#39 beatson

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 11:54 PM

$10 per 1000 plays is not sustainable. AdSense does not have a CPM of $10.

Though if you could actually stick with those rates I'd be happy to upload my games ;)


That rate was based on what the site earned through Adsense for the past couple of months. Hopefully my maths isn't incorrect, although I wouldn't bet on it...

It's late and I've been working all day, hopefully someone will be able to verify the rates:

The site earned £13.39 ($21.50) from 1st of September - 31st of October. That was from 1050 (approx) plays for all games. Bearing in mind this is taking into account the whole website, not just the game pages (don't worry, I planned that) - I figured there wouldn't be a website without the developers, so I might as well share the whole profit from the site.

This was my math:

£13.39 / 2 = £6.695 (the 50% rate)
£6.695 / 1050 = £0.006 (the game plays)
0.006 British pounds = 0.0096366 U.S. dollars (conversion).

Edit: Yeah, that isn't the fixed rate, and it will go down for next month.

Edited by beatson, 06 November 2011 - 11:55 PM.

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#40 True Valhalla

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 12:03 AM

How much was the total website impressions for the month?
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#41 beatson

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 12:05 AM

How much was the total website impressions for the month?


From the 1st of September - 31st of October:

5,236 Visits
4,235 Unique Visitors
14,646 Pageviews
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#42 True Valhalla

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 12:07 AM

So I'd recommend paying developers $1.40 per 1000 plays (under the assumption you credit 2 page views per game play).
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#43 beatson

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 12:11 AM

So I'd recommend paying developers $1.40 per 1000 plays (under the assumption you credit 2 page views per game play).

So a rate of $0.0014 per play? Can I ask how you came up with that? Seeing as I'm going to need to do this again at some point.
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#44 True Valhalla

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 12:19 AM

14.6k impressions resulted in $21

CPM = 21 / 14.6 = $1.4

Views on the rest of the website should probably not count towards a developer's game plays if you're using this method rather than counting the value of each developer individually.

Now 1000 plays ('views') is worth ~$1.40, but since you only want to give developers 50%, that should be $0.70, however I think it's fair to assume each gameplay is worth at minimum 2 page impressions, so the value would remain at $1.40.

So each 1000 plays based on your current income is worth $2.80, but developers only get $1.40.

The big issue is: your traffic is not worth $2.80.

I strongly suspect that developers have been clicking the ads in order to "earn" more money. It's a common problem with this type of site. Not only is this breaking Google's terms and conditions (and will very likely result in a ban of your account if it continues), but it's also showing you a far higher CPM than you wold normally get. In reality, the amount you should be paying developers in order to remain profitable (on a normal CPM) is around $0.50-$1.00 per 1000 plays.

What I'm saying is your site is "earning" more than it should be, and it's going to result in a ban from Google if you don't rectify it.

Also, you need a privacy policy on your site disclaiming that you are using the DART cookie (as per AdSense rules). This is also a ban-worthy offence.

You've pretty much got until your next payout to fix these issues or you're guaranteed a banned AdSense account.
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#45 beatson

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 12:28 AM

14.6k impressions resulted in $21

CPM = 21 / 14.6 = $1.4

Views on the rest of the website should probably not count towards a developer's game plays if you're using this method rather than counting the value of each developer individually.

Now 1000 plays ('views') is worth ~$1.40, but since you only want to give developers 50%, that should be $0.70, however I think it's fair to assume each gameplay is worth at minimum 2 page impressions, so the value would remain at $1.40.

So each 1000 plays based on your current income is worth $2.80, but developers only get $1.40.

The big issue is: your traffic is not worth $2.80.

I strongly suspect that developers have been clicking the ads in order to "earn" more money. It's a common problem with this type of site. Not only is this breaking Google's terms and conditions (and will very likely result in a ban of your account if it continues), but it's also showing you a far higher CPM than you wold normally get. In reality, the amount you should be paying developers in order to remain profitable (on a normal CPM) is around $0.50-$1.00 per 1000 plays.

What I'm saying is your site is "earning" more than it should be, and it's going to result in a ban from Google if you don't rectify it.

Also, you need a privacy policy on your site disclaiming that you are using the DART cookie (as per AdSense rules). This is also a ban-worthy offence.

