311 replies to this topic

[Yal]

I don't know if you were trying to be funny, but the dialog is just painful to read.

IQBrew, you just cut my pep in half. Without providing anything helpful/constructive at all. In a single line. I've reported you. [s]Unless you elaborate further immediately, I will make more dialogue of the same type just for annoying you. Selfish son of a female donkey.

Edited by Yal, 01 March 2011 - 07:38 AM.

[IQbrew]

IQBrew, you just cut my pep in half. Without providing anything helpful/constructive at all. In a single line. I've reported you. Unless you elaborate further immediately, I will make more dialogue of the same type just for annoying you. Selfish son of a female donkey.

Keep your pants on, I'm going in depth with a video review that won't be ready for awhile.

[Yal]

*

Edited by Yal, 01 March 2011 - 07:37 AM.

[Captain Cook]

Yeah, I was talking about a Soundtrack video (basically one of the songs appended to a static image at minimum, made into a video and uploaded to YouTube).

oh crap the trolls have arrived

[Yal]

oh crap the trolls have arrived

Should I care about what IQBrew says? Is he a respected or resented member?

He's sent me a PM stating that my game score has dropped to 3.7 (which I take is a nice way of saying "I downrated you since you insulted my mother"), that the review will be done tomorrow, and that he's not the minority: "The minority just hasn't spoke up yet". Ended with a smiley. How should I interpret that? In any case, I regretted getting angry and calling him names, and I replied with the following message. I post it here as well, since IQBrew has previously told me that he doesn't bother with most of his PMs.

Am I caring too much about an idiot that just want to stir up trouble, or am I doing the right thing? Never mind, he's not nice enough of a guy. I've added him to my ignore list. You should, too.

Spoiler

I have been an idiot. I've felt bad since I read your first post in the thread, and initially I thought that it was because of what you wrote. But I was wrong. It was because of what I wrote. As I gave thought to what you had written, I realized that I had misinterpreted what you meant. I replied in the belief that you referred to the entire game script, while you likely referred to the chatter outside the truck after you've killed the rats. That part of dialogue could have been better, I admit it - I wrote it before all character personalities had coagulated, so to speak. Perhaps I should change it to something more appropriate later on.

Yet still, you should take at least 10% of the blame for the discussion. Your words was a bit harsh for constructive feedback, and you didn't specify the issue. Same as when you commented on my 3D sonic engine and stated that the graphics were bad without specifying that using 24x32 sprites and stretching them with 3D effects looked horrifying.

I'd say that you are like a floating point number. Some lack of precision.

Edited by Yal, 01 March 2011 - 07:55 AM.

[skunkchop]

Yeah, I don't know what to make of his post.
"I don't know if you were trying to be funny, but the dialog is just painful to read."
He didn't specify anything, and he wasn't replying to anything, so it seems that he was referring to the dialog in general. And I don't get it. WHY is it painful to read.
Yal, I think you were too nice in the spoiler comment. And I don't know what makes you think that he was referring to a specific dialog sequence outside of the truck. I also don't know why you made that comment in a spoiler.
I'm just lost, and I'm clearly missing something, so I'm going to stop talking.

I just finished the cloud area. The Vawe gun is AMAZING. It shoots THROUGH WALLS. I use that for taking out enemies without needing to approach them. I use the ATG Laser to take out enemies that are really far away, or at an awkward angle. I use the Cryo Sphere to get enemies far away on the ground. The Key Gun is good for wiping out a lot of small enemies really fast.
I love that the weapons are unique and are all good for different things. I gotta say, I'm REALLY enjoying the combat in this game. The enemy placement works really well.

By the way, I hope you realize that the original weapon can shoot through up to two blocks if you're standing next to them. I consider this something that allows for cool tactics in the game.

[Zeddy]

I'd say that you are like a floating point number. Some lack of precision.

Nonono, haven't you checked his profile?

Interests: Precision

Still, the dude's making a video review, which I wouldn't bother doing with a game I didn't like (unless I hated it very, very much). Something tells me it won't be too flattering after this exchange, though. Also, how do you downrate people? I didn't know you could do that.

I'll also say that skunkchop pretty much nails it with his praise; the way the weapons work together with the enemy placement is really what makes your games tick. If I ever beat the Kirbyvania demo, I'll get further into that with whatever review I write then. Plus this:

By the way, I hope you realize that the original weapon can shoot through up to two blocks if you're standing next to them. I consider this something that allows for cool tactics in the game.

I like to think I'm playing a 2d cover-based shooter.

[IQbrew]

He didn't specify anything, and he wasn't replying to anything, so it seems that he was referring to the dialog in general. And I don't get it. WHY is it painful to read.

The chatter between the characters in general is annoying. I wouldn't care half as much if I could just skip it, though.
An incredibly vexing conversations about tooth cells comes to mind...

I'm just lost, and I'm clearly missing something, so I'm going to stop talking.

Don't worry, everyone's confused. YAL edited her messages several times to throw us off. Her private messages also go downhill from the one she posted.
Oh, the humanity!

Nonono, haven't you checked his profile?

Haha, I didn't even remember that.
I hope you'll excuse how I'm looking here. Everything in this thread has been from YAL's point of view.

Also, how do you downrate people? I didn't know you could do that.

I can't tell if by "Downrate" she means "Make several accounts and give it a low rating" or "Give it less of a rating than it deserves".
I did neither.

I like to think I'm playing a 2d cover-based shooter