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#51 RpGJuNki3

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 12:14 PM

And if you venture out into the real world RpG and take a look around you everything that is built there is built upon layour upon layour of groundwork created by criticism. I do respect your drive to always do the right thing but the right thing isn't always the one that makes you look like the good guy


I agree, yet disagree. Methodic Faith my friend and a positive attitude can go along way.

From the get, you made a strong assumption that he was lying. Now that it turns out you were clearly wrong, I believe any normal human being would feel the need to correct and apologize for the strong stance. But of course, you're not that type of person.
As well, even "real" honest criticism can be done in a positive constructive manner. But course you ppl are "GMC".. "please hear me roar!" and blindly with this never ending need to hear your own voices, you decide to pound away with little to no consideration for the OP. I wonder what "Scotay" must have felt reading the communities reaction? Probably the same distasteful thoughts I felt about the GMC -_- It's sad that it has to be like this...but in end, there's no changing ppl that can't comprehend their own faults.

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#52 Nocturne

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 12:24 PM

As much as I enjoy all this armchair psychoanalysis, it's not really doing much to help the OP... an OP who, coincidentally, has not posted back in this topic. I wonder why not? Posted Image

Now, other e-zines here have also suffered quite severe criticism (ask Bret Hudson!!!) but have managed to keep themselves afloat by listening (although not always heeding) to that criticism, and all the while the members of this community have given them the benefit of the doubt and suggested ways to improve... so why can't we offer the same courtesy to this e-zine and criticise with an open mind and suggest better ways make the venture worthwhile?
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#53 NakedPaulToast

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 12:26 PM

There were also comments that have since been removed from the topic.
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#54 Rusty

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 12:42 PM

Let's take a trip down memory road RpG, just the two of us:
After hearing the author expects payment from a website whose average member has no means of paying for a ezine, and either uses Lite or had a parent pay for GameMaker for them:

No, it's the sound of a failing business plan.

Most customers you'll receive will not have the means to pay for an online magazine and I'm sure as hell not going to bother putting in my payment details for 80p. Your logo looks unprofessional and your business plan for the magazine doesn't even think about what customers you're trying to attract.


After the author refused to confront any actual issues brought up with the original plan:

No, it's the sound of a failing business plan.

Most customers you'll receive will not have the means to pay for an online magazine and I'm sure as hell not going to bother putting in my payment details for 80p. Your logo looks unprofessional and your business plan for the magazine doesn't even think about what customers you're trying to attract.


After Nocturne started picking faults with a dodgy preview:

Mark, if you didn't realize there was nothing Indie related either, just half a mag's worth of random images and content thrown into a mock up file. ;)


After a statement from Sandy stating he knew nothing of the ezine or any partnerships with it:

Now we're adding lying about partnerships... that's the last shred of believe I had in this project being a success gone. I know you mean well but please go back to the drawing board, rethink your course of action, rethink your presentation and rethink your business plan and return later with more solid groundwork.

You weren't ready to post this. <<< Just for you RpG I put this in bold as it does not say "YOU CANNOT MAKE A EZINE". ;)


After an extremely harsh comment from Bee stating the author is a liar and the topic should be closed:

There is a difference between lies and plans Bee, he may have planned to have a partnership with YoYo but not have actually secured one. Come on Bee, we're on the same forums and we all know how many people here get ahead of themselves and post things that just aren't ready to be posted.


After a stupid argument made by blackmoon indicating that nobody else could have his name:

Through indie gaming alone I know 4 Kevins, a James Young, a Jeff Young and a Henry Young. This may surprise you but both "Kevin" and "Young" are pretty common names, also there is the athlete "Kevin Young", famous Desperate Housewives villian, "Paul Young" and about a million oriental people called either "Young", "Yung" or "Yun" which can all be misspelt "Young" if only heard and not read. Unlike my name which is... Rusty.

Magazine, still bad. Kevin Young argument, ridiculous. Rusty watching Desperate Housewives, shameful yet true.


After the confusion was settled by Scotay. NOT THE AUTHOR who did nothing to confront any problem raised in this topic:

With the YoYo Partnership confusion cleared up, all we have left is:
- Unprofessional Logo (Which is NOT okay if you want people to pay for something)
- Payment Problems
- Unclear Target Audience
- Unclear Layout
- Unclear Design
- Apparently intolerable articles...

All I need is a decent answer the the above problems to convince me that this is something worth spending the time of day reading through and hey, I might read it.

And don't tell me that the logo isn't important, it's the most important part when starting a magazine as it's a presentation for your entire series that, like it or not, you'll be stuck with.


And then NPT decided to join in. At what point should I apologize RpG? Is it the point where instead of coming in and solving things himself he decided to leave it and let doubt rise or the point where you came in with shining white armour unable to see the ground below you and demanded I should? I've done more to keep this magazine's image than the author. Chance has done more to keep this magazine's image than the author. Meta Black Yoshi has done more to keep this magazine's image than the author and he most likely doesn't even know the topic exists.

