35 replies to this topic

[Revel]

Let's discuss ideas on why YYG is rolling out buggy Game Maker versions, and alternatives on what they could be doing.

Why don't they keep an "unstable" build and a "stable" build like most developers do? I mean, after all YYG is a professional company right? Or so I've been told.

Some people can't even get the "goodness" of GM8.1, or any new version because new features will come with bugs, or at least other features that have been broken or bugged.


Sarcasm aside, my proposal:

Keep a stable version of GM, and stable updates are pushed to the public.
An "unstable" version would always be updated to the latest build, as unstable builds (aka all the current builds that are being pushed) would be pushed to this version.
People using this version would be getting the latest features, at the risk of having a slightly buggier version. Their feedback would affect the stable versions that are pushed publicly.


Any ideas?


inb4 GM is not buggy

Plenty of topics have been created with regards to GM bugs and changes.
Many people are still using GM8 including myself. 8.1 doesn't even run on my computer.

[9_6]

Well gm8.1 would be the "unstable" and gm8.0 the stable version so there's that.

[Arial]

Why is YYG rolling out buggy versions?

To stop pircay.

If you go to ceratin crack sites you will see how angry they are on yoyogames. It takes them a month to crack a gm version and when they are finished another is out.

Thums + up if you are also against gm crackers.

Edited by Arial, 25 July 2011 - 10:12 PM.

[SenJe0]

@ Arial, that's cool...I hope a Mod does not close this topic, they always close topics when they realise they are being criticised...

[Rani_sputnik]

gm 8.1.113 is stable.

I agree though, anyone who is not on this community could seriously be affected by the update scheme. Mike knows of the issue though, it's a shame it hasn't been implemented yet but such is life.
Also you say gm8.1 doesn't even run on your computer. Have you reported the issue and been specific about what your rig is?

[Desert Dog]

I've been pretty happy in general, actually, updates generally are coming with fixes that I want, and I haven't had a version yet that's *stopped work*.. but I did skip a few versions (they come pretty quickly!)

I've actually worked on 3 projects, one of which is 3d, finished 2 of them, and finishing up the 3rd in GM8.1. No issues what so ever, so I admit I'm a bit... I dunno. Clearly have a different perspective from someone who can't run GM8.1.

I do think a 'revert to previous version' button would be handy.

As for 'why' they are rolling out buggy versions, well, new features need testing, and hey, extensively testing things themselves is such a 'waste of time' when they realistically can't find everything. The community is doing a pretty good job bug-finding for Mike.

An alternate question could be 'why would YYG's wait 2-3 years before releasing a new version of GM'. When you look at what is happening now, hey, I've got nothing to complain about.

Many people are still using GM8 including myself. 8.1 doesn't even run on my computer.

You may have set yourself up for a bit of jibbing regarding what terrible GM8.1 bug updates effected you.

[9_6]

Thums + up if you are also against gm crackers.

Pardon me sir but the youtube channels are the other way.

Edited by 9_6, 21 July 2011 - 01:40 PM.

[FredFredrickson]

I hope a Mod does not close this topic, they always close topics when they realise they are being criticised...

That is simply not true at all.

Thums + up if you are also against gm crackers.

You know what? The next time I see anyone wasting posts asking begging for reputation votes, I'm going to reset their rep to zero. Don't make us regret enabling reputation here. And if you want rep, then make good posts. That is all.

[storkEXEC]

What might be helpful is just a little dialog asking do you want the latest build or the latest stable build. That way you get to choose from different builds in-case you use GM Lite on one computer and when you go on another computer you can download the same build you were using earlier without getting an unstable build or having to find a list of builds on the GMC and install manually.

[GameGeisha]

We have been planning to introduce a "beta" channel for a while... This will allow those who WANT to, to ignore updates until we think it's in a stable position.

Make sense, but can't you do it the low-tech way in the meanwhile? Adding a classifier next to the version number (e.g. Version 8.1.123 - UNSTABLE) could do for now. If someone who needs to work on a stable version misses the big letters, screw them, they need a good lesson on reading instructions anyways.

The community at large can do far better and quicker testing than we ever could, so if we didn't release until everything was tested top down, each release would take months; we obviously can't have that. Web games, and multiuser games have the philosophy: Release early, release often. We try to go with that.

