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#481 Brawl

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 07:45 AM

...I don't know anything about the #GMC... those of you who don't like it, you aren't required to be there, so go home...

 
How about you keep your opinions to yourself if you don't know anything about this? It's a total cop out to just say "if you don't like it don't use it' - that solves nothing.


No thanks. And I disagree, but whatever, you're a fence post in this scenario.

For those of you who want the chat to be more orderly and official, welcome to the forums.

 

For those of you who don't want the chat to be more orderly and official,welcome to the #Gmc.

 
 
 

The biggest difference between chat rooms and forums are that chat rooms happen in real time, and forums act as a message system, in which posts are left and can be viewed at a later date or time.
 
Most chat rooms and forums are typically created around a central topic, hobby, lifestyle or interest. Chat rooms are typically more loosely based, with the conversation flowing depending on participants' mood and activity that particular day. Since message boards compile posts for a longer period of time, topics are often responded to in cycles, meaning the conversation can go a number of ways. Forum discussions are laid out by topics, called "threads", so a person can choose to scroll through pages and only participate in the topic or "thread" that interests him. In a chat room, if the current discussion isn't of interest to a reader, he has no choice but to participate, try to change the topic or wait until the topic changes organically.


That was my point... A chat is supposed to be spontaneous and an 'anything goes (within reason)' type of thing. If that's not your thing, then the forums are a much more organized, well structured way of communicating. Trying to make a chat more orderly is a waste of time when there's a perfectly good forum for that purpose.
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#482 Lukasmah

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 09:10 AM

Frankly, it would do the channels some good if it became affiliated with the GMC, because then you could ban people on the forums for behaviour in the chat.

And vice versa. But it's been said before that it isn't going to happen.
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#483 Lawsome

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 09:22 AM

Actually, thinking about it, it wouldn't do much good to threaten banning people on the forums, there are a few people there who are already banned on the forums and many more who are inactive and wouldn't mind being banned.
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#484 True Valhalla

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 09:26 AM

 

 

...I don't know anything about the #GMC... those of you who don't like it, you aren't required to be there, so go home...

How about you keep your opinions to yourself if you don't know anything about this? It's a total cop out to just say "if you don't like it don't use it' - that solves nothing.

 

You've taken him a bit to literally when he said "don't know anything", I mean, he read the topic, and he has a very valid point, most channels end up like this. It's a consequence in a place where is very hard to ban problem users.

 

Both of the points I highlighted are plain wrong. But clearly you've resigned to the concept of not improving something that could be improved...how very productive.

 

 

 

...I don't know anything about the #GMC... those of you who don't like it, you aren't required to be there, so go home...

 
How about you keep your opinions to yourself if you don't know anything about this? It's a total cop out to just say "if you don't like it don't use it' - that solves nothing.

 


No thanks. And I disagree, but whatever, you're a fence post in this scenario
 

 

At least I know what the hell I'm talking about.


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#485 Lawsome

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 09:44 AM

I had no idea it was possible to ban someone from an IRC, I thought that it was very east to bypass using simple programs... It is according to a lot of other people at least.


Also, I've been on quite a few channels and they are all very similar. I always assumed that the point of a channel was to be a little bit anarchic.

Edited by Lawsome1997, 08 August 2013 - 10:00 AM.

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#486 TheSnidr

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 12:40 PM

Provide some clarity.
 
Can or can't I make a topic about #GMIRC?
 
#GMC is way to immature to deserve a sticky, especially with all the stuff going on and the collective disliking towards the management, whether you know this or not.

We've never stopped anyone from making their own irc channels, so if you believe you have a channel worthy its own topic, go ahead and post it.

And by collective, do you mean you and Jobo? You've always been unreasonably proud and negative towards others, and Jobo's unable to accept that people don't like his creations (I'm specifically talking about the spambot he desperately wanted to have in the channel). Not my intention to insult, but I think it's a change for the good if you two switch to a different irc channel.
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#487 Jobo

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 01:33 PM

We've never stopped anyone from making their own irc channels, so if you believe you have a channel worthy its own topic, go ahead and post it.

And by collective, do you mean you and Jobo? You've always been unreasonably proud and negative towards others, and Jobo's unable to accept that people don't like his creations (I'm specifically talking about the spambot he desperately wanted to have in the channel). Not my intention to insult, but I think it's a change for the good if you two switch to a different irc channel.