You've pretty much got until your next payout to fix these issues or you're guaranteed a banned AdSense account.

I'll add the DART cookie policy right away.

I'll amend the rate immediately (don't worry though, I'll leave everyone's account as it is. Only new revenue will generate the new rate). I pretty much understood everything above, apart from this:

It's an offence if other people "click bomb" your site? If so, how do people usually go about preventing this? Surely I cannot get banned for someone elses doing? The only thing I can think of is to ban users/IP addresses that abuse the system.

Thanks for the help True Valhalla - much appreciated.
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#46 True Valhalla

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 12:37 AM

Well let me put it to you this way: you could get pretty much any AdSense account in the world banned if you had the resources.

It is very difficult to stop 'click bombing', and if that occurs you should disable all ads and immediately contact Google. However, what you're likely experiencing is more small scale - something you should have preventative measures built in for (as Google will see it).

I'd start by not displaying AdSense ads to anyone logged into their CrySet account. Replace them with ads for other games, perhaps. A develop should not be allowed to click ads which earn money.

Secondly, install StatCounter. You can use it to track people who are repeatedly clicking ads by following their exit paths. Whenever you see someone doing this, try to match the IP to their CrySet account (though do not ban them immediately - IP addresses can be spoofed). Report this IP and the info from StatCounter to Google immediately.

If you do that frequently for any possible exploits, Google will see you are working to alert them to "bad clicks".

You also need a prominent notice somewhere telling developers not to click ads and waning them of the penalties for doing so.

I'm sure there are others measures you can think of as well.
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#47 NakedPaulToast

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 12:47 AM

(though do not ban them immediately - IP addresses can be spoofed).


Yes, IP addresses can be spoofed. But not if they are taking part in a TCP communication.

Spoofing an IP address will result in the server sending the response to the spoofed IP and NOT the host that spoofed the IP address. The TCP three way handshake will never be completed.
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#48 True Valhalla

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 12:51 AM

(though do not ban them immediately - IP addresses can be spoofed).


Yes, IP addresses can be spoofed. But not if they are taking part in a TCP communication.

Spoofing an IP address will result in the server sending the response to the spoofed IP and NOT the host that spoofed the IP address. The TCP three way handshake will never be completed.


That sounds correct, I've never thought of it like that for some reason :rolleyes:
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#49 beatson

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 06:15 PM

Cheers guys, I'll do a bit more research online into this before I implement anything. Appreciate the help.
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#50 beatson

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 01:25 AM

Haven't posted in this topic for a while, but are here are a few of CrySet's HTML5 updates:

PYG (PortYourGame) - This is a new service that is being ran on the CrySet community forums. You can submit your game to be ported to HTML5 and then uploaded to CrySet - free of course - whilst still earning all the revenue you would usually.

HTML5 API - Currently undergoing tests for the first BETA release, this will allow GM:HTML5 developers to easily integrate highscores, achievements and chat into their games. You can see the latest working version of the API in action by playing a little demo: SpaceWard.

Reviews - Relevant to all game types really. If you have reviewed a game, or know of a site that has reviewed your game, you can get a linkback to that review on your Games page over at CrySet. Just send an email to admin@cryset.co.uk with the details.

For non-HTML5 updates, head over to this topic.

Regards,

CrySet Games.

--------------------------------------EDIT-------------------------------------------

Quick notice... We've switched to a .com domain (http://cryset.com) - all .co.uk links should still work, though!

Edited by beatson, 17 January 2012 - 01:05 AM.

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#51 NeoTalon27

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 08:32 PM

For this, I love you, one of the most amazing Ideas I have yet seen, much more simple than steam, and Desure
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#52 beatson

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 08:24 PM

A few updates for you:

User List: We've put up a very simple (soon to be expanded) list of users. You'll notice that a lot of users are "level 0" - They aren't spam accounts, they were just created before major site updates, or are developers who never got their games accepted.

New forum! We've created a new forum with different software, and expanded the amount of boards. In the following weeks we're also going to be integrating the forum with the site, in hope to achieve better community interaction. We're also opening up something called "Developer Groups" - So if you have a game development team but don't have a forum to post links/discuss your game, we'll give you your own category with whatever boards you like (viewable only to members of your team).