Every time we do an update we expect a week or so of rapid updates after that as new issue creep in, but by the end of that process, it is pretty stable.

I'm starting to sense some discontent among the less experienced, newer users who are being caught in the middle of this. They have far less of an idea of how things should work compared to experienced users, thus they make far poorer test subjects. Crowdsourcing with these novices in the mix is a bad idea, it leaves a bad first impression on them and they probably won't contribute much to actual testing.

Also, the changeover to Unicode is a very significant change, all releases until nobody reports a real bug with Unicode strings should be unstable. I mean, we've already had several run-ins with serious problems in Unicode strings and INIs that render those versions unfit for general use. The process is still in progress, the product is still not stable, don't let the newbies get their hands on it.

GameGeisha

[Revel]

The process is still in progress, the product is still not stable, don't let the newbies get their hands on it.

Agreed, the general public and "newbies" probably aren't going to be submitting bugs anyway, so the dedicated testers or the people that don't mind the risk of a buggy version would be more likely to submit bugs anyway in my opinion.

I think having buggy software is a bad way to increase sales and overall isn't fun for the general user, which is why the bug testing needs to be done more privately.

It takes them a month to crack a gm version and when they are finished another is out.

This is wrong.


Anyway, glad to see Mike knows about the issue and may do something about it.

[ugriffin]

That is simply not true at all.

Hmmmmmmmm........

[FredFredrickson]

That is simply not true at all.

Hmmmmmmmm........

Got something to say about that, ugriffin?

Haha, seriously though, we don't close topics that are critical of the staff simply because they are critical of the staff. Sometimes we close those topics because they have already been discussed, or because the suggestion is unreasonable, but not usually, if ever, merely because the staff is being critiqued.

Edited by FredFredrickson, 21 July 2011 - 08:30 PM.

[ugriffin]

Yes, I second that. We try to close things that are detrimental to the community. If a "Fire ugriffin as a mod" topic popped up with real constructive criticism, I wouldn't close it. I think.

[xot]

Your mantra for today: There is always one more bug.

I'll be a lot happier when a beta channel is enabled. Until then, I'm still using 8.0 for almost everything that doesn't require an even older version.

[SenJe0]

Yes, I second that. We try to close things that are detrimental to the community. If a "Fire ugriffin as a mod" topic popped up with real constructive criticism, I wouldn't close it. I think.

lol! You guys are funny, I experienced closed topics about 5 times by criticising Mods and YYG. Anyway, I've been using GM since version 5.0 and really know a lot...In case you need dedicated experienced users don't hesitate knocking at my door...

I bet Fred wanted to close this topic, form the way he was speaking! He's angry!

[chance]

The community at large can do far better and quicker testing than we ever could, so if we didn't release until everything was tested top down, each release would take months;

I'm starting to sense some discontent among the less experienced, newer users who are being caught in the middle of this. They have far less of an idea of how things should work compared to experienced users, thus they make far poorer test subjects.

Sure, newbies have trouble with beta versions, and complain about bugs. But if YYG restricts beta testing to a select group of experienced testers, the newbies will complain about being left out.

So I think the best compromise is a labeling system, like you (GameGeisha) suggested. Let everyone participate... at their own risk.

[Rexhunter99]

Why is YYG rolling out buggy versions?
To stop pircay.

If you go to ceratin crack sites you will see how angry they are on yoyogames. It takes them a month to crack a gm version and when they are finished another is out.

Thums + up if you are also against gm crackers.

And so they should be upset about it, I paid a good 30 dollars for my copy of GM8.1, if people just crack it and spread it around I will feel like my good money was wasted.

As to the OP... there will ALWAYS be bugs, nothing ever released is bug-free and I do not know why some people think otherwise...

[Dangerous_Dave]

And so they should be upset about it, I paid a good 30 dollars for my copy of GM8.1, if people just crack it and spread it around I will feel like my good money was wasted.

If you think that your money is wasted when you pay for something and someone else pirates it, then either you don't spend much money or you waste a lot of money.

You should pay your cash to support those that are providing you with the software, whether it be the indie developer who relies on you for food, or the giant multinational company because the more software they sell the more people they can hire, allowing those people to have a decent standard of living.

The moral of the story is care what you do, don't care what others do.

Edited by Dangerous_Dave, 25 July 2011 - 07:22 AM.