66 replies to this topic

[Rusty]

Let's start small talk, GMHTML5, biggest thing since flash? Possibly. Bigger than flash? Maybe. Better than flash? Meh...

It's nice to see YYG listening to us and getting a fix out for firstly the website and now the GMHTML5 theme, as a graphics artist that's a big deal for me, not worth £65 ($99). Having people able to play games straight off a website, that's a big deal, but since I couldn't afford to keep my website up why should I dish out for HTML5?

GameMaker is, in essence a beginners tool, a learning tool, the student chair and true... many of us have been around long enough to leave an imprint on the hard desk chairs that schools buy cheap in bulk but we always see an influx of new kids coming on eager to learn... or otherwise nag us into teaching them. I've not yet taken the plunge of emptying my already water tight wallet and stepping into the new scary world of HTML5 so why should I? Is it still the same GML? Is it still as easy to learn? What exactly would this mean to the new kids or aspiring indie developers? Would you get HTML5? Would you recommend GMHTML5? Do you think it's worth it?

Basically my question is, with £65 I could change the world... apparently Will Smith did it with only 7... so what makes GMHTML5 better than being 5 times better than Will Smith? I know that direct gaming is the number one thing it's selling on but is that it? I can listen to Will Smith's music without downloading but it doesn't make it any better.

Edit:
Important Notice:
This is not a topic to discuss YYG business, this is a topic to discuss GameMakerHTML5. I'm on the fence with this argument and wished to know what the community and more importantly, GMHTML5 owners thought of GMHTML5. I thought this might be helpful for myself and anyone else thinking of buying GMHTML5.

Also, I do not like Will Smith.

Edited by Rusty, 23 September 2011 - 02:12 PM.

[njp]

Let's start small talk, GMHTML5, biggest thing since flash? Possibly. Bigger than flash? Maybe. Better than flash? Meh...

It's nice to see YYG listening to us and getting a fix out for firstly the website and now the GMHTML5 theme, as a graphics artist that's a big deal for me, not worth £65 ($99). Having people able to play games straight off a website, that's a big deal, but since I couldn't afford to keep my website up why should I dish out for HTML5?

GameMaker is, in essence a beginners tool, a learning tool, the student chair and true... many of us have been around long enough to leave an imprint on the hard desk chairs that schools buy cheap in bulk but we always see an influx of new kids coming on eager to learn... or otherwise nag us into teaching them. I've not yet taken the plunge of emptying my already water tight wallet and stepping into the new scary world of HTML5 so why should I? Is it still the same GML? Is it still as easy to learn? What exactly would this mean to the new kids or aspiring indie developers? Would you get HTML5? Would you recommend GMHTML5? Do you think it's worth it?

Basically my question is, with £65 I could change the world... apparently Will Smith did it with only 7... so what makes GMHTML5 better than being 5 times better than Will Smith? I know that direct gaming is the number one thing it's selling on but is that it? I can listen to Will Smith's music without downloading but it doesn't make it any better.

(Also, I've heard that GMHTML5's price is going to raise to $199, at which point I'd have to start selling my body to purchase it, do we have any real confirmation on that?)

definitely worth the price. can you link to any cheaper html5 game development UI's with drag and drop, and an advanced code editor? maybe, but yoyo definitly put some hard work into this, and im willing to pay up to 200 for in browser game development suite. flash will die. iv dreamed about the end of flash. its not a pretty picture xD

Edited by njp, 23 September 2011 - 12:54 AM.

[IQbrew]

definitely worth the price. can you link to any cheaper html5 game development UI's with drag and drop, and an advanced code editor?

Yes, but linking to or mentioning "Competing" tools will get your links removed. So as far as people here know, there are no competing tools.

[Revel]

GMHTML is worth 99 if the developer think's it's worth $99.
For me it is not worth $99 because I have other better tools I use that are free and magnitudes more powerful. For someone who has only known how to use GM and wants to make HTML5 games, then $99 is a steal for them.
It all depends on the users experience and what they plan to do with the software.

I can listen to Will Smith's music without downloading but it doesn't make it any better.

I completely agree. Playing stuff directly in the browser provides no benefit (in fact, I haven't played a flash game in months). The only real advantage is that HTML5 engines are implemented across a few platforms so a game could be played on any platform supporting HTML5.

[Rusty]

iv dreamed about the end of flash. its not a pretty picture xD

Would you say that... flash will be gone in a flash?

