69 replies to this topic

[theg721]

Unlike my name which is... Rusty.

So, is that like your only name, like Teller or something?

Just to confirm, we have indeed been speaking with and involved with Indie Go.

And I thought YYG couldn't get worse.

[slam drago]

YoYo, did you read the demo e-zine? If you did I can't see why you are having a partnership with them.

[NakedPaulToast]

This is not a "partnership" like that which exists between Ford and Microsoft for their Sync feature, or between Google and HTC to get Android on handsets, it's some young people who are starting a GameMaker oriented project that they hope might become successful, pay for itself and maybe make a buck or two.

As Scotay explained, YYGs tossed them a bone, in order to support a GameMaker community effort.

The most embarrassing thing about this has been the behaviour of the GMC members.

Even sadder is how members are now deflecting attention away from their own bad behaviour, to YYGs.

Edited by NakedPaulToast, 19 September 2011 - 05:21 PM.

[True Valhalla]

Only a few days to go before it is published and if the internet version is free, you are gauranteed a MASSIVE first download due to all the people here wanting to see if all you have claimed in the first post is true!

I think you're over-selling it. Bad demo, 3 page thread with nothing particularly positive, and a price tag.

This will crash and burn.

Side note, I think it's great YoYo is getting behind this, despite any quality issues, etc.

Edited by True Valhalla, 20 September 2011 - 01:26 AM.

[slam drago]

This is not a "partnership" like that which exists between Ford and Microsoft for their Sync feature, or between Google and HTC to get Android on handsets, it's some young people who are starting a GameMaker oriented project that they hope might become successful, pay for itself and maybe make a buck or two.

As Scotay explained, YYGs tossed them a bone, in order to support a GameMaker community effort.

The most embarrassing thing about this has been the behaviour of the GMC members.

Even sadder is how members are now deflecting attention away from their own bad behaviour, to YYGs.

What behaviour are you talking about?
Please excuse my ignorance.

[Rusty]

This is not a "partnership" like that which exists between Ford and Microsoft for their Sync feature, or between Google and HTC to get Android on handsets, it's some young people who are starting a GameMaker oriented project that they hope might become successful, pay for itself and maybe make a buck or two.

Yes, we do understand that "IndieGo" will not be featured in GameMaker 9. Thanks for pointing that out, I was clearly lost and confused over that issue.

As Scotay explained, YYGs tossed them a bone, in order to support a GameMaker community effort.

I don't think that's quite what Scotay said... I know YYG can make bad decisions sometimes... and bad design decisions all the time... but I don't think they go round randomly throwing in with every project on the GMC.

The most embarrassing thing about this has been the behaviour of the GMC members.

So, not counting yourself as a GMC member as you don't use GameMaker (GM) and you just hang around to annoy the community © what bad behavior here have you witnessed that concerns you sir? Was it the questioning of a lacking plan, the obvious points made over payment or the bad reviews given to a bad demo?

Even sadder is how members are now deflecting attention away from their own bad behaviour, to YYGs.

Apart from a few who disagree that YYG should be involved with IndieGo everybody has been pretty supportive of the YYG on this forum but nobody has displayed outrageous behavior or blamed YYG. The problem is you neither take the time to read a topic or care, you just assume and reply. In a different time, on a different site, I would have beaten you to death with the ban hammer for trolling.

[Smarty]

What NPT concerns embarrassing is the suggestion in this thread that the OP would have lied about his affiliation with YoYo Games. That was indeed uncalled for. And when the statement was backed by Kirsty, YYG was criticized for supporting IndieGo. An apology to the OP would have been more appropriate.

That doesn't imply that he thinks you cannot vent criticism of the magazine itself. On the contrary, scrutiny and criticism are requirements if the authors wish their magazine to succeed.

I don't think that's quite what Scotay said... I know YYG can make bad decisions sometimes... and bad design decisions all the time... but I don't think they go round randomly throwing in with every project on the GMC.

It's not a random project - a magazine is a venture with a promise of prolonged continuity. Companies do very well by supporting efforts that help building a stronger community, without trying to referee the actual content and quality of it. That's something the community will take care of themselves, anyway.

Edited by Smarty, 20 September 2011 - 11:12 AM.

[Rusty]

It's not a random project - a magazine is a venture with a promise of prolonged continuity. Companies do very well by supporting efforts that help building a stronger community, without trying to referee the actual content and quality of it. That's something the community will take care of themselves, anyway.

That's exactly what I was saying. YYG didn't say "oh here is a shred of hope, go play in the garden". They supported IndieGo because it was a project they could get behind without having to do much that may benefit them, if not greatly. They're not in the running solely because it's a GameMaker project, that would be just bad business if they handed their company image to every guy on the GMC who said "I wanna start a project".

I don't believe the doubt was uncalled for after a statement from YYG Staff announced that he was "not aware" of any partnership, I do believe however that now it has been cleared up that should at least give the lad a chance and give him the constructive criticism that he needs to make an successful ezine. I don't think that blaming the GMC members and accusing us of blaming YYG for the ezine is constructive or helpful when nobody has actually attacked YYG in this topic, it's just NPT wanting to show us he's still around and still on a very high horse.