Moderators: The back-end (stuff you don't see... not the ass of it) of the site has had a major revamp, allowing us to upgrade some users to "moderators". At the minute we're only looking for one moderator - You can apply for this position here. This will also keep the site much cleaner from spam, as well as speed up game reviews.

"Pagination": We've cleaned the site up by adding pagination to comments on blogs, games and profiles.

Ad system: You can now advertise your site directly on CrySet. $5 will get you a months worth of advertising (approx 25,000 ad views).

CrySet Games


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#53 beatson

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 07:39 PM

Revenue

We found a major flaw in the way we handled revenue/way downloads are counted (Especially in browser based games). This issue has now been fixed and you should start to notice your revenue increasing more :)
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#54 InCreator[EST]

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 09:05 PM

5,000,000 plays will only get you around $15 (off the top of my head) - but obviously a game that generates that many plays will be "upgraded" to a partnered account, and you'll earn an accurate 50% of all the ad revenue generated from your games.


ANY game that attracts 5,000,000 players or even people to play that much, should be commercial.

5 million people. Selling at say, $10 and 1 out of every 5000 players buy your game. That's 0.02% of all people interested. You can still earn $10,000 !!!
And if you cannot get ten lousy bucks out of five thousand people, you've probably failed as a game developer anyway. 5000 people is a whole big rock concert amount of people. I can bet that if I'd just walk around and simply ask so many people that money for nothing, I'd still get more than one to give.
Just think before you sell your creation for something you could sell for thousands times as much.

Now that was a realllly low example number. What if it was 0,2%?

Also "you never get so many plays if it's not on popular website" isn't really very solid argument. Everyone and their dog has average of around 130 Facebook friends. Who have another 130 friends, etc. If you share a game, 130 people see it. If 10 of them re-share or even comment, your game has been seen by 1430 people. If 10 of your friend's friends' share, do the math. It isn't that hard really nowadays where everyone's connected, even if you lower numbers and expectations reallllly low.

Edited by InCreator[EST], 27 February 2012 - 09:16 PM.

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#55 beatson

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 10:26 PM



5,000,000 plays will only get you around $15 (off the top of my head) - but obviously a game that generates that many plays will be "upgraded" to a partnered account, and you'll earn an accurate 50% of all the ad revenue generated from your games.


ANY game that attracts 5,000,000 players or even people to play that much, should be commercial.

5 million people. Selling at say, $10 and 1 out of every 5000 players buy your game. That's 0.02% of all people interested. You can still earn $10,000 !!!
And if you cannot get ten lousy bucks out of five thousand people, you've probably failed as a game developer anyway. 5000 people is a whole big rock concert amount of people. I can bet that if I'd just walk around and simply ask so many people that money for nothing, I'd still get more than one to give.
Just think before you sell your creation for something you could sell for thousands times as much.

Now that was a realllly low example number. What if it was 0,2%?

Also "you never get so many plays if it's not on popular website" isn't really very solid argument. Everyone and their dog has average of around 130 Facebook friends. Who have another 130 friends, etc. If you share a game, 130 people see it. If 10 of them re-share or even comment, your game has been seen by 1430 people. If 10 of your friend's friends' share, do the math. It isn't that hard really nowadays where everyone's connected, even if you lower numbers and expectations reallllly low.


The idea behind posting you game for free on a site like mine, is that once the site becomes popular, the games will get more attention through it than if the developer tried to sell it himself (now this obviously isn't for all developers) , based on the sites traffic. Currently, 5MILL plays gets you $5000 - maybe even more when we do weekend promotions (like the one that has just passed).

But seeing as this is the HTML5 topic... How many people are going to sell an HTML5 game commercially? Better yet, who would buy one? (assuming the games aren't built for mobiles).
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#56 beatson

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 10:52 PM

Few updates...

We've written out a small description of how we review games here

To celebrate 10,000 game plays, we're giving some $$ away - Blog post can be found here

A small public log of all the little changes that we make to CrySet. You can view that here

We've also got a new moderator on the forums - Ziggler1
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#57 icuurd12b42

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 11:14 PM

Duplicate topic here

http://gmc.yoyogames...howtopic=517436

go there for future communications
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