Okay, you can warn status me for that one, I deserve it. But I don't see what the big deal is anyway, HTML5 may be alright but it's not the new internet, I prefer to download my games anyway, then I can play them without the internet.

Edit:
When we're talking cross platforming, what platforms actually use HTML5? I've heard the PS3 will be updating to it but then again it was from "PS3 NUM1 FAN" so I don't think that's a reliable source...

Edited by Rusty, 23 September 2011 - 01:03 AM.

[Revel]

When we're talking cross platforming, what platforms actually use HTML5? I've heard the PS3 will be updating to it but then again it was from "PS3 NUM1 FAN" so I don't think that's a reliable source...

Chrome, Firefox, etc. support HTML5, so any platform they run on can run HTML5 games.

Iphone supports it, Android supports it afaik.

And I can only assume the Ps3 will support HTML5 eventually.

[njp]

iv dreamed about the end of flash. its not a pretty picture xD

Would you say that... flash will be gone in a flash?

Okay, you can warn status me for that one, I deserve it. But I don't see what the big deal is anyway, HTML5 may be alright but it's not the new internet, I prefer to download my games anyway, then I can play them without the internet.

Edit:
When we're talking cross platforming, what platforms actually use HTML5? I've heard the PS3 will be updating to it but then again it was from "PS3 NUM1 FAN" so I don't think that's a reliable source...

i think most major company's will add html5 support to their products, im most certain sony will. although sony never did implement flash properly, its buggy and slow on my ps3.

[LeoInks]

Hahah , 99$ ? , you are worng , HTML5 is 200$$$$$$

99$ is just for beta testing , the real HTML5 is 200$$$

I have to say , it is exagerated , Okay , it has drag and drop and works on the internet , WOOOWWW , Yeah probably some people will need it , but majority of us , actually understands how to code a game , so D&D has no value here.

It is just exagerated.

Edit : just to add something so people wont start trolling : But duudeee , we are all noobs that need D&D so bla bla bla , you deserve to die , bla bla bla , go to hell , etc.

I know they have worked hard , and being serious , if it wasnt for Game Maker i wouldnt even started thinking to be a programmer in the future , Game Maker gave me the basics , now i am trying to learn some other languages , and it is all thanks to game maker , but i dont think i see myself paying 200$ just to publish games online.

Yep , would be awesome , but , okay , price for gm for windows : 30$ or 35$ ( one of those ) , now HTML5 versior for game maker : 200$

Is that necesarry? , publishing on browsers will open a whole world for indie developers that use and like game maker more than any other language , but , i think they should only double the price ( instead of 30$ , 60$ ) , But 200$ is just exagerated.

Edited by LeoInks, 23 September 2011 - 01:23 AM.

[piluke]

I personally think it's not worth the money. If they can make something with javascript and you know GML, it shouldn't be too hard to make your own.

That's sort of the philosophy of my GameMaker HTML5 Player (not advertising, just letting you know.)

Sure it might be worth it to some people, but I don't know why you need an entirely different interface for basically the same product.

[Knuked]

Hahah , 99$ ? , you are worng , HTML5 is 200$$$$$$

Wrong. If you signed up for the beta you actually get another $20 off, making it $79.

99$ is just for beta testing , the real HTML5 is 200$$$

Wrong. The Beta eventually becomes this "real product" that you speak of. Even the dumbest people I know would know that.

I have to say , it is exagerated , Okay , it has drag and drop and works on the internet , WOOOWWW , Yeah probably some people will need it , but majority of us , actually understands how to code a game , so D&D has no value here.

I get the feeling you seem to think you fall in the "us" category. I doubt that for some odd reason.

If they can make something with javascript and you know GML, it shouldn't be too hard to make your own

I look forward to checking out your version, even though I did buy GM4HTML5. To me it's well worth the $79 I paid.

Edited by Knuked, 23 September 2011 - 01:36 AM.

[LeoInks]

Hahah , 99$ ? , you are worng , HTML5 is 200$$$$$$

YOU are wrong. If you signed up for the beta you actually get another $20 off, making it $79.

99$ is just for beta testing , the real HTML5 is 200$$$

Wrong again. The Beta turns into the real product that you speak of. Even the dumbest people I know would know that.

but majority of us , actually understands how to code a game

I get the feeling you seem to think you fall in the "us" category. I highly doubt that. Judging by your post at least.

Sorry folks, I couldn't help myself, I'm bad.

Dude , i am not retarded , i know people that get the beta will be able to update , but the real price , by real i mean : when it is finished , and by that i mean when yoyogames release it completely , no beta , and by that i mean when it gets out of the beta stages ( again , i know if you buy in beta you will update free ).