Edit:
Spelling.

Edited by Rusty, 20 September 2011 - 11:24 AM.

[RpGJuNki3]

when nobody has actually attacked YYG in this topic

The negativity in this thread is just shameful.
I swear...it seems like a few of you get a high off the bashing. Get off the computer and take a walk every now and then, I promise you with human interaction like this, you will get a drastically different reaction. Trusst

@rusty ....theg721 did
But honestly...don't now try & talk about "constructive crit" when you've done nothing but bash the project from the get.

- JuNki3

[Rusty]

when nobody has actually attacked YYG in this topic

The negativity in this thread is just shameful.
I swear...it seems like a few of you get a high off the bashing. Get off the computer and take a walk every now and then, I promise you with human interaction like this, you will get a drastically different reaction. Trusst

And if you venture out into the real world RpG and take a look around you everything that is built there is built upon layour upon layour of groundwork created by criticism. I do respect your drive to always do the right thing but the right thing isn't always the one that makes you look like the good guy. Would you pay for a ezine that had under quality writing, unclear design, unclear layout and a shaky partnership? As potential customers it's our right to question these things and if they are not up to commercial standard either go free until you have the experience to come back and do things right or take on the criticism given to you by the community and improve things.

@rusty ....theg721 did
But honestly...don't now try & talk about "constructive crit" when you've done nothing but bash the project from the get.

I didn't see Theg's comment so I apologize, one member did attack YYG for the ezine. The rest of the topic has been explaining what's wrong with the ezine and mostly the confusion over YYG partnership.

[RpGJuNki3]

And if you venture out into the real world RpG and take a look around you everything that is built there is built upon layour upon layour of groundwork created by criticism. I do respect your drive to always do the right thing but the right thing isn't always the one that makes you look like the good guy

I agree, yet disagree. Methodic Faith my friend and a positive attitude can go along way.

From the get, you made a strong assumption that he was lying. Now that it turns out you were clearly wrong, I believe any normal human being would feel the need to correct and apologize for the strong stance. But of course, you're not that type of person.
As well, even "real" honest criticism can be done in a positive constructive manner. But course you ppl are "GMC".. "please hear me roar!" and blindly with this never ending need to hear your own voices, you decide to pound away with little to no consideration for the OP. I wonder what "Scotay" must have felt reading the communities reaction? Probably the same distasteful thoughts I felt about the GMC It's sad that it has to be like this...but in end, there's no changing ppl that can't comprehend their own faults.

- JuNki3

[Nocturne]

As much as I enjoy all this armchair psychoanalysis, it's not really doing much to help the OP... an OP who, coincidentally, has not posted back in this topic. I wonder why not?

Now, other e-zines here have also suffered quite severe criticism (ask Bret Hudson!!!) but have managed to keep themselves afloat by listening (although not always heeding) to that criticism, and all the while the members of this community have given them the benefit of the doubt and suggested ways to improve... so why can't we offer the same courtesy to this e-zine and criticise with an open mind and suggest better ways make the venture worthwhile?

[NakedPaulToast]

There were also comments that have since been removed from the topic.

[Rusty]

Let's take a trip down memory road RpG, just the two of us:
After hearing the author expects payment from a website whose average member has no means of paying for a ezine, and either uses Lite or had a parent pay for GameMaker for them:

No, it's the sound of a failing business plan.

Most customers you'll receive will not have the means to pay for an online magazine and I'm sure as hell not going to bother putting in my payment details for 80p. Your logo looks unprofessional and your business plan for the magazine doesn't even think about what customers you're trying to attract.

After the author refused to confront any actual issues brought up with the original plan:

No, it's the sound of a failing business plan.

Most customers you'll receive will not have the means to pay for an online magazine and I'm sure as hell not going to bother putting in my payment details for 80p. Your logo looks unprofessional and your business plan for the magazine doesn't even think about what customers you're trying to attract.

After Nocturne started picking faults with a dodgy preview:

Mark, if you didn't realize there was nothing Indie related either, just half a mag's worth of random images and content thrown into a mock up file.

After a statement from Sandy stating he knew nothing of the ezine or any partnerships with it:

Now we're adding lying about partnerships... that's the last shred of believe I had in this project being a success gone. I know you mean well but please go back to the drawing board, rethink your course of action, rethink your presentation and rethink your business plan and return later with more solid groundwork.

You weren't ready to post this. <<< Just for you RpG I put this in bold as it does not say "YOU CANNOT MAKE A EZINE".

After an extremely harsh comment from Bee stating the author is a liar and the topic should be closed:

There is a difference between lies and plans Bee, he may have planned to have a partnership with YoYo but not have actually secured one. Come on Bee, we're on the same forums and we all know how many people here get ahead of themselves and post things that just aren't ready to be posted.