 

You've been following this topic more than most of us, so it's a fact that you're aware of people not liking how personal Alonely / Lolligirl makes things. I almost got banned at one point for saying you, Snidr, knew nothing about 3d games programming techniques - and why did I almost get banned? Because Alonely and only Alonely took offense to what I said.

It's also a fact that I'm not the only one who's had such an "incident" with Alonely - something that most certainly wouldn't happen if the "owner of the channel" wasn't craving attention on a near immature level, dare I say.

 

All in all your purposefully narrowminded idea of what the word "collective" means suggests that you look the other way to these incidents - I know of plenty intellectual users who have been scared away from the #gmc either by some of the users in the channel, or by Alonely herself.

 

The only purpose #gmc serves at this point is to be an embarrassment to the entire GameMaker Community should people looking for advice enter the channel - and that's why a new IRC channel is required.


Edited by Jobo, 08 August 2013 - 01:33 PM.

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#488 Lolligirl

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 09:15 PM

Mostly @TheSnidr....

 

If someone is annoying, simply /ignore them...banning people for any reason is just about the dumbest thing I've ever heard of, this is the internet.  It really isn't that difficult to renew your IP address and change your nick and bam, you're back on.  It's pointless and wasteful resource, as such, moderation cannot be "doing a great job" and in fact isn't.  Quite honestly, when she's there, she has to be center of attention, almost 99% of the places I have been to have moderators that are silent so that there is no misunderstandings, being pulled in by trolls, or even becoming one.  The very fact that you have to suggest to anyone not to join the channel just because "people there don't like {him}" should show that you house fools.  TV has been making quite a bit of money using GM, and we can all learn by him regardless of his misstep advertising.

 

Also, the #GMC is not the official chat of the GMC, so this topic should NOT be sticky'd ever.  Making it a sticky makes it seem to new people that it is somehow official (no matter how many times you post that it's not, people don't read all the fine details).  Blocking others from advertising channels, or keeping those from being sticky'd is abuse of power.

 

Get your priorities straight, either you work for the GMC, or you are a spouter of #GMC....you can't be both, because they are not affiliated.

 

It's also less of a hassle to type /ban *** than it is to get back in time and time again, so there's your own argument working against you. As for your insults, I won't give a real reply to them since they're so needlessly hostile and unfounded (I idle more than 90% of the time I'm there), but I would like to ask what you would like the #gmc to actually do about its "fools". You say it houses fools...right after saying you're against banning. So...what do you want to be done? Ignoring them on one user's side, after all, doesn't ignore them for everyone else, and even if it did, they may as well be banned. Your paragraph makes no sense, and the hostility toward both of us is truly unwarranted.

 

 

 

I think a decision needs to be made here about whether the #gmc is officially endorsed by the GMC or not.

 

If it's not, then it should not be stickied and other topics about GM related IRC channels should be given the same preference as this one.

If it is, then it should be stickied and I'm happy with mods closing down other topics because we already have an IRC.

 

It's not right to say that the #gmc is not officially endorsed but if you want to promote an IRC here, it has to be the #gmc.

 

 

I'd rather that it was officially endorsed and stickied and some rules were negotiated with the #gmc about moderating it.

 

I wouldn't really be opposed to that.

 

 

 

 

We've never stopped anyone from making their own irc channels, so if you believe you have a channel worthy its own topic, go ahead and post it.

And by collective, do you mean you and Jobo? You've always been unreasonably proud and negative towards others, and Jobo's unable to accept that people don't like his creations (I'm specifically talking about the spambot he desperately wanted to have in the channel). Not my intention to insult, but I think it's a change for the good if you two switch to a different irc channel.

 

You've been following this topic more than most of us, so it's a fact that you're aware of people not liking how personal Alonely / Lolligirl makes things. I almost got banned at one point for saying you, Snidr, knew nothing about 3d games programming techniques - and why did I almost get banned? Because Alonely and only Alonely took offense to what I said.

It's also a fact that I'm not the only one who's had such an "incident" with Alonely - something that most certainly wouldn't happen if the "owner of the channel" wasn't craving attention on a near immature level, dare I say.

