143 replies to this topic

[FredFredrickson]

I like the idea of a watermark in the corner. It's not as obtrusive as some of the other options, but nobody wants to have a permanent mark on their work that says "made with the trial / lite version of Game Maker. Buy to remove this mark!". Maybe even have it bounce around the window like a screensaver after a minute or two, or have it shake or jiggle or something.

I think the key is that you do this in a way that is somewhat visually disruptive, but not disturbing enough to turn people off to the whole thing altogether.

[GearGOD]

I must be missing something, but what is the point of discussing whether a watermark should be coloured or shaking when the fundamental question is whether any watermark or other 'encouragement' will actually get anyone from that demographic to pay. The answer is decidedly no for the vast majority of them.

[makerofthegames]

Thank you for that meaningless statement not backed up by anything you posted there, GG.

[fawful]

Thank you for that meaningless statement not backed up by anything you posted there, GG.

GG has a point

[GameGeisha]

Or current thought ( and we're more than happy to change if you provide a better alternative ) is that we'll "mark" the .EXE in some way. Our current thought is that we'll do a TV style logo that's always in the corner, or perhaps a ticker that scrolls along. Something that clearly marks it, but doesn't disable it outright - perhaps even a very faint watermark over the whole screen like Google maps does?

A watermark like that works for Google Maps, but not for a game. There is simply too much going on in a game. A watermark, especially a whole-screen one, would be too distracting.

I have a suggestion for an alternative to EXE export this topic:

It's possible to keep the no-executable restriction in, but at least distribute another lite runner program which grabs a GMK from the working directory and executes it, just like how the InstantPlay runner currently handles games. You can put reminders to buy GM or affiliated products in the runner, showing them once when the game starts up and again when it ends. Popcap games already do this and I don't find it very intrusive.

Any comments?

GameGeisha

[Eb-Tech]

Is it really such a bad thing to have a lot of people using the free version? This not only sucks casual users in (some of who will eventually reach a level where they want the Pro edition), but also spreads the word. Isn't that how Game Maker became so popular to begin with?

I don't think there should be anything that would annoy users too much or discourage high school classes from using it, especially since there are other free alternatives available. Maybe just put a better Game Maker advertisement while loading the game, including a link to http://www.yoyogames.com/gamemaker. This way, when a GM Lite user shows off their game to friends, they might decide to get Game Maker for themselves as well

Edit: it might be better to sell Pro based on how good it is, rather than on how bad Lite is, if that makes sense. Maybe we should think of better ways to show off Pro's features?

Edited by Eb-Tech, 31 March 2011 - 04:42 PM.

[ExciteMike]

Forgive me if these have already been mentioned, it's grown to be a pretty big thread.

Idea #1:
Would it be possible that the difference between the full version and lite version is licensing? As in, games made with the full version of GM can be sold, but not those made with the lite version.

This could be combined with missing features and watermarks.

Idea #2:
Could exes made in the lite version have ads on startup? That way YoYo could in theory make money even from the folks who aren't paying for GM?

Edited by ExciteMike, 31 March 2011 - 06:55 PM.

[Shadow Link]

We use the GameMaker icon.
You can't go SMALLER that a 256x256 room/window size.
We put a "Make with GameMaker" thing in a corner of the screen (let you pick)
The game "title" is forced to something like "Made with GameMaker Lite - http://blah"
GameMaker advert on exit that stays up for 5-10 seconds. (any preference?)
However... We'll also add ZOOM and draw_self() into the Lite version.

That's pretty good, though allow me to make ammends.

Concerning GM-Lite compiled EXEs (such as above)

- Game maker icons is fine
- I don't see how this will help, but ok. I also like the no full-screen option that was suggested earlier - I'll explain why below.
- Watermark is fine
- Title would come off as "buy GM to remove me!", plus many newbies use this for showing game score. Scratch it unless you plan to allow showing score + your own text
- Timed ads in the beginning, middle, or end are all timed. Waiting sucks. How about since you (probably?) are going to disable full-screen, have the ad run along the side of the game window (outside of it) all through run-time? Think of it like a clickable splash screen, that at any time, a game player could click and be directed to where to download/buy GM. This also doesn't interfere with game play. And, if you think users could just drag the window to the side of the screen to remove it, how about changing the current Lite banner (the one in the top left) to just stay there during run-time and be clickable?
- Zoom/draw_self() sound nice.


Concerning GM-Lite IDE EXEs (F5/F6 ones)

- If you can "lock" these from people copying them from the temp directory, why not have these EXEs compile as if made by Pro? That way, potential customers get the full taste, but can do anything with it? They'll become spoiled and want those features, but then be restricted to Lite-compiled EXEs. This let's them pick: Develop without pro features in order to distribute or develop with pro features only to spoil myself?
- I'm not sure if a 10-minute time limit is the way to go. Just don't allow the EXE to run if it's not running under GM's IDE.


EDIT: Messed up BBCode.
EDIT2: Some elaboration.

Edited by Shadow Link, 31 March 2011 - 05:33 PM.

[Rusty]

We use the GameMaker icon.
You can't go SMALLER that a 256x256 room/window size.