Also , your points dont defeat my point of the real , final , complete , cost of the HTML5 version is 200$ , If people buy it earlier , then , good for them , but people that will know GM in some years , or not right now , will have to pay the 200$ , that is the real , final , complete price.

[Desert Dog]

Playing stuff directly in the browser provides no benefit (in fact, I haven't played a flash game in months). The only real advantage is that HTML5 engines are implemented across a few platforms so a game could be played on any platform supporting HTML5.

A browser game is a pretty big thing. Look at Warp by Granite Gear, played/downloaded 13k times off Yoyogames, the flash port played 190k times on Armor games.

Your absolutely right, HTML5, or even GM's html5 isn't for everyone. But browser games are a big chunk of the market, and actually really suit the type of games most GM users make.

[Knuked]

Playing stuff directly in the browser provides no benefit (in fact, I haven't played a flash game in months).

It's a little neat though. Unfortunately, you don't sum up the thousands or millions of people who actually do play games in browsers. I mean I hear what you're saying because I don't play them that much either. However, I sense a change for myself on the horizon.

Your absolutely right, HTML5, or even GM's html5 isn't for everyone.

Agreed.

Also , your points dont defeat my point of the real , final , complete , cost of the HTML5 version is 200$ , If people buy it earlier , then , good for them , but people that will know GM in some years , or not right now , will have to pay the 200$ , that is the real , final , complete price.

If you wait then yes it will be $200. Everyone knows this and has known this for a while now. However at this moment you can buy it much cheaper. There are no points to defeat, go look for yourself. So if you want to justify that GM4HTML5 is not worth it because it will eventually be $200, then ok. That's silly and goes without merit at this time but ok. I suppose it's more worth it to me because I got it for $79. I might be less impressed at $200 but probably not.

Edited by Knuked, 23 September 2011 - 01:54 AM.

[Knuked]

Also HTML5 canvas is meant for displaying and drawing images. NOT GAMES.

Whatever it was meant for doesn't seem to hinder the fact that I've played quite a few HTML5 games without any problems, lag, etc. It may not have been intended as a gaming platform but it seems to me that it certainly works fine as one.

HTML5 games are slow on older computers while flash is ALOT faster. I can verify this because I have an old computer.

I believe that and with good reason. Flash has been around for some time. Given the same amount of time I think HTML5 will be must faster and better supported. I'm already impressed with what I've been able to do.

Here are a few good HTML5 demos to check out. It's hard to say after seeing some of those that it won't be viable. They run as good as any Flash does for me on Firefox 6. Who knows, I'll give HTML5 a shot before I shoot it down though

[njp]

can the current html5 games be programmed to change the room size to however the browser window is stretched?

[makerofthegames]

If you can't afford it, don't buy it. If you think this topic will sway the minds of YoYoGames, I doubt it will. If you're just here to rant and find like-minded people, that's not the reason to post on the GMC.

If none of the above, then okay. Yeah, I like it's worth 99 or 200 bucks, why?

Edited by makerofthegames, 23 September 2011 - 04:21 AM.

[kburkhart84]

I picked up GM4HTML5 for the $79.

NPT mentioned this point in another post, and He was right. Sandy (via Twitter) stated that having GM4HTML will net in more than a $99 discount on GM Studio. We don't have numbers yet, but GM Studio itself interests me. HTML5 isn't a bad market, but I don't know if I will be able to utilize it properly. But, I think the Android Market is something to look at, along with the iOS market. So Studio is coming up, and I will get more of a discount on it than I paid for GM4HTML5, so I'm "making" money indirectly if you see the logic.

Plus, you could research it. HTML5 IS a viable market, though it isn't right for everyone. Sites with tons of flash games make money, yet they do it without charging the game player the money.

Last point, how can you guys compare flash to HTML5 as far as performance goes. First of all, I don't think flash was originally meant for games(though I could be wrong), rather it was added afterwards. Two, the age factor has already been mentioned. "Old" computers can run the original Unreal engine pretty fast, and so can "new" ones. But you can't expect "old" ones to run the Crysis engine can you?? The Crysis engine can do much more than the older Unreal engine, and so it requires more speed of course. HTML5(though we don't see it as well yet) seems to have that great potential in the same way. It is getting integrated everywhere, including where Flash was denied entrance, such as iOS. Note that iOS5 is supposedly going to be 10x as fast with HTML5 than iOS4. Whether you notice or not, Flash is dying, and HTML5 is taking over. Flash is similar to C++ in that it will still be around for a while, though it in a sense is a "dying" language, what with all of the competition.