 

 

You never "almost got banned" for that, and I'm really unsure why you keep saying that. I was upset that you would insult anyone who is known by many on the forum and IRC alike to be knowledgeable about 3D, and that you downplayed people's abilities on multiple occasions. I'm not sure why you think I make things personal; for example, when you were spamming the channel, trying desperately to get back in (and specifically me with four bots saying "You're not winning"), all I said was that spam was not allowed and that the bot would be welcomed back if you would turn off features, which you turned back on after multiple members including myself, Snidr, Sir, Rawrity, and DaSpirit said they were annoying. A personal attack aimed toward me and only me certainly does come off as being personal.

 

I don't want to label what you're experiencing as redirection because I'm not a psychologist, but I am truly baffled how you are coming to some of your conclusions, such as how I instead of you am immature for banning spambots that you sent after me and then the channel when you couldn't get back in. As I'm really not sure what this is about anymore, I'm not going to use anymore time trying to figure out how to make you and Phantom107 happy at the same time as everyone else, since the two groups seem to be in conflict all the time. Truly, I do wish you the best in the new channel; it just seems the two of you and I cannot come to an agreement over anything and we should simply separate.

 

 

 

"I'll make my own #gmc...with blackjack and hookers!"

 

In all seriousness, #gmc would be fine if the administrators actually banned problem users. The same ones have been the biggest problem with the channel since it started, but the administrators just aren't willing to ban them, either because they are the most active users or because they are personally friends with them. But the fact is, they ruin this channel and make it look like ****.

 

See Sabriath's and Phantom107's posts. You cannot appease everyone; they don't want anyone banned, and you think more should be banned. I will always get hostile comments from both sides because of this, and there's not much I can do, so I just do the best I can with my instincts and by asking the channel members what I should do when I have no idea.

 

 

 

As for another IRC channel being created, I am all for it. Most of the people who join it are those who disagree with me on how the channel is moderated, be it too slack or too strict. They are the ones who pull me in either direction the absolute most, and thus I don't mind being separated from them. I hope the channel does well and I harbor no animosity toward any of the members, but I simply cannot allow in good faith the stuff I see some of them post in #gmc (such as spam by multiple bots and the spammer subsequently being backed up by those who wish for the bots to be ignored rather than banned). I think it is a good thing for all of us that the two groups branch off like this.

 

For honesty's purpose, I cannot take the new channel too seriously, though, as I'm pretty friendly to all of the members who are in the channel, including Phantom107 (the most I do nowadays is ban the spambots he backs up), and yet I am explicitly "not allowed" in the new channel for some reason. That does make me question the intentions behind the new channel creation, but no matter.


Edited by Lolligirl, 08 August 2013 - 09:40 PM.

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#489 Jobo

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 10:40 PM

I'm growing just as tired of this silly "debate" as the next, but let me reply to one quote.

 

 

For honesty's purpose, I cannot take the new channel too seriously, though, as I'm pretty friendly to all of the members who are in the channel, including Phantom107 (the most I do nowadays is ban the spambots he backs up), and yet I am explicitly "not allowed" in the new channel for some reason. That does make me question the intentions behind the new channel creation, but no matter.

I don't know where you get the idea from that you're "not welcome" in the new IRC channel. I can imagine you'd assume you aren't, but most of us (including myself) don't hold grudges over past events, so you're as welcome as you want to be. The point of the new IRC channel is not to get rid of you - you're not that important a factor in this.

The point of the new IRC channel is to create a proper dev chat environment, where #gmc failed horrendously (as pointed out by True Valhalla and sabriath and I'm sure many, many others) - and so far it's going quite well.

Unlike #gmc there have been no topics revolving around vulgarity, different perspectives on sexuality, the color of one's skin or who hates who the most (which, as far as I have experienced, are some of the most discussed topics in #gmc).

 

All in all #gmirc is doing a good job being a mature replacement for #gmc.


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#490 slojanko

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 04:53 AM

Jobo was friendly to me. But his bot... ekk :(


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#491 homm88

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 03:06 AM

Just joined up with #gmc, the people there are awesome, love the chat so far. ^^


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#492 Lolligirl

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 04:02 PM

I love how this thing keeps growing, especially around jam time. Yay, jam stragglers! :)


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#493 Alice

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 04:09 PM

Too bad I didn't know about that particular channel until today, especially since I would like to participate in more real-time Jam hype. :<
Well, I guess I'll have the chance the next time...? ^^"
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#494 Jobo

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 01:53 PM

Today a perfect example of why this IRC channel is complete garbage in terms of GameMaker Community association, and why it's an absolute outrage that TheSnidr keeps pinning this against other moderators' opinions, happened.

