145 replies to this topic

[hermanshooltz]

Hi everyone!
I'll start straight forward, if you don't mind.

Ok, I do know that YoYo did not spend all of the 1,5 years (which passed since 8.0 was released) working on 8.1.
But still, it is a LOT of time for the community. Sounds like a serious update, doesn't it?
Anyway, they managed to mess it up again.

Why did not they make a proper beta-testing?
How many testers were there? Seems like very little.

Here are some popular bugs and fails:

1) New GM does not display Cyrillic characters, at all. Even in the script editor.
Here's what I see instead of Cyrillics:


2) Some gm8.0 projects display "Runtime Error" on startup.
Wach a Video

3) You can compile watermark-free exes in the Light version without buying the Standart - just open the project in gm8.1, run it and copy the exe it creaed from temp folder.

4) If you rename "anygame.gm81" into "anygame.gmk" and change the 4th byte in any HEX-editor from 2A to 20, the game will magically open in Game Maker 8.0
EDIT: this is not a bug, it is an alteration for the future versions of the program

5) Another small fail of the new GUI:

EDIT: some users have the same problem with gm8.0

6) There is no increase in speed between gm8.0 and gm8.1 projects (changelog says the opposite)

7) The file size of an empty project is now twice as big. (from ~2MB in gm8.0 to ~4MB in 8.1)

8) A new version comes with no default resources (sprites, sounds, etc.) - makes it more difficult for beginners to make first steps with the program.
EDIT: default resources actually do exist, but under a different path (%user%\AppData\Roaming\GameMaker)

9) The compilation takes longer in gm8.1 than in gm8.0 (it took twice the time for some projects)
If the game is complex and contains many resources the compilation progress bar will be "Not Responding" for a while
Watch a Video

10) You now have to use the 'correct' amount of arguments. Which sometimes makes it very hard to import projects created with older versions of GameMaker (including 8.0)
This change is also pretty illogical, and confuses the scripting process.

I can say that I've always been very loyal and patient about YoYo Games.
But now I don't really see where the company is going.

Edited by hermanshooltz, 17 April 2011 - 08:56 PM.

[Cup of Joe]

#1 - That's a shame, but not a huge issue for most of their customers. Therefore, it'll probably be a while till it's corrected.
#2 - Going to be fixed, no doubt.
#3 - Did you test this yourself? It sounds right in theory, but if I remember correctly, YoYoGames makes the EXE's that you build in the EXE contain special data that won't let you run the game if it's not ran at a specific time (IE, the time that it's built originally).
#4 - So? .gm81 wasn't meant to be a different file format structure wise, it's meant to be a different file format for identity purposes. Calling that an epic fail is stupid.
#5 - That's been around since GM8, and I believe GM7. Nothing new there.
#6 - Odds are that if there are speed differences, they're very minor. This isn't a major update.

[Knuked]

Ouch, I must say, normally I'd come in here and bash around a hater or two but some of those things you found are very interesting. How did you do a performance test might I ask out of pure curiosity?

[hermanshooltz]

#3 - Did you test this yourself? It sounds right in theory, but if I remember correctly, YoYoGames makes the EXE's that you build in the EXE contain special data that won't let you run the game if it's not ran at a specific time (IE, the time that it's built originally).

I did a test myself. It works. I also was pretty surprised they did not consider this.

#4 - So? .gm81 wasn't meant to be a different file format structure wise, it's meant to be a different file format for identity purposes. Calling that an epic fail is stupid.

I did not call this particular fact an "epic fail", be attentive.

#5 - That's been around since GM8, and I believe GM7. Nothing new there.

Nope, gm8.0 wont allow you resize the script editor window below this:


PS
I updated the first post a bit.

Edited by hermanshooltz, 17 April 2011 - 12:39 AM.

[hermanshooltz]

Ouch, I must say, normally I'd come in here and bash around a hater or two but some of those things you found are very interesting. How did you do a performance test might I ask out of pure curiosity?

Just running some of my projects in both gm8.0 and gm8.1 through debug mode and simply comparing the fps.

[Manuel777]

I say theese things to everyone; so i will be straight forward, if you dont mind:
_The size of the .exe is irrelevant.
_GameMaker never had any default resources, we leave that for 'GameMaker for kids'.
_Lite test exe's have a time limit, ha-ha.
_If you find a bug, report it. Mike and others are more than happy to read concise bug reports and fix them ASAP.
_You can always keep using 8.0
_And foremost, this is a minor update, from 8.0 to 8.1, what do you expected?