So yes, I would say GM4HTML5 is worth it. If you know what you are doing, you will be able to make money with it. And they makes it that much more worth it.

One more point...did you notice how both Unity, Shiva, and the Torque engines have web players for the games created with those platforms. Sure, they require plugins(unlike HTML5) but all the companies believe that the web is viable as far as game deployment goes. I can't say they are wrong, and it would seem that YYG agrees.

[MasterOfKings]

Flash is similar to C++ in that it will still be around for a while, though it in a sense is a "dying" language, what with all of the competition.

Since when is C++ is a dying language?

Competing languages, like Java, are doing well and becoming popular, but I wouldn't say C++ is dying. UnrealScript (one guess what its for) is based off of the C++ syntax.

-MoK

[Created By Ben]

I think that GMHTML5 is worth $99. I don't think it is worth $199 since Gamemaker 8.0 is worth around $50. Both do the same thing. They make games. Only difference is one is for webpages.

Edited by Created By Ben, 23 September 2011 - 05:23 AM.

[JacksonYarr]

GM HTML5 is not worth it for me.
A few reasons:
1.) HTML5 isn't really geared for gaming. Something more suitable would be flex (a version of flash that is meant for web apps)
2.) There are a few free HTML5 builders out there.
3.) ... That theme looks awful (yes I know you can change it).
4.) I don't like YYG at all and I want there company to die. Well, I do want more GameMaker.
EDIT: And NJP, Flash is not going to die any time soon. 90% of the computers in the world have flash. And only 50% have a browser that is capable of running HTML5*. Also HTML5 canvas is meant for displaying and drawing images. NOT GAMES. Canvas was never meant for games. HTML5 games are slow on older computers while flash is ALOT faster. I can verify this because I have an old computer.

*This is based off of old information and cannot be totally trusted (I mean the HTML5 part, 90% of computers still have flash on them. And that figure won't change for awhile).

1. HTML5 is in itself still in development; and it's being developed particularly with interactive content in mind. Comparing it to Flash at this very moment isn't just. HTML5 faces the challenge that it's being implemented as a browser standard, as opposed to flash which is a downloaded addition. As the development of HTML5 continues, and the major browsers begin to better support HTML5 (hopefully all following the standard strictly) there's nothing stopping HTML5 games from competing with Flash - and being superior in the sense browsers will run them natively.

2. Every web development language I can think of can be written up in a basic text editor and then run. This has never stopped development tools such as Adobe's Dreamweaver for making websites. The reality is, people and companies are willing to invest in software - if the time saved using the software is worth significantly more than the software's one off cost. Obviously competing development tools are to be expected - and the end result is significantly improved tools. Game Maker HTML5 has only *just* been released, and is still in beta - the improvements they intend to make over the next few months and years will make it a fair rival to any other HTML5 tool. Thus starting the war of competing software trying to improve on each other.

3. I'm beginning to think people are just shouting this to feel part of the crowd. There's nothing wrong with the new skin, other than the fact it's not what Game Maker users are used to. If Game Maker had always been this colour, YoYo Games would be getting negative feedback on a new white theme. The fact Game Maker supports different skins now is a welcome addition, purely cosmetic, but additional control over software is very welcome.

4. I take strong offense to this. YoYo Games have done nothing but significantly improve Game Maker at a significantly faster rate than ever before. Any decisions they've made deemed negative by the community (Softwrap, Smiley Logo) have always been reversed. They're very attentive to the Game Maker community, opening forums and threads for feedback - which they often actually read and respond to. If you're so convinced YoYo Games are a negative for Game Maker, then try going back to using Game Maker 6.1a whilst YoYo Games starts releasing HTML5 updates, Studio and eventually does a complete re-write in C++.

Game Maker HTML5 is certainly worth buying if you're interested in HTML5 development, particularly if you're already familiar with Game Maker. If you've never used Game Maker before, then it might be worthwhile doing some research on your options first. One huge benefit Game Maker has here, is that now days many young aspiring Computer Scientists and IT professionals have their first programming experience with Game Maker. This means they're already perfectly comfortable with Game Maker before they even begin any professional work. Even today, I was blown away by how many fellow computer science students at my university started programming with Game Maker. If any companies did decide to begin looking for programmers familiar with Game Maker, then I guarantee there would be absolutely no shortage.