65 replies to this topic

[BorisE]

Interesting...

In the rush to make Gamemaker "Serious Business" please try not to forget where it started. I'm a bit concerned about the possible fragmentation of the Gamemaker user community, with the schism between free and commercial games being the obvious issue but treatment of "lite" users also being a concern.

I'd draw a comparison with the electronic CAD field where products that started out for the hobyist try to go commercial but the products don't compete with the existing big players. I'm guessing in this field that would be Adobe Flash?

Provided that admin fees don't wipe it out there's probably a case for a "registered lite" license that just knocks off the watermark but still only allows the basic feature set. Most of Water Panic would run under "Lite" and in fact I was always suprised how little was restricted under 5.3. With later versions the restriction is greater but even so "Lite" appears a capable platform.

A tool to indicate if "Standard" features have been used in a game would be usefull. If I publish an example I'd like to know if its Lite-compatible or not?

Please try to maintain some degree of game portability between similar versions. I've just upgraded from 8.0 to 8.1 primarily for the d3d_ambient_lite command and I find I now have another file extension to contend with. Version ratcheting can be a serious pain, though if you must do it then I suppose changing the extension is better than silently changing a file.

Please try to deal with the fragmentation of the yoyogames website. There's a whole second forum that was probably meant to be the "official" forum I guess. It look a bit spammy and neglected now so I presume GMC is the de-facto official channel again.

I've been out of the loop about five years doing other stuff (cornering the market in virtual beachballs in IMVU chat) and I'm curious what platforms I can develop for now?

[Rani_sputnik]

...and I'm curious what platforms I can develop for now?

Do you mean at this very minute or in the coming year?

At the moment;
Windows with regular GM
Mac with GM4MAC
iOS/Android is in house
HTML5 is becoming a platform

In the next year
Windows (regular GM, GM4HTML5 and Studio)
Mac (GM4MAC and Studio) it's still if you can compile a file to run on a mac outside of a browser with GM4HTML5.
HTML5 (GM4HTML5 and Studio)
iOS/Android (GM Studio only)

It sounds like studio's platforms will constantly be extended too.

EDIT: Oh and I guess I better respond to this

Guys, don't get your hopes up on the timing thing. I can't say [companies in general can predict] when things will be released.

(I don't know how to put it in the heading but this is my quote, I'm quite a bit of a luddite)
They don't want to disappoint us, so they wont promise you anything that has even the slightest chance of not going ahead.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiight. Do you know how hateful this community is? Anything they do will disappoint some of us, and they know it.

Did I say anything about them not knowing they will disappoint us? Look around bud, unfortunately the whole world is like this community, any decision will disappoint someone. In fact what I was saying was that companies in general will never publish anything that is not true, which is why they have to be careful in what they share and what they don't because if it shakes out that it doesn't happen, they come off as liars. :D
Hopefully I don't seem quite so naive anymore.
Woot!

Edited by Rani_sputnik, 20 September 2011 - 08:27 AM.

[BorisE]

...and I'm curious what platforms I can develop for now?

At the moment;
Windows with regular GM
Mac with GM4MAC
iOS/Android is in house
HTML5 is becoming a platform

Yeah that's about it.

If I can get the HTML5 version at the beta price I'll probably go for it.

[icuurd12b42]

Please try to maintain some degree of game portability between similar versions. I've just upgraded from 8.0 to 8.1 primarily for the d3d_ambient_lite command and I find I now have another file extension to contend with. Version ratcheting can be a serious pain, though if you must do it then I suppose changing the extension is better than silently changing a file.

We have enough trouble with GM7 trying and failing to load gm8 GMK files as it is. We pushed very hard for the GM devs to make sure that does not happen ever again.

I personally deal with File is corrupt error 10 times a day. I use GM7 and have to make darn sure GM8 does not suddenly become my default opener for the file. I already almost lost a big GM7 project because of that. GM8 and 7 being so similar looking, one moment of intention and you've loaded a gm7 project in gm8 and saved it as gm8.

[Rani_sputnik]

http://yoyogames.com/gamemaker/windows Free version is at the top of that page on the right, "Download GM8.1 LITE"

[BorisE]

We have enough trouble with GM7 trying and failing to load gm8 GMK files as it is. We pushed very hard for the GM devs to make sure that does not happen ever again.

I personally deal with File is corrupt error 10 times a day. I use GM7 and have to make darn sure GM8 does not suddenly become my default opener for the file. I already almost lost a big GM7 project because of that. GM8 and 7 being so similar looking, one moment of intention and you've loaded a gm7 project in gm8 and saved it as gm8.

Please don't misunderstand me, what I would like to see is a common file format, and attempting to load a game for a newer version in an older version just either

1: Indicate that the file was from a newer version and might contain unsupported commands, leaving it to the user to fix

or better still

2: Parse it and give warnings whenever an unsupported command is found.

or

3: Allow saving in older formats. Even Microsoft support that.