As I said before RpG, I respect your attitude to do the right thing, but you should really look back, if not just for a second and see what you're defending and who you're defending it against. Because at any point the author could have came in and ended the unanswered questions and turned the tide, but he decided not too.

Edit:
Oh NPT, if only that were true you might have a valid argument.

Edited by Rusty, 20 September 2011 - 12:45 PM.

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#55 NakedPaulToast

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 12:58 PM

Edit:
Oh NPT, if only that were true you might have a valid argument.


That is true.

For example, after Scotay posted, one member quoted her post, and attacked her credibility because she was an "admin of the forums with only 26 posts".

It was there, I saw it and the post was removed. But go, on keep calling me a liar. Perhaps the Mod who removed the posts could verify it.
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#56 Nocturne

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 01:01 PM

Okay! Rusty, +1. Well done, good points, discussion over please... if you have any further bones to pick with RPG then please do it over PM... lets leave this topic to either die, or discuss the actual e-zine and not our attitude towards it. And NPT there has only been ONE post removed by a moderator in the whole topic that I am aware of.
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#57 NakedPaulToast

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 01:11 PM

Okay! Rusty, +1. Well done, good points, discussion over please... if you have any further bones to pick with RPG then please do it over PM... lets leave this topic to either die, or discuss the actual e-zine and not our attitude towards it. And NPT there has only been ONE post removed by a moderator in the whole topic that I am aware of.


The point is not how many posts were removed, the point is I made the statement that comments were removed. Rusty called me a liar.

So you saw he was accusing me of lying and you knew I was correct , you still congratulate him. Very classy Nocturne.

Edited by NakedPaulToast, 20 September 2011 - 01:12 PM.

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#58 Rusty

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 01:14 PM


Okay! Rusty, +1. Well done, good points, discussion over please... if you have any further bones to pick with RPG then please do it over PM... lets leave this topic to either die, or discuss the actual e-zine and not our attitude towards it. And NPT there has only been ONE post removed by a moderator in the whole topic that I am aware of.


The point is not how many posts were removed, the point is I made the statement that comments were removed. Rusty called me a liar.

So you saw he was accusing me of lying and you knew I was correct , you still congratulate him. Very classy Nocturne.

You were right, I apologize, around 3 comments concerning Scotay's post count were removed, they were just too trivial for me to notice. I do apologize for that NPT.

Edit:
Looked over the topic three posts were removed, one from blackmoon saying Scotay had 25 posts, one from me stating it was stupid to point it out and one from blackmoon apologizing to Scotay.

Edited by Rusty, 20 September 2011 - 01:15 PM.

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#59 Nocturne

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 01:28 PM

Nice one NPT! Well done! +1!
I +1'd Rustys post for two reasons - One, that what he said was backed up by quotes and was well explained as well as being perfectly correct. He was being maligned for something he did not do... and two, because I wanted to end this childish discussion that has nothing to do with the topic at hand and hoped that by trying to be supportive as well as positive that we just might get back on topic. SO WHAT if Rusty added an edit about you? Are you so damn egotistical that you think the only reason that I +1'd him is because of that one line in his huge post? Do you honestly think that I was congratulating him for calling you a liar? Please.... your "holier-than-thou" attitude really is getting beyond a joke. And if this means that I have no class then I am happy to be a poor pleb in your eyes...
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#60 NakedPaulToast

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 01:43 PM

Let's put this in perspective, Nocturne. It's not about being holier than though. It was about being called a liar.

Would it have been appropriate for me to call you a liar when you stated that only ONE post was removed to your knowledge? No, it would not have been. I believed you to be incorrect, and it appears you were.

Rusty calling me a liar was completely inappropriate. That kind of inappropriate comment should never be praised by people of authority, no matter how compelling the rest of their points are.
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#61 Rusty

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 01:52 PM

Let's put this in perspective, Nocturne. It's not about being holier than though. It was about being called a liar.

Would it have been appropriate for me to call you a liar when you stated that only ONE post was removed to your knowledge? No, it would not have been. I believed you to be incorrect, and it appears you were.

Rusty calling me a liar was completely inappropriate. That kind of inappropriate comment should never be praised by people of authority, no matter how compelling the rest of their points are.

I never branded you a liar, I said it wasn't true that any comments had been removed. I didn't say that you were a liar because it's an easy mistake to make, as I myself made the mistake of overlooking the missing comments, which still had no validation in the conversation.