 

2EyO4Y8.png

 

Why could this be?

Quite likely due to the embarrassingly unrelated title of the IRC chat.

 

o0DYFbs.png

 

This topic should be unpinned instantly. It has been clear to many for a long time that there is absolutely no relation between the IRC and GameMaker or its community on whatever level, and now no one can deny that.

 

When the channel is so unfriendly to GMC users that it won't even associate itself with GameMaker or the GameMaker Community (in fact, many #gmc users directly despise GameMaker), it is an embarrassment to the GMC that it is pinned.


Edited by Jobo, 30 March 2014 - 01:58 PM.

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#495 Big J

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 02:01 PM

Today a perfect example of why this IRC channel is complete garbage in terms of GameMaker Community association, and why it's an absolute outrage that TheSnidr keeps pinning this against other moderators' opinions, happened.

 

2EyO4Y8.png

 

Why could this be?

Quite likely due to the embarrassingly unrelated title of the IRC chat.

 

o0DYFbs.png

 

This topic should be unpinned instantly. It has been clear to many for a long time that there is absolutely no relation between the IRC and GameMaker or its community on whatever level, and now no one can deny that.

Welcome to the Off Topic section, Jobo!

 

First of all, this GMC IRC topic is in the Off Topic section for a reason. It's not necessarily all about Game Maker, although Game Maker discussion is most certainly allowed.

 

I also see that this "Robinskie" person only waited 3 minutes. Can we really expect everybody to reply in a timely manner all the time? Maybe it just so happens that staring at a computer screen isn't the only thing we do all day, and we didn't manage to reply to his query. Oh well. I don't see how this is a valid reason to berate the #gmc IRC.


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#496 Phantom107

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 02:04 PM

The channel is awesome, and you can talk about GM at the right time to the right people. But yeah there's a lot of noise.


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#497 Jobo

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 02:11 PM

Big J,

 

When a pinned topic has a total reputation count of -5 (-6 but the last one was me, so that doesn't count!), and it contains about 10 pages of people saying the topic shouldn't be pinned, it is quite clear that the topic should in fact not be pinned, regardless of what forum section it is in.

 

If the user, Robinskie, had not been driven away by the fact that the IRC channel more resembles an anti-children channel (see IRC channel description) than a GameMaker Community channel, he would have waited longer, and users, myself included, would have been able to answer his question.

 

This topic is directly associating the IRC channel with the GameMaker Community, which - whether you like it to be or not - is associated with GameMaker.

 

Since it is a pinned topic users will assume it is endorsed by the GameMaker Community and its moderators and administrators, and that makes it an indirect representative of the GameMaker Community on the IRC network.

 

It should not be pinned.

 

I have voiced my opinion, and I will likely not respond to any posts past this, but I will read them.


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#498 Big J

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 02:18 PM

When a pinned topic has a total reputation count of -5 (-6 but the last one was me, so that doesn't count!), and it contains about 10 pages of people saying the topic shouldn't be pinned, it is quite clear that the topic should in fact not be pinned, regardless of what forum section it is in.
The reputation system is complete bullcrap and shouldn't be used to judge a topic. For example, I saw some of my really old help posts in the Q&A section get negative reputation because one or two users decided to downvote an entire topic (downvote bomb), post by post. Still, the ones claiming it shouldn't be pinned are the ones misunderstanding its purpose and not reading the disclaimer at the top of the first post on page 1.

 

This topic is directly associating the IRC channel with the GameMaker Community, which - whether you like it to be or not - is associated with GameMaker.

 

Since it is a pinned topic users will assume it is endorsed by the GameMaker Community and its moderators and administrators, and that makes it an indirect representative of the GameMaker Community on the IRC network.
There's a disclaimer at the top of the first post on page 1.

 

"WARNING: This chat is completely unofficial. Yoyo has nothing whatsoever to do with it so blame it on me and not them okay?" (Zeddy)

 

Since the topic for this unofficial IRC channel is in the Off Topic section and has a disclaimer, clearly stating that it's not endorsed or supported by the GMC Staff, I don't see a reason to unpin this topic.