[ash]

im disgusted at the prices and direction youve gone. GameMaker is not what it used to be and the involvement of yoyogames as a corporate structure has pushed me away. I cannot believe what has happened to a great program and a great community. Its sad and Ihope someday that GameMaker returns to its former glory as an affordable open platform for creative development. I loved this program and the community, but this is the last straw, with tiers of highly paid upgrades and new features marketed as gimmicks.

GM used to be about creativity, now its just another product, and one I cant stand behind anymore.

[NakedPaulToast]

im disgusted at the prices and direction youve gone. GameMaker is not what it used to be and the involvement of yoyogames as a corporate structure has pushed me away. I cannot believe what has happened to a great program and a great community. Its sad and Ihope someday that GameMaker returns to its former glory as an affordable open platform for creative development. I loved this program and the community, but this is the last straw, with tiers of highly paid upgrades and new features marketed as gimmicks.

GM used to be about creativity, now its just another product, and one I cant stand behind anymore.

Good, see you later.

You don't speak for the rest of the community. And judging by the positive response to GM:HTML5 and the anticipation of Studio a lot of people like the direction YYGs is going.

[Desert Dog]

im disgusted at the prices and direction youve gone. GameMaker is not what it used to be and the involvement of yoyogames as a corporate structure has pushed me away. I cannot believe what has happened to a great program and a great community. Its sad and Ihope someday that GameMaker returns to its former glory as an affordable open platform for creative development. I loved this program and the community, but this is the last straw, with tiers of highly paid upgrades and new features marketed as gimmicks.

GM used to be about creativity, now its just another product, and one I cant stand behind anymore.

I'm a bit perplexed. GM8.1 lite is actually more functional than GM8/7/6/5 lite, as it has image rotation supported. It's still free to use by anyone.

What's happening is we're getting more platforms to develop for (Mac, Web, and hopefully soon iOS). This is what the community want. This comes with a price, people are putting in long hours getting these programs up&running.

There is a saying, you can't have your cake and eat it. Funnily enough, Yoyogames actually manages to do it. GM lite is still free, it's still very functional, and GM standard is still very affordable.

It's also got other products coming up which GM users can expand to. Yes, they are priced higher. What do you expect? Work costs money.

Isn't this win-win all around?

[BorisE]

There is a saying, you can't have your cake and eat it. Funnily enough, Yoyogames actually manages to do it. GM lite is still free, it's still very functional, and GM standard is still very affordable.

Before I shoot my mouth off about something I don't know can you tell me if exe creation was taken away in GM8.1? If it was then I think it is a bad decision, I do not believe that "Lite" usage detracts from registrations in the long term. Don't think of it as giving away expensive work for free, think of it as "bait". I'd be more offended that someone on the Yoyo payroll wasted time making that decision. A better idea might be to give away a little bit more, like maybe enough of the D3D interface to set a basic camera and draw walls. Enough that someone can write a crude FPS maybe, but hey if they registered they could add stuff like lighting, shapes, or even just floor and a ceiling instead of blank room background.

FWIW can you really grumble about the switch from $25 to $40? its been $25 for an awfully long time?

HTML5 is an oddball right now, I can see it having the potential to be very big, annoyingly Microsoft only allow XP to update to IE8 and there's still a lot of Win XP out there but for everything newer the "runs in your browser with no plugin required" thing is awesome. If it breaks over into more general web design then $199 may be cheap, however if it just remains another flavour of gamemaker then $79 is dear. Personally I'd like to see it stay at the $99 mark and hopefully retain a "Indie" developer culture for a bit longer.

[NakedPaulToast]

Before I shoot my mouth off about something I don't know can you tell me if exe creation was taken away in GM8.1?

It wasn't.

[Desert Dog]

Before I shoot my mouth off about something I don't know can you tell me if exe creation was taken away in GM8.1? If it was then I think it is a bad decision, I do not believe that "Lite" usage detracts from registrations in the long term. Don't think of it as giving away expensive work for free, think of it as "bait". I'd be more offended that someone on the Yoyo payroll wasted time making that decision. A better idea might be to give away a little bit more, like maybe enough of the D3D interface to set a basic camera and draw walls. Enough that someone can write a crude FPS maybe, but hey if they registered they could add stuff like lighting, shapes, or even just floor and a ceiling instead of blank room background.

FWIW can you really grumble about the switch from $25 to $40? its been $25 for an awfully long time?

HTML5 is an oddball right now, I can see it having the potential to be very big, annoyingly Microsoft only allow XP to update to IE8 and there's still a lot of Win XP out there but for everything newer the "runs in your browser with no plugin required" thing is awesome. If it breaks over into more general web design then $199 may be cheap, however if it just remains another flavour of gamemaker then $79 is dear. Personally I'd like to see it stay at the $99 mark and hopefully retain a "Indie" developer culture for a bit longer.