How is this beneficial? Wouldn't it be more effect if you couldn't go larger than a certain room size? If you disabled larger rooms for the Lite edition then put a reasonable cap on the amount of rooms able for use then you could effectively shorten Lite games. it doesn't stop Lite Users from making fun or great games but it just says "if you want to make a longer game then upgrade".(Also as Shadow Link mentioned, disabling full screen is annoying but not exactly life threatening to Lite users)

We use the GameMaker icon.
We put a "Make with GameMaker" thing in a corner of the screen (let you pick)

As long as it stays in the corner and isn't bright red or something it should be fine.

We use the GameMaker icon.
The game "title" is forced to something like "Made with GameMaker Lite - http://blah"

As a sub-title this would work fine.

We use the GameMaker icon.
GameMaker advert on exit that stays up for 5-10 seconds. (any preference?)

Nobody cares what a program is doing when it's closing down because they;re done with it. Instead force a 10 second "Made with Game Maker" ad every time a Lite produced game is ran from an .EXE. It advertises pretty damn well and can be slightly irritating (but again, not disastrous) to Lite users.

Also, YoYoGames has a website, use it. If you can find a way for the site to tell the difference between Lite and Pro users you have a whole new world of privileges to exploit.

[oddbob0]

I like the idea of a watermark in the corner. It's not as obtrusive as some of the other options, but nobody wants to have a permanent mark on their work that says "made with the trial / lite version of Game Maker. Buy to remove this mark!". Maybe even have it bounce around the window like a screensaver after a minute or two, or have it shake or jiggle or something.

I think the key is that you do this in a way that is somewhat visually disruptive, but not disturbing enough to turn people off to the whole thing altogether.

I'd probably avoid jiggling (oof, matron - this is the only time!) as you want the logo to double up as an advert also rather than just something that screams OUT TO SCREW WITH YOU, SUNSHINE.

[Shadowrend]

Having watermarks in your game will be frustrating, and I will tell you this: It won't work. How? If you place a watermark on a game, the instant the producer sees it, he will get demotivated. For example.. what if he wanted a cool hud over the screen, or something. Watermarking isn't for games - it disables the enjoyance (wtf why is enjoyance spell-checked?) of playing a game. There for this WILL force the player to buy the pro edition if he is willing (estimated <25%), or just quit game maker, and try a better program. Face it. GM isn't a super mega extremely powerful game tool, for users to ignore such a thing. Game Maker is just a grain of sand in the desert of game making programs. Someone would rather go and learn Java or something, that is free, and make 100x powerful games than he/she could imagine in GM.

Thus, having a watermark = doom for YoYo's economy.
PS: Where the hell do you even think of a watermark in a game?


Also, during this theme I would like to notify you that GM is highly piratized and can be found very easily. Therefor, I don't think they will even bother trying the lite version of a program that add's watermarks, they would just use their default search engine.

So, what to do then. Well there are other options left... All you need is a bit of imagination.

After the watermark dusted off, here are some ideas of my own (With my likeness rate 1-10).

• Cannot change icon. 3
• Cannot change load. 7
• GM banner at start of game. 10
• Room caption something. 2 (Dull, ineffective)
• No full screen. 6 (Though most games don't use fullscreen)
• Restrain from functions. 8
• Limit the number of each resource. 1 (Most novice users do things with a crapload of objects and sprites, so this would be very demotivational (again spell-check...))
• Limit to Simple Mode, disable advanced. 9 (I didn't need advanced functions until like my 4th month of GM-ing, so good for learning)

And thats about it I can think of... I beg you, pulverize the watermark idea, for the sake of GManity.

~Shadowrend

PS: I didn't read much of the previous comments as I don't have that much free time, so don't bother commenting how someone else suggested that already.

Edited by Shadowrend, 31 March 2011 - 06:21 PM.

[Shadow Link]

I whipped up a mock-up just to see if you like my first idea (compiled EXEs). http://img121.images...mlitescreen.png

[ani12321]

In my opinion the best thing for Game Maker Lite is to create exes with the same restrictions as in 8.0 plus adding an advert on exit that may be a GM logo and two buttons( buy game maker now and maybe later) plus not allowing users to sell their games. I think that with those restrictions, both GM users and Yoyogames will be happy.

[Shadowrend]

[CUT]

Edited by Mike.Dailly, 31 March 2011 - 06:55 PM.

[Hach-Que]

The original idea of removing executable generation from Lite is bad. It's just bad. Trying to substitute that for other bad ideas by crippling the product in other ways isn't better either; it's still just as bad.

Point is, if I hadn't been able to create the (unreleased) games I was able to in the unregistered version of 5.3 (although I did use the program prior to this), I wouldn't have upgraded and put around $50 into the product with GM5-7 and GM8 purchases, simply because I wouldn't have been able to create anything worthwhile and still think, hmm, if I had Pro, I could improve it just a little bit more. No, with the suggestions that have been made, I would have just not even bothered and you wouldn't have had your $50.

Don't look at Lite users as people who will never pay and then try to monetize them. Look at them as future Pro (or Standard) users and construct features in such a way that they'll develop their skills to a point where they're still creating worthwhile stuff, but they need Pro to go that little bit further. It might take years of using Lite to get to this stage. A purchase of Pro a little bit later is better than no purchase at all.

Edited by Hach-Que, 31 March 2011 - 06:48 PM.

[Shadowrend]

[CUT]

Edited by Mike.Dailly, 31 March 2011 - 06:57 PM.

[Shadowrend]

It wasn't personal. It was meant for the entire human race. If you think if yourself as "all", then you are pathetic. Read my friend, don't let the rage block your mind.

Edited by Shadowrend, 31 March 2011 - 07:01 PM.