143 replies to this topic

[Yal]

So the idea is a whole new 8.1, and we'll remove all the older versions so as not to confuse things.

Would it be possible to keep an (already upgraded) copy of 8.0 Pro on a computer one installs 8.1 on? It was mentioned somewhere that one shalt keep backup copies of files edited with 8.1 the first few weeks or so for safety reasons.

then also dont compile the free-version gmks on the site (so don't share it).

Why do you think YYG would do that? They have more important things to do than to steal editable games.

Edited by Yal, 31 March 2011 - 11:21 AM.

[ragarnak]

What we're aiming for is to encourage users who will never buy it, to do so.

Well, a question: GM v8.0 already has a start-screen in which the user/potential customer must select something (the "continue using the lite version"). It also has the showing of the GM logo whenever he starts the executable. The potential customer is also shown that there are quite a few D&D commands he's not yet allowed to use, with similar messages for the equivalent GML commands. How much "encouragement" does someone need before something becomes obnoxious ?

Running from inside the IDE will be unaffected, the .exe it creates will time out as normal

Pardon me, but this is the first time I've ever heard about that (you didn't even mention anything like that in your "suggestions thread" of a couple of weeks ago) ...

And I'm hearing different times for it. You really want to make that just a few minutes ? What about a full day, so that entousiasts can, for example, take their work to school or friends but cannot actually distribute it ?

As for the "tv-like logo", you already have the GM logo on startup of the executable. Keep that one in place for a few seconds (5 ... 10 will be more than enough) and the people who run the "lite executable" will get the message. If not than those where never potential customers to begin with.

Now I think of it: the before-mentioned selection-screen could be "locked" for a few seconds too. Nothing is more displeasing as having to wait for something (especially on a computer).


Remark: Enticing your (potential) customers to do what you want by, effectivily, being obnoxious is a very tricky way to go. Push it and you lose them forever (posssibly even converting them to "enemies"). If your not doing it enough your company will not be able to grow as fast as some of you guys envision. None-the-less I would suggest to thread lightly.

[makerofthegames]

So the idea is a whole new 8.1, and we'll remove all the older versions so as not to confuse things.

All? As in, all of them? As in, GM1-8.0?
Just want clarification.

Edited by makerofthegames, 31 March 2011 - 11:22 AM.

[sabriath]

we can't keep GM 8.0 lite as if someone does wantto buy,

Reprogram the 8.0 help page and directives to point to 8.1 standard as the upgrade....and make it GM 8.01 on the website. That way it retains all the functionality and use of 8.0 but redirects the upgrading to standard. Heck, even add a submenu button in the 'help' that says "Why should I upgrade?" and have all the features of standard listed.

There shouldn't be any confusion, when you come out with 9.0, are you going to make a lite for that as well and dump 8.1? It would just seem silly to keep having to make 2 versions of software every time you upgrade and have to worry about hacks/subcontractors/etc. It's just a number anyway, slap "8.1" on 8.0 lite and be done with it..when the next version comes out, do the same.

[chance]

You should stick with your original plan. Remove .exe option from the Lite version. Lite users can still play their games within the IDE, and they can share their .gmk files with other GM users.

The only reason people are whining, is because of the unreasonable sense of entitlement Mark created by giving GM away for so long.

[Rani_sputnik]

[quote]
Stand up! Be proud! Be a company!! Charge for standard and give no quarter for the pinchers!!!
[/quote

While I agree with this, I'm pretty sure that is not exactly 'in alignment' with the Game Maker ethic. The pinchers are kinda the target audience. I think you're on to something though Sabriath... I think what Yoyo should do is Not bother to update the lite version. So say Game Maker 9.0 comes out. You have pro and lite, but then as you get 9.1,9.2,9.3 etc with the new updating system, time shouldn't be invested into updating the Lite version unless there is some major compatibility issue or bug that needs fixing. That's just my opinion though

Anyways on topic, I am so glad to hear that removal of EXE's is not ideal. I have pro myself but it doesn't take a genius to realise there would be a lot of hate mail about that. This is what I would like to see.

-> Loading bar and icon are Game Maker Related,
-> Game has to be windowed, viewport has no limit, but the game caption is Game Maker related.
-> Small opaque logo in game window, can be changed in preferences
-> End of game has a Game Maker Splash screen that doesn't have a set time, or it stays for a min of 2 secs. It's simply press close kinda thing...

Yeah so basically what I'm trying to say is that the current proposal sounds good by me.

[ThatGamesGuy]

How about this: not limiting beginners but adding and improving features that advanced users will appreciate? In other words, don't remove stuff at the bottom but add stuff at the top?

[Rani_sputnik]

@ThatGamesGuy - Doesn't that happen already? Data structures, advanced sprite use, 3d.. not many lite sorry, new users would need any of that.

Edited by Rani_sputnik, 31 March 2011 - 11:41 AM.

[Yal]

Remove .exe option from the Lite version... ...and they can share their .gmk files with other GM users.

Pro: they need to convert all their friends to become GM users, meaning more potential customers
Con: they can't reach a big audience, just their friends. Without nursing the dream of making a big app hit they'll likely abandon the program before becoming good enough at it.

Conclusion: I don't think that's a good idea. Removing EXEs in general would remove one of the biggest pros Game Maker has: the power. More or less all the other game making tools that exist are less versatile than Game Maker.

One possible way would be to have two types of Game Maker lite. One could make EXE files, but be a lot more crippled (less functions, for instance xscale, yscale and alpha could be unusable, no room transitions, some things like Colorize Partial and Stretch/Scale in the image editor would be disabled) than it is now. This could make EXEs as well as GMKs. The other version would be the "Game Maker Standard Preview", and more or less able to do everything 8.0 Lite can now - but it would be unable to make EXE files. You would be able to do a GMK with it and import it into GM-EXE-Lite, but when trying to play an EXE with preview functions, you would be alerted that "Fatal Error: This is only available in the standard edition."