(ditto NPT)
From my position it's hard to grumble.
GM8.1 lite does have a watermark on it's .exe's. A 32x32 (I think) icon which you can position around the screen. I personally wasn't a fan, and there were a few people who were upset about that decision.

For those who talk about 'yoyogames corporate structure' they actually had a topic here, to discuss it, and we pooh-hooed the .exe removal, and the watermark was nominated as an acceptable alternative.

They did give away a little more. The new features they'd worked on for the room editor (zoom, etc) and sprite rotation.. always a big one for beginners (space ships, race cars, bullets.. image_angle has thwarted lite users for years!).

$25-$40... sure, that jump may be a bit upsetting. But look at it from this way from me. I bought GM7, got a free update to GM8 (because I brought it x time amount from GM8 release) and then from there, got a free update to GM8.1.

Also, GM8.1 has an autoupdater, we have people actively working on squashing any bugs. This is the same with GM4Mac(and GM HTML5). They kinda juggle their time between them.

$25 was a steal when Mark was running it(and when YYG's took over). Now we've got a lot more than 'just Mark', working on GM continuously, if the bugtracker is anything to go by, and the price has gone up. Upsetting? Maybe, but I wouldn't call it corporate greed, it's virtually necessary. The sales of GM have actually increased since the price increase, IIRC, so something's gone right somewhere.

I guess as a 'new user' the $40 price tag, and the $200 for HTM5 when it's released, are pretty hefty, but as a current GM user, I think YYG's priorities are right on for me. Explanding&improving GM, which actually helps GM users, who have forked out their cash, rather than just trying to get 'more sales' by having GM priced cheaply.

(I'd agree that at $99, GMHTML5 would surely blow away all opposition, but... it's just speculation at this point!)
(I'm win xp, never liked IE. Use Chrome. And dang, this was a long post!)

[round]

Before I shoot my mouth off about something I don't know can you tell me if exe creation was taken away in GM8.1?

It wasn't.

Hi, but there should be some watermarks in EXE game made with GameMaker 8.1 Lite.

[NakedPaulToast]

Before I shoot my mouth off about something I don't know can you tell me if exe creation was taken away in GM8.1?

It wasn't.

Hi, but there should be some watermarks in EXE game made with GameMaker 8.1 Lite.

There are.

[Desert Dog]

Before I shoot my mouth off about something I don't know can you tell me if exe creation was taken away in GM8.1?

It wasn't.

Hi, but there should be some watermarks in EXE game made with GameMaker 8.1 Lite.

There are.

The sky is falling?

[BorisE]

I guess as a 'new user' the $40 price tag, and the $200 for HTM5 when it's released, are pretty hefty, but as a current GM user, I think YYG's priorities are right on for me. Explanding&improving GM, which actually helps GM users, who have forked out their cash, rather than just trying to get 'more sales' by having GM priced cheaply.

(I'd agree that at $99, GMHTML5 would surely blow away all opposition, but... it's just speculation at this point!)
(I'm win xp, never liked IE. Use Chrome. And dang, this was a long post!)

The thing to remember about GM HTML5 is that whatever the long term plan the current market segment is inevitably going to be existing gamemaker users. This is a good thing, at least in the short term, but the drawback is that its a segment that are going to be resistant to shelling out $199, whereas at the beta price its probably bordering on a must-have.

[faissialoo]

I am not sure if this is the right place but...
If i upgrade from 8.1 will i get a free update to 8.x std if i have 8.1 std(which i have)?
Also i think 8.1 sales went up cus people want it before it goes up too much(which it wont, i hope)

Edited by faissialoo, 04 October 2011 - 02:15 PM.

[Nocturne]

I am not sure if this is the right place but...
If i upgrade from 8.1 will i get a free update to 8.x std if i have 8.1 std(which i have)?
Also i think 8.1 sales went up cus people want it before it goes up too much(which it wont, i hope)

I wouldn't bet on their being an 8.x after 8.1... I think the plan is to go onto GM Studio and then make the jump to GM9. I would also highly doubt that there will be a free upgrade to 9 due to the fact that Mike and the crew at Yoyo have made it clear that GM9 will be a COMPLETE rewrite of GM from the ground up, and as such it is going to be practically a new product. I wouldn't rule out a minor discount on the final price however as that's how many other business do it (Adobe, for example)...

[faissialoo]

Dang, should have waited! unless 8.1 is compatible with 9 then i am XD

[ash]

maybe disgusted is a strong word, I just see Game Maker Anything listed at $100, and I dont think GM should ever have been that kind of product, with multiple tiers of you can make a better game, if you spend more money. I think GM was a lot better before yoyogames, when it was a private academic project by Mark.