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#499 PonggerMan

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 02:26 PM

I would just like to add my two cents here. I am no moderator but I do have posting power.

 

The GMC IRC channel is not and never will be an official Yoyogames channel. It has always been a community based channel full of people volunteering their time. The administration of this channel has no obligation to follow any direction given by Yoyogames or other community members.

 

Our small channel is in the IRC equavilant of the boonies, we are not attempting to make people think that it is an official channel for Game Maker nor would we want to. It is only because of Yoyogames' decision not to make an official channel that we have these problems. People do not realize that #gmc on irc.boredicons.com is just a group of people will similar interests getting together. We do not owe newbies any help but we do so anyways. We are not the best thing possible, but we are the best out there at this time.

 

And as for Jobo's complaints that "this channel is in no way trying to associate itself with the GMC or its users" (copied from logs of #gmc), that is strictly untrue. Not everything discussed in the channel is YYG or GM related but we have no real hatred for the product or the people behind it.


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#500 chance

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 02:39 PM

Personally, I don't think pinned topics (especially in Off Topic) necessarily imply the GMC endorses them.  However, I understand Jobo's point of view.  And it's a valid concern.  

 

But I haven't visited this chat site and have no idea what's discussed there.   So I'll leave it to the moderator / administrator who pinned it to decide.


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#501 NakedPaulToast

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 02:39 PM

Big J,

 

When a pinned topic has a total reputation count of -5 (-6 but the last one was me, so that doesn't count!), and it contains about 10 pages of people saying the topic shouldn't be pinned, it is quite clear that the topic should in fact not be pinned, regardless of what forum section it is in.

 

If the user, Robinskie, had not been driven away by the fact that the IRC channel more resembles an anti-children channel (see IRC channel description) than a GameMaker Community channel, he would have waited longer, and users, myself included, would have been able to answer his question.

 

This topic is directly associating the IRC channel with the GameMaker Community, which - whether you like it to be or not - is associated with GameMaker.

 

Since it is a pinned topic users will assume it is endorsed by the GameMaker Community and its moderators and administrators, and that makes it an indirect representative of the GameMaker Community on the IRC network.

 

It should not be pinned.

 

I have voiced my opinion, and I will likely not respond to any posts past this, but I will read them.

IRC is often a poor choice for technical help.

 

And regarding judging the value of this particular pinned topic by its reputation. That's just silly.

 

This topic was also created during the time frame where "bots" were negative repping topics. Look at who has negative repped this topic. You will see an overwhelming number of the negative reppers are indeed said bots. Had it not been for them this topic would be in the positives.

 

So, if one is going to use reputation as argument for a topic and its value, knowing that actual GMC members have really given this this topic a positive rating, then you have to then argue that the positive reputation this topic really has justifies it.

 

Having said that, I couldn't give a crap one way or the other whether the topic stays pinned or dropped off into oblivion. The few times I'e gone to it< I see a bunch of idlers or non-sense.


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#502 PonggerMan

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 02:45 PM

Personally, I don't think pinned topics (especially in Off Topic) necessarily imply the GMC endorses them.  However, I understand Jobo's point of view.  And it's a valid concern.  

 

But I haven't visited this chat site and have no idea what's discussed there.   So I'll leave it to the moderator / administrator who pinned it to decide.

 

You should come by some time, you may like it. :)


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#503 True Valhalla

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 03:35 AM

I've unpinned this thread multiple times in the past, only to have other moderators re-pin it simply because they use it. This thread is not special and has no place at the top of Off Topic. By having it pinned it is effectively being endorsed by the site moderators, and beginners will (clearly) visit it expecting a quality IRC channel...which is not what they find.


Edited by True Valhalla, 01 April 2014 - 06:43 AM.

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#504 paul23

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 10:19 AM

and why it's an absolute outrage that TheSnidr keeps pinning this against other moderators' opinions


I have seen no indication of this - and I'd prefer not to have a generic opinion shoved into my direction.
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#505 chance

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 01:17 PM

I've unpinned this thread multiple times in the past, only to have other moderators re-pin it simply because they use it. 

 

That wasn't the reason.  They re-pinned it to annoy you.

 

 

You should come by some time, you may like it.  :)

 

I might.  Should I masquerade as roytheshort, like everyone else?


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#506 3D2DGAMES

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 02:05 AM

I really like the channel. It is faster to get a response when you have a question than the forums.


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