143 replies to this topic

[Jobo]

Busted. Yes, I am in fact one of the people, whom I mentioned here;

There's people who don't have clean water to drink or bread to eat.
But why not help the kid with a house, a family car or other form of transport (bicycle, skateboard, scooter), a computer, a school to go to, a mobile phone and a television - I totally see the point.

That was very nice spotted of you.
But here's the thing. I have given money to charity before - and I don't even have a job.

Now to the more important matter: You ignored my question, so I will ask it again.

How do you know if the person truly can't afford it?

Edited by Jobo, 01 May 2011 - 01:21 PM.

[makerofthegames]

ESP

[Kindred]

Back in the day people use to praise each other for just using semicolons in their F1 help manuals properly. Nowadays you make breathtaking games with innovative gameplay and no one really bats an eyelash or gives much feedback (unless you're popular). There are so many people making video games now. I never imagined the GMC ever growing over 30,000 members let alone 100,000.

Carl Gustafsson's GML tutorial, the EZBoards, waiting eagerly for the new GMC open to nab a member ID spot under 100, Shawn64's games, Ocarina of Time 2D, GMC the Game, Ominous, and all the little MMORPGs run on dial-up servers that pioneered the great MMORPG flood for years to come are all token to my memory. Good times.

My only regret is not posting here more often. I forgot about it once I learned C++ and have never really got back into posting here. Everyone I knew has long left, yet Game Maker is still my number one choice for game prototypes. :9

[Dark Matter]

Nowadays you make breathtaking games with innovative gameplay and no one really bats an eyelash or gives much feedback (unless you're popular).

Could you give me some examples of breathtaking GM games please? I want to try them out.

[Desert Dog]

Now to the more important matter: You ignored my question, so I will ask it again.

How do you know if the person truly can't afford it?

How do you know that that money you give to 'save a childs life' isn't lining some red crosses fat-cat pocket?

How do you know that it will really save their lives?

How do you know that the western interference in these 'third-world nations' isn't solving anything, but rather, compouding the problem?

You don't know anything, really, do you? You aren't really interested in helping people, because you don't need to go to third-world nations to help someone. You can get out at midnight, in the middle of your city. See the homeless people, buy them a dinner, help out with a soup kitchen, or whatever your local church does to help these people. Actually help people's lives. Not send some donation out, from-money-you-apparantly-earned from a non-existant job, while sitting behind your $1900 worth of computers, so you can smugly tell people how good you are, and how stupid they are for trying to help out a young fella.

Helping is about opportunity. If your opportunity to help is donating, then fine, and good on you. Don't act all supercillious, condensing, and holier-than-thou because someone has the means and opportunity to help someone with the hobby they both love, and want to do that.

[Desert Dog]

Edit : And relax he is just saying some kid might try to scam someone into donating to him for a free ride which is definately possible (eg. look at the welfare line).

Not really 'just' saying any such thing. He called it enormously stupid, and then when someone mildly mentioned they thought it was o.k. called him a smart ass, and acted like a general jerk, bringing up a lot of saving lives in 3rd world nation stuff.

I'm not opposed to him doing what he wants with his money, whether it be donating to charity, or buy computers. Nothing in the world is wrong with that. Just like there is nothing wrong with buying someone a copy of GM.

This scam nonsense is nonsense. He could have been scammed when he brought his computers, for example, and paid twice the going rate. He could have been scammed by the charity.

We'll assume that he did his research, and paid a reasonable rate on the equipment, and that he researched the charity, and what work they do.

There is no reason to assume otherwise.

Yet he is quite willing to call this idea enormously stupid, and insult members who think it's o.k. because...? Because he assumes that they won't do a bit of research into who they are buying the copy for?

[Desert Dog]

Well thats my ignorance I started to skim near the end of the topic and your post came off quite hostile. Honestly this is being way over trivialized, there are simple solutions not easy ones.

Yeah, sorry about being the cranky guy in the topic. I think Jobo got whatever point I was trying to make, and if he didn't, there isn't anything more I can say. I should probably zip it now. :$

[Desert Dog]

Yeah I don't agree with it, unless the child is disabled they are perfectly capable of getting a job mowing grass and purchasing it themselves. Give a man Game Maker he'll program for a day and uninstall, teach a man to Game Maker he'll program for a lifetime... IDK but you get what I am trying to say... (:

I first discovered GM6 aages ago, told by a friend.

I had paper route, with enough money to purchase GM pro 10x over, and I very much wanted to.

They didn't have any means of income at all.(like job or anything)

They got registered.

I didn't.

See how that went? My enthusiasm eventually wanned, and it was some time before I got back into GM via the YYG's competitions, and got 'serious' about it. Even then it was near a year before I got pro.

It isn't about means, but opportunity. I think it's a mistake to judge people merely on your own experience growing up.