After a stupid argument made by blackmoon indicating that nobody else could have his name:

Through indie gaming alone I know 4 Kevins, a James Young, a Jeff Young and a Henry Young. This may surprise you but both "Kevin" and "Young" are pretty common names, also there is the athlete "Kevin Young", famous Desperate Housewives villian, "Paul Young" and about a million oriental people called either "Young", "Yung" or "Yun" which can all be misspelt "Young" if only heard and not read. Unlike my name which is... Rusty.

Magazine, still bad. Kevin Young argument, ridiculous. Rusty watching Desperate Housewives, shameful yet true.

After the confusion was settled by Scotay. NOT THE AUTHOR who did nothing to confront any problem raised in this topic:

With the YoYo Partnership confusion cleared up, all we have left is:
- Unprofessional Logo (Which is NOT okay if you want people to pay for something)
- Payment Problems
- Unclear Target Audience
- Unclear Layout
- Unclear Design
- Apparently intolerable articles...

All I need is a decent answer the the above problems to convince me that this is something worth spending the time of day reading through and hey, I might read it.

And don't tell me that the logo isn't important, it's the most important part when starting a magazine as it's a presentation for your entire series that, like it or not, you'll be stuck with.

And then NPT decided to join in. At what point should I apologize RpG? Is it the point where instead of coming in and solving things himself he decided to leave it and let doubt rise or the point where you came in with shining white armour unable to see the ground below you and demanded I should? I've done more to keep this magazine's image than the author. Chance has done more to keep this magazine's image than the author. Meta Black Yoshi has done more to keep this magazine's image than the author and he most likely doesn't even know the topic exists.

As I said before RpG, I respect your attitude to do the right thing, but you should really look back, if not just for a second and see what you're defending and who you're defending it against. Because at any point the author could have came in and ended the unanswered questions and turned the tide, but he decided not too.

Edit:
Oh NPT, if only that were true you might have a valid argument.

Edited by Rusty, 20 September 2011 - 12:45 PM.

[NakedPaulToast]

Edit:
Oh NPT, if only that were true you might have a valid argument.

That is true.

For example, after Scotay posted, one member quoted her post, and attacked her credibility because she was an "admin of the forums with only 26 posts".

It was there, I saw it and the post was removed. But go, on keep calling me a liar. Perhaps the Mod who removed the posts could verify it.

[Nocturne]

Okay! Rusty, +1. Well done, good points, discussion over please... if you have any further bones to pick with RPG then please do it over PM... lets leave this topic to either die, or discuss the actual e-zine and not our attitude towards it. And NPT there has only been ONE post removed by a moderator in the whole topic that I am aware of.

[NakedPaulToast]

Okay! Rusty, +1. Well done, good points, discussion over please... if you have any further bones to pick with RPG then please do it over PM... lets leave this topic to either die, or discuss the actual e-zine and not our attitude towards it. And NPT there has only been ONE post removed by a moderator in the whole topic that I am aware of.

The point is not how many posts were removed, the point is I made the statement that comments were removed. Rusty called me a liar.

So you saw he was accusing me of lying and you knew I was correct , you still congratulate him. Very classy Nocturne.

Edited by NakedPaulToast, 20 September 2011 - 01:12 PM.

[Rusty]

Okay! Rusty, +1. Well done, good points, discussion over please... if you have any further bones to pick with RPG then please do it over PM... lets leave this topic to either die, or discuss the actual e-zine and not our attitude towards it. And NPT there has only been ONE post removed by a moderator in the whole topic that I am aware of.

The point is not how many posts were removed, the point is I made the statement that comments were removed. Rusty called me a liar.

So you saw he was accusing me of lying and you knew I was correct , you still congratulate him. Very classy Nocturne.

You were right, I apologize, around 3 comments concerning Scotay's post count were removed, they were just too trivial for me to notice. I do apologize for that NPT.

Edit:
Looked over the topic three posts were removed, one from blackmoon saying Scotay had 25 posts, one from me stating it was stupid to point it out and one from blackmoon apologizing to Scotay.

Edited by Rusty, 20 September 2011 - 01:15 PM.

[Nocturne]

Nice one NPT! Well done! +1!
I +1'd Rustys post for two reasons - One, that what he said was backed up by quotes and was well explained as well as being perfectly correct. He was being maligned for something he did not do... and two, because I wanted to end this childish discussion that has nothing to do with the topic at hand and hoped that by trying to be supportive as well as positive that we just might get back on topic. SO WHAT if Rusty added an edit about you? Are you so damn egotistical that you think the only reason that I +1'd him is because of that one line in his huge post? Do you honestly think that I was congratulating him for calling you a liar? Please.... your "holier-than-thou" attitude really is getting beyond a joke. And if this means that I have no class then I am happy to be a poor pleb in your eyes...

[NakedPaulToast]

Let's put this in perspective, Nocturne. It's not about being holier than though. It was about being called a liar.

Would it have been appropriate for me to call you a liar when you stated that only ONE post was removed to your knowledge? No, it would not have been. I believed you to be incorrect, and it appears you were.

Rusty calling me a liar was completely inappropriate. That kind of inappropriate comment should never be praised by people of authority, no matter how compelling the rest of their points are.