[hermanshooltz]

_The size of the .exe is irrelevant.

Ehm.. Excuse me?..

_GameMaker never had any default resources, we leave that for 'GameMaker for kids'.

Game Maker was created as a tool for beginner game developers, who by the way form the largest part of its userbase.

_Lite test exe's have a time limit, ha-ha.

Are you sure they do while running through gm8.1?

Mike and others are more than happy to read concise bug reports and fix them ASAP.

And the community is happy when a new update which took 1,5 years to be made comes bug-free.

_And foremost, this is a minor update, from 8.0 to 8.1, what do you expected?

Again, this is a minor update which took 1,5 years. I expected an upgrade instead of downgrade.

_You can always keep using 8.0

Don't you think this "offer" is a bad sign for a new release?

[smbmaster99]

Nope, gm8.0 wont allow you resize the script editor window below this:

Actually, that glitch happens to me quite often, despite not being able to shrink the editor below what you are showing. Not sure how it happens, it just sort of does it randomly.

it doesn't seem like too much of a problem though, I just dragged the mouse over it and clicked a few of the buttons and it went away.

[mcoot]

1) New GM does not display Cyrillic characters, at all. Even in the script editor.

Valid enough point. I don't particularly care though.

2) Some gm8.0 projects display "Runtime Error" on startup.

Haven't seen this one, are you sure it's not something you've done?

3) You can compile watermark-free exes in the Light version without buying the Standart - just open the project in gm8.1, run it and copy the exe it creaed from temp folder.

Go and read through what Mike Dailly said, these EXEs expire.

4) If you rename "anygame.gm81" into "anygame.gmk" and change the 4th byte in any HEX-editor from 2A to 20, the game will magically open in Game Maker 8.0

I'm not sure I believe you, can't be bothered trying.

5) Another small fail of the new GUI:

That was in GM8.0 too.

6) There is no increase in speed between gm8.0 and gm8.1 projects (changelog says the opposite)

I found a modest speed increase - but a speed increase none the less.

7) The file size of an empty project is now twice as big. (from ~2MB in gm8.0 to ~4MB in 8.1)

Just tried that: didn't happen.

8) A new version comes with no default resources (sprites, sounds, etc.) - makes it more difficult for beginners to make first steps with the program.

And since when has anyone cared about default resources?

[GameGeisha]

8) A new version comes with no default resources (sprites, sounds, etc.) - makes it more difficult for beginners to make first steps with the program.

The examples and default resources are still around, only this time they're in your AppData\Roaming folder rather than Program Files. All you'll find in Program Files is the updater and the installers. Nevertheless I still find the placement of these files somewhat illogical.

GameGeisha

[hermanshooltz]

1) Haven't seen this one, are you sure it's not something you've done?

2) Go and read through what Mike Dailly said, these EXEs expire.

3) Just tried that: didn't happen.

4) And since when has anyone cared about default resources?

1) All I've done is click File->Open

2) Do they expire during testing through gm8.1 ? What was the reason of putting in a watermark then?

3) Make sure you tried it in 8.1 not in 8.0 (by the way, it would be nice if someone could do the same test in 8.1 and post the result)

4) Beginners did since the very first version.

[Manuel777]

Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy..

Exes do expire if you do not run them from GM. They are un-shareable.

It took 1.5 years to make because they where roking on ther things (IOS port, GM4Mac, Android), to keep YoYo alive. Actually, it took half a year, because they wherent working on v8.1 until 5-6 months ago.

Begginers didnt used GM in its first version, it wasnt even a game creation program on its first version.

Don't you think this "offer" is a bad sign for a new release?

Nope, because you're the one complaining. I am using 8.1 right now. If YOU dont like it dont use it, as simple as that.

[mcoot]

2) Do they expire during testing through gm8.1 ? What was the reason of putting in a watermark then?

The executables created through GMLite don't expire. Only the ones in the Temp folder - so that you can't just use those.

3) Make sure you tried it in 8.1 not in 8.0 (by the way, it would be nice if someone could do the same test in 8.1 and post the result)

Of course I tried it in 8.1! That was the point.

4) Beginners did since the very first version.

Of course, they are available from the site, and as GameGeisha said they actually are there anyway.

And the community is happy when a new update which took 1,5 years to be made comes bug-free.

They did go through a beta process. And one of the most important parts of the update was the new updater, so they can easily fix any bugs found.

Again, this is a minor update which took 1,5 years. I expected an upgrade instead of downgrade.

And what exactly has been downgraded?

Are you sure they do while running through gm8.1?