Edited by Desert Dog, 02 May 2011 - 02:43 AM.

[Desert Dog]

So you are agreeing/disagreeing with me? You don't make it very lucid. Why didn't you buy GM? And if your friends parents bought the game for them then they are obviously not teaching them the value of a dollar.

...no way to buy online...

[mcoot]

That was very nice spotted of you.
But here's the thing. I have given money to charity before - and I don't even have a job.

Now to the more important matter: You ignored my question, so I will ask it again.

Ah. It appears the GMC's (other) resident troll has returned!

You're not "helping" a kid in that matter - you're giving him more property. There's no kid in the world who can afford a computer but can't afford a $20 software.

Because it is obviously impossible to both give $25 to sponser a developer, and donate money to charity. And since we are probably dealing with minors, then there's a good chance they didn't pay for their computers.

There's people who don't have clean water to drink or bread to eat.

Nice argument there.

There are people dying of cancer. Therefore I shouldn't watch a movie at the cinema.

There are homeless people living on the streets. Therefore I shouldn't buy new clothes.

Your 'logic' doesn't hold up because the two 'causes' aren't mutually exclusive.

How do you know if the person truly can't afford it?

You don't. And furthermore it doesn't matter. If they are selected based on potential talent, then it doesn't matter if they could have bought it themselves. They'll get benefit out of it, and by extension so will the community.

Maybe they'd even donate the extra $25 to third world countries.

I see the whole "Help a kid, who can't afford it, pursue his dream" - but there's just nobody here who can't afford it.

Go and read the comments on the glog posts announcing price rises. That should cure you of any delusions that the average GM user has an independent income.

Most of the people making those comments don't deserve to be sponsored. Any user that isn't mature enough to understand that $20 -> $25 isn't a big deal probably won't be worthy of sponsorship, but it still shows that there are people who can't afford it.

As the amtter of fact I bought them both. Large 17" laptop (HP - $1400) for home use, and my 11.6" study laptop (Medion - $500).

Why would you do that? Surely, since there are people who are starving, you cannot logically spend $1900 on computer hardware!

People in the modern world can.

Except where child labour laws apply (protip: this refers to literally every first-world country). We are probably talking about children under 16, here. Most child labour laws prevent children under about 14 from working.

And there's no guarantee that a given person can do jobs for neighbours or other unofficial jobs. It really doesn't matter if it were possible for them to get it some other way. The fact that they showed potential and got benefit from the sponsorship renders any such point moot.

Could you give me some examples of breathtaking GM games please? I want to try them out.

A number of the games reviewed in the Reviewers Choice forum would count. Dubloon, Iji, Ark22 and so on.



To summarise this topic so far: It derails quickly to become about 'sponsorship' of a young GM user, and Jobo trolls it.

[Knuked]

Ah. It appears the GMC's (other) resident troll has returned!

Had I known initially he had such a reputation I wouldn't have wasted a reply, however by the second post or so I put two and two together, I'll steer clear from now on. Ultimately, this all has been blown out of proportion, I think we should get back to the topic at hand

[Dark Matter]

A number of the games reviewed in the Reviewers Choice forum would count. Dubloon, Iji, Ark22 and so on.

Firstly, they're not that good. You couldn't describe them as breathtaking. Secondly, all 3 have had loads of replies on their topics and loads of plays, so they don't count in the "no one really bats an eyelash or gives much feedback" category.

[Jobo]

@Desert Dog - It amazes me how well you manage to ignore my question.
I've asked it.. what, 2 or 3 times and yet the closest you've come to answer it was by asking me similar questions, yet totally unrelated to your quote.

He called it enormously stupid, and then when someone mildly mentioned they thought it was o.k. called him a smart ass

Nice done. You should be proud of yourself. What you basically did there, was take a movie which has won an award for containing the fewest racist jokes, strip out 1 minute of racist jokes from it, cut it together and display that 1 minute shortfilm on behalf of the entire movie.
I guess that's one way to get people on "your side of the cause" - ignoring the actual content, and exaggerate.
I did not call him a smartass for simply saying "I think it's ok.", I called him a smartass due to the way he responded to my post.

He could have been scammed when he brought his computers, for example, and paid twice the going rate.

I checked the prices in all the nearby stores. Sure as hell I wasn't scammed.
Can you check the economy of the nominees for this GM copy "sponsorship"? I don't think so.
That makes your argument invalid.

Because he assumes that they won't do a bit of research into who they are buying the copy for?

And how, if I may politely ask, do you expect to be able to check if a person is poor?
"Give me your bank account, I need to check if you're poor enough." - seriously? Come on. You can do better than that.

I should probably zip it now.

Yes, you should. It's really just starting to annoy me, having to answer your replies. And the one quoted above didn't make any valid sense at all.