How's that? I'd (and many other'd) certainly not like a GM-available-functionality-drop (so in other words, I don't really support this suggestion, I just make it), but perhaps you find it a good idea nonetheless.

Edited by Yal, 31 March 2011 - 11:43 AM.

[Desert Dog]

We use the GameMaker icon.
You can't go SMALLER that a 256x256 room/window size.
We put a "Make with GameMaker" thing in a corner of the screen (let you pick)
The game "title" is forced to something like "Made with GameMaker Lite - http://blah"
GameMaker advert on exit that stays up for 5-10 seconds. (any preference?)
However... We'll also add ZOOM and draw_self() into the Lite version.

Scratch that 'Made with GameMaker' thing in the corner of your screen.

You've already taken the title, the icon, and adding a splash-screen at the end of the game. There's such a thing as over-kill.

I tried other programs before GM, and their free/trial versions had the same overkill features to encourage people to buy. They just drove me away. I found GM which had a little tag up the top in the free edition, the full version didn't seem like purchasing, more like upgrading from good, to greatness. Positive right there from the customers perspective.

You may be encouraging long-time lite users to purchase, but what about the new-comers?

Anyway, this idea up above I like better than the removal of .exe execution, or time-limiting .exe's (ugh!)

However, do think of the negative impact a new user has when he 'tries out' this game making program, and is confronted with all this logo-references. Negative impact? Maybe. Whatever you do, do it tastefully, o.k.?

How about this: not limiting beginners but adding and improving features that advanced users will appreciate? In other words, don't remove stuff at the bottom but add stuff at the top?

Actually, a very good point.

Do you really think said long-term lite user who doesn't feel like they need to register to get data structures, particles, surfaces, 3d, and and the mp_ functions would even bother upgrading versions? It's not like there are many Gm8.1 lite functions that are new to GM8 (if any). I don't think it'd worry him that much.

Edited by Desert Dog, 31 March 2011 - 11:47 AM.

[ThatGamesGuy]

@ThatGamesGuy - Doesn't that happen already? Data structures, advanced sprite use, 3d.. not many lite sorry, new users would need any of that.

I would like to see it happen even more.

[Yal]

I would like to see it happen even more.

It is possible to make texture-less 3D by abusing draw_triangle() and maths. I've actually considered doing that just to show off how much maths I know.

[sabriath]

chance: I would agree, if it wasn't for the fact we know lots of folk use lite for a long time before upgrading. NAL is a prime example of this. They would like to upgrade, but are too young to simply do it themselves, so they have no choice. These are the folk I'm interesting in protecting, not those who simply don't want to upgrade.

YYG can operate monthly/bimonthly/whatever contests for 8.0 lite users and give free upgrades as prizes. That will protect who you want to protect, while still maintaining company freedom to corner the other lite users into upgrading.

[Nocturne]

We use the GameMaker icon.
You can't go SMALLER that a 256x256 room/window size.
We put a "Make with GameMaker" thing in a corner of the screen (let you pick)
The game "title" is forced to something like "Made with GameMaker Lite - http://blah"
GameMaker advert on exit that stays up for 5-10 seconds. (any preference?)
However... We'll also add ZOOM and draw_self() into the Lite version.

As far as I can see, this is the best all-round solution to the problem of encouraging new users without abusing Yoyo good faith...

Oh, and as this is the GMC, you do realise that whatever you do people will complain ...

[oddbob0]

You should stick with your original plan. Remove .exe option from the Lite version. Lite users can still play their games within the IDE, and they can share their .gmk files with other GM users.

The only reason people are whining, is because of the unreasonable sense of entitlement Mark created by giving GM away for so long.

Actually, the reason I'm "whining" is because I want the same outcomes provided that Mike has said he wishes to protect. I'm already paid up for GM, I'd pay again in a shot. I don't feel anyone is entitled to things for nothing but I do think that people should be afforded the right to be able to make games easily because they're the future of really cool things happeningTM. I'd also like GM to continue to play a major part in that happening. If that's entitlement, I'm happy with that and I'll sleep soundly at night.

Which is why I've argued against .exe removal but I'm not going to argue that YYG shouldn't find a way to monetize that *ahem* stuff *ahem*.

Scratch that 'Made with GameMaker' thing in the corner of your screen.

You've already taken the title, the icon, and adding a splash-screen at the end of the game. There's such a thing as over-kill.

I think the benefit of this system is that Mike and co. should find it easy enough to mess things about a bit and do some silent A/B testing and find out what (if anything, natch) improves conversion. I suspect going all out first isn't entirely unwise although I sympathise with your point, obviously.

[Smarty]

I don't understand the line of reasoning here. The EXE export limitation doesn't have to be nearly as restrictive as some portray it to be.

It's currently possible to upload a GMK to the YYG website and have it run in Instant Play. It would make sense to keep the "No EXE export" restriction on Lite, as you have planned it, at the same time allowing Lite users to share their game through the YYG site. You would, however, have to disable downloading the game as an EXE for Lite uploads.

I see two advantages in this. First, Lite users still have the option to share their game with the rest of the world. Second, you'll increase traffic to the YYG website as Lite users will have to refer friends and family to play the game from there, at the cost of installing a plugin only.

Edited by Smarty, 31 March 2011 - 12:05 PM.

[oddbob0]

You can't take Yoyogames.com into school. Or to your #familymember who doesn't have internet access. Or share that game on a private stage.

[makerofthegames]

You're not supposed to be doing Game Maker in school anyway, you're supposed to be learning and studying.