If I was attacking you in anyway incorrectly or without reason I'm sure Mark would have been quick to put me back in line. I never attacked you in that post NPT, and I never branded you a liar.
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#62 Nocturne

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 02:00 PM

But I wasn't praising his comment. I was praising his post AS A WHOLE. And to be honest, I never even noticed that edit while I was posting as I was too busy trying to defuse the situation and get the topic back on track. Terrible, isn't it? Me not noticing, I mean... Oh the shame! You have exaggerated and made the issue about YOU when it wasn't. Oh, and insinuating that I am classless when you have a signature that is a backhanded insult to another user is a bit rich, don't you think?

PS: And yes, I know that I am now doing the very same thing that I was saying not to do in my previous posts. I apologise and shall no longer participate in further off-topic bickering... I shall also report this topic to other mods to do with as they see fit, as if I close it someone will surely report me...
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#63 RpGJuNki3

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 02:07 PM

I think "all" that up there, grants me +1 quick reply to rusty lol...x)

@rusty: I loved how you left out that one post? x)

Look, my thought was based off of my observation of your "attitude" and the manor you went at the OP, which to me looked liked foul ball. It seemed more like you were in such dire need to catch the OP slipping, without consideration for what may possibly be truth.
But hey, if that honestly wasn't the case and you had nothing but good intentions, then I retract my previous statement. all love kid ;) But please understand. There's psychological game to every forum. Members thoughts are swayed by others. If you spit positive, you'd be surprised at the flow of posts.

Psychoanalyzing all day baby! I'm out x)

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#64 NakedPaulToast

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 03:30 PM

But I wasn't praising his comment. I was praising his post AS A WHOLE. And to be honest, I never even noticed that edit while I was posting as I was too busy trying to defuse the situation and get the topic back on track. Terrible, isn't it? Me not noticing, I mean... Oh the shame! You have exaggerated and made the issue about YOU when it wasn't. Oh, and insinuating that I am classless when you have a signature that is a backhanded insult to another user is a bit rich, don't you think?

PS: And yes, I know that I am now doing the very same thing that I was saying not to do in my previous posts. I apologise and shall no longer participate in further off-topic bickering... I shall also report this topic to other mods to do with as they see fit, as if I close it someone will surely report me...


Why would you ask me a direct question and then state you will no longer participate?

And for what it's worth, taking one last shot and then claiming you will no longer participate is also classless, don't you think?
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#65 chance

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 03:32 PM

Having succeeded in beating their horse to death, the still hungry GMC members then turned on each other.... :tongue:
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#66 Smarty

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 03:32 PM

I never branded you a liar, I said it wasn't true that any comments had been removed. I didn't say that you were a liar because it's an easy mistake to make, as I myself made the mistake of overlooking the missing comments,

No, that's not the issue. Sure, it's easy to overlook that some comment have been removed. But this wasn't about overlooking something. This was you saying that something NPT said, didn't happen. You may not have explicitly stated that NPT is a liar, but you implictly, intentionally or not, called his integrity into question by implying the comments he referred to, one of which added to his argument, simply didn't exist. And yes, that very much feels like being called a liar.
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#67 NakedPaulToast

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 03:37 PM

Having succeeded in beating their horse to death, the still hungry GMC members then turned on each other....

I'm kinda thinking that this topic turned ugly back around the time people were making comments like this.


Just wondering how you guys say you've partnered with YoYo when Sandy Duncan just said he's unaware of any partnership. He said this through Twitter.

Isn't this enough reason to REMOVE this topic, so the author doesn't receive more attention from his false statements?
Leaving it here just generates more website hits and ad revenue for him.

.


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#68 chance

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 03:44 PM

I'm kinda thinking that this topic turned ugly back around the time people were making comments like this.



Just wondering how you guys say you've partnered with YoYo when Sandy Duncan just said he's unaware of any partnership. He said this through Twitter.

Isn't this enough reason to REMOVE this topic, so the author doesn't receive more attention from his false statements?
Leaving it here just generates more website hits and ad revenue for him.

I agree. It did. But I quickly acknowledged my mistake after Nocturne posted another Sandy post that suggested YoYo may be involved after all.

However, I accept part of the blame for this misunderstanding, and subsequent rush to judgement.
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#69 ugriffin

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 05:08 PM

Please don't make me clean up this topic guys. Cut the argument out.

Now, for some clearing up:

Just wondering how you guys say you've partnered with YoYo when Sandy Duncan just said he's unaware of any partnership. He said this through Twitter.


This post's intention was to ask the OP why they were saying they had partnered with YoYo, because Sandy had said he wasn't aware of anything. That was not an insult against the OP, it was a question. The fact that Rusty and Chance took the opportunity to cry foul against the project wasn't my intention. This is why I didn't close the topic, to give the OP a chance to explain the whole deal.

EDIT: ah, people locked the topic while I was writing this! Meh. :'(
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#70 Mnementh

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 05:22 PM

There will be a new topic on the 22nd, when the magazine is officially released.
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