Yeah I don't agree with it, unless the child is disabled they are perfectly capable of getting a job mowing grass and purchasing it themselves.

Thank you.

Had I known initially he had such a reputation

I don't. I merely had quite a large discussion with another user, whom I believe to be the biggest troll (besides being a general dumbass) who ever browsed the internet, right before Christmas. So it's like, 5 months ago. Get over it, mcoot.

Ah. It appears the GMC's (other) resident troll has returned!

Yes, it's amazing what you people call people who gives their opinion to the public.
You people either say "I agree" or say nothing at all.
I, for one, am not afraid to say "I don't agree". Honestly, you're not dealing too well with that.

Your 'logic' doesn't hold up because the two 'causes' aren't mutually exclusive.

I never said "There's people who don't have clean water to drink or bread to eat. - therefore you shouldn't eat or drink".
It's your logic that doesn't hold up, I never even implied anything like that.

If they are selected based on potential talent, then it doesn't matter if they could have bought it themselves.

Have you even read the topic? Quote from the OP;

As an aside, I wouldn't mind trying to set up a way to "sponsor" an aspiring game maker who doesn't have the money for new versions of GM.

I rest my case, troll.

Edited by Jobo, 02 May 2011 - 03:30 PM.

[makerofthegames]

A number of the games reviewed in the Reviewers Choice forum would count. Dubloon, Iji, Ark22 and so on.

Firstly, they're not that good. You couldn't describe them as breathtaking.

(emphasis added)
Yes, yes I can describe that as breathtaking.

Edited by makerofthegames, 02 May 2011 - 03:49 PM.

[NakedPaulToast]

Yeah I don't agree with it, unless the child is disabled they are perfectly capable of getting a job mowing grass and purchasing it themselves.

This simply isn't true.

While most people, even young people almost always have the ability to earn the money. Buying Game Maker or a lot of things on-line is simply not possible for some. Buying GM requires a credit card or a paypal account, both of which also require a minor to get approval from a parent. A paypal account also requires funding, requiring a credit card or association with a internet accessible bank account.

Some parents simply don't allow their children to make online purchases. It doesn't matter whether you agree with them or not, but to some young people, purchasing it themselves is not an option.

[Dark Matter]

A number of the games reviewed in the Reviewers Choice forum would count. Dubloon, Iji, Ark22 and so on.

Firstly, they're not that good. You couldn't describe them as breathtaking.

(emphasis added)
Yes, yes I can describe that as breathtaking.

You thought it was that good? Anyway, Iji is an old game. We were referring to the newer games.

[nickydude]

I remember fiddling around with all of Carl Gustafssons little examples around 2002 at least...

I remember having a couple of my examples on his site! Ahh... the good old days...

Edited by nickydude, 02 May 2011 - 05:25 PM.

[makerofthegames]

You thought it was that good? Anyway, Iji is an old game. We were referring to the newer games.

Yes, I did. And a lot of other people did, too. It won the 2nd King of the Cagematch, you know.

[Desert Dog]

Nice done. You should be proud of yourself. What you basically did there, was take a movie which has won an award for containing the fewest racist jokes, strip out 1 minute of racist jokes from it, cut it together and display that 1 minute shortfilm on behalf of the entire movie.
I guess that's one way to get people on "your side of the cause" - ignoring the actual content, and exaggerate.
I did not call him a smartass for simply saying "I think it's ok.", I called him a smartass due to the way he responded to my post.

People can go back, and read your posts, and his posts for themselves.

Can you check the economy of the nominees for this GM copy "sponsorship"? I don't think so.
That makes your argument invalid.

Speaking of avoiding questions, so what do you know about that charity? Check the back-account of the kid who's live your said to be saving? Even know the NAME of the kid you were singing about having to save?

Come on, a little bit of logical thinking please. You don't have to act like this is some secret service mission, or mission Holy.

Maelron has made some of the finest games made with GM.. made with GM lite. He's worked with GM for some time and made a decent number of games. I think it's absurd your worrying that he might be trying to 'scam' you out of $20, or that maybe he can actually 'afford' to pay for it. If someone enjoys his games, and wants to see him go further, and buys him GM pro, then nice.

There is no scam.
It's not absolutely stupid.
Maelron probably can afford GM pro, and any wannabe sponsor is likely aware of that.
3rd world nations have nothing to do with any of this.

Edited by Desert Dog, 02 May 2011 - 09:33 PM.

[NakedPaulToast]

Ahh but they can, preloaded mastercards and visas are available at the local dollar general and walmarts... how do you think I got GM before I recently turned 18?

Not always, and not reliably.

One of the problems with the prepaid cards is they can fail the address verification test, resulting in a canceled transaction. There have been numerous posts from people who have attempted to use these cards and not been successful.

They also have exorbitant fees.