I don't think they do while you run them through GM8.1. But if you copy the EXE out of the temp directory then that will expire.

Nope, because you're the one complaining. I am using 8.1 right now. If YOU dont like it dont use it, as simple as that.

I'm really liking 8.1. The only thing that hasn't worked well for me is that the code completion box seems to lag a couple of seconds behind, meaning that I'll finish typing something, put a bracket, press enter to go to the next line and the code-completed resource/function will appear, like so:

instance_create(150,200,obj_whatever);obj_whatever

Edited by mcoot, 17 April 2011 - 01:41 AM.

[True Valhalla]

Report the bugs, and get over the rest...

[hermanshooltz]

1) Exes do expire if you do not run them from GM. They are un-shareable.

2) It took 1.5 years to make because they where roking on ther things (IOS port, GM4Mac, Android), to keep YoYo alive. Actually, it took half a year, because they wherent working on v8.1 until 5-6 months ago.

3) Begginers didnt used GM in its first version, it wasnt even a game creation program on its first version.

1) You can get the exe that is compiled when you are testing a project through gm8.1

2) Please, be attentive:

Ok, I do know that YoYo did not spend all of the 1,5 years (which passed since 8.0 was released) working on 8.1.
But still, it is a LOT of time for the community

3) First of all in the very beginning it wasn't Game Maker it was Animo. The first version of gm included default resources.
Default resources are useful for beginners, hope no one will argue with this point.
Thanks to GameGeisha we clarified the fact they are still there, but their location is really somewhat illogical.

Edited by hermanshooltz, 17 April 2011 - 01:44 AM.

[Klassic]

There are some valid complaints here, but calling 8.1 an epic fail isn't going to win you points with anyone. If you find a bug, submit it and it will be fixed for the following version. There isn't much point in creating a new thread for the sake of complaining.

[hermanshooltz]

There are some valid complaints here, but calling 8.1 an epic fail isn't going to win you points with anyone.

You are right, I've changed the title.

If you find a bug, submit it and it will be fixed for the following version. There isn't much point in creating a new thread for the sake of complaining.

The thread was created to post the bugs for the community, not for the developers alone. I think it can be useful.
And all these were reported.

Another reason of creating this topic is to draw community's attention to the problem of closed beta-tests and the YoYo general way of development.

Edited by hermanshooltz, 17 April 2011 - 02:36 AM.

[Andy]

This hardly constitutes failure, let alone "epic" failure. The most problematic thing you list can be fixed with $25. True, Game Maker 8.1 isn't perfect, but nothing is perfect. Don't be a negative Nancy.

[hermanshooltz]

1)The most problematic thing you list can be fixed with $25.

2) True, Game Maker 8.1 isn't perfect, but nothing is perfect. Don't be a negative Nancy.

1) Which one are you talking about? I already bought GM8.1 standard (and with a huge bug too, but this one I will not post here)

2) This is not about being not perfect, this is about being worse in some cases then previous version.
And please do not post your usual "stop complaining you complaining complainer" It carries nothing but ignorance.
I am trying to be constructive.

[njp]

the time limits a stupid idea if you ask me,anyone can just set their computer clock back again.

[YellowAfterlife]

#1 Indeed, does not. Or specifically does, but in unknown encoding. Luckily I rarely have cyrrilic comments (actually any comments) in my projects.
#2 Projects crash GameMaker if you are missing a extension or library.
#3 To be checked. Edit: indeed, executable in Temp\, created 9 hours ago says '.LITE exe has expired'.
#4 Indeed, but that will not fix incompatibility with new constants and variables. That's why the extension and few bytes were changed, I believe.
#5 Happens here too, as well as periodic flickering of that unfortunate caption.
#6 Script execution speed is confirmed to be slower than in GM8.0; Several graphics-related functions are said to work faster, but that needs to be confirmed.
#7 Compression! As said, something changed)
#8 No, it comes with everything. It's just in your %user%\AppData\Roaming\GameMaker folder.

+ You can see a bunch of reported bugs and suggestions by me here: http://bugs.yoyogame...view.php?id=731 (for some reason devs dont pay a sh. so far)

++ Do you need a flash version of your image->icon converter?

Edited by YellowAfterlife, 17 April 2011 - 02:27 AM.

[hermanshooltz]

1) Projects crash GameMaker if you are missing a extension or library.

2) To be checked. Edit: indeed, executable in Temp\, created 9 hours ago says '.LITE exe has expired'.

1) Some gm8.0 show "Runtime error" at startup even if they have no extensions added.

2) Guess there might be some work-around for this too.

//sorry, misread the last one, edited post

Edited by hermanshooltz, 17 April 2011 - 02:43 AM.

[hermanshooltz]

Added #9:

9) The compilation takes longer in gm8.1 than in gm8.0 (it took twice the time for some projects)

Edited by hermanshooltz, 17 April 2011 - 02:50 AM.

[mcoot]

2) This is not about being not perfect, this is about being worse in some cases then previous version.

Where?

the time limits a stupid idea if you ask me,anyone can just set their computer clock back again.

That's why it isn't used, except for the temporary executables, which expire directly after you finish playing them through GM.

Default resources are useful for beginners, hope no one will argue with this point.

I'm willing. I'd rather beginners just went and drew or found their own resources - that way we'd have less repetitive resource-pack sprites in newbie games. Besides, getting resources a valuable skill, and one that they need to learn.

And please do not post your usual "stop complaining you complaining complainer" It carries nothing but ignorance.
I am trying to be constructive.

No you are not. You post 'Game Maker 8.1 - Epic Fail...' and then go on about bugs that are either barely relevant, or aren't even there.

9) The compilation takes longer in gm8.1 than in gm8.0 (it took twice the time for some projects)

EDIT: Prove it. I just made an executable in 8.1 for a 7.7MB executable (~4MB source). It took 5 seconds. Anyone care to provide a similar figure for 8.0?

Edited by mcoot, 17 April 2011 - 02:56 AM.

[Chronic]

Report bugs here: http://bugs.yoyogames.com/

[hermanshooltz]

1) Where?

2) That's why it isn't used, except for the temporary executables, which expire directly after you finish playing them through GM.

3) I'm willing. I'd rather beginners just went and drew or found their own resources - that way we'd have less repetitive resource-pack sprites in newbie games. Besides, getting resources a valuable skill, and one that they need to learn.

4) No you are not. You post 'Game Maker 8.1 - Epic Fail...' and then go on about bugs that are either barely relevant, or aren't even there.

5) EDIT: Prove it. I just made an executable in 8.1 for a 7.7MB executable. It took 5 seconds. Anyone care to provide a similar figure for 8.0?

1) Again. First post.

2) I am not quite sure right now, but I think some registry adjusting can 'fix' that.

3) This is not what beginners need when they are learning how to use the program.

4) Again. If something is "barely relevant" for you - it doesn't mean it is same for everyone.

5) You did not compare anything, you just made an executable in gm8.1. Nothing to prove here.

[hermanshooltz]

Report bugs here: http://bugs.yoyogames.com/

Some of the points are not bugs, but rather "downgrades" from 8.0

[Manuel777]

Then suck up and use 8.0, im sorry but it really bothers me :/

[mcoot]

1) Again. First post.

And time and time again you've failed to provide any evidence of downgrades, with the exception of Cyrillic characters.

2) I am not quite sure right now, but I think some registry adjusting can 'fix' that.

Hmmm... I doubt it.

3) This is not what beginners need when they are learning how to use the program.

If they know how to use a computer then surely they can use a basic image editor. Even so, as it is, they do have access to the resources, so this isn't a 'downgrade' in any way.

4) Again. If something is "barely relevant" for you - it doesn't mean it is same for everyone.

Not many people care about the difference between a 2MB file and a 4MB file, which contrary to what you imply will not 'double the size' of your projects. Nor do they care about your unsubstantiated claims of longer executable creation times (note that this is NOT compilation).

5) You did not compare anything, you just made an executable in gm8.1. Nothing to prove here.

Hence why I asked if anybody has comparable figures for 8.0. And even so, it shows that the compilation times are not unreasonably long, as you suggest.

Edited by mcoot, 17 April 2011 - 03:49 AM.

[Andy]

1)The most problematic thing you list can be fixed with $25.

2) True, Game Maker 8.1 isn't perfect, but nothing is perfect. Don't be a negative Nancy.

1) Which one are you talking about? I already bought GM8.1 standard (and with a huge bug too, but this one I will not post here)

2) This is not about being not perfect, this is about being worse in some cases then previous version.
And please do not post your usual "stop complaining you complaining complainer" It carries nothing but ignorance.
I am trying to be constructive.

Sorry I read:

3) You can compile watermark-free exes in the Light version without buying the Standart

as

3) You can't compile watermark-free exes in the Light version without buying the Standart

so I retract my "$25 dollars" statement.

Anyway - I still wouldn't call Game Maker 8.1 an "epic fail." Anyone can compile a watermark free EXE, on any version of Game Maker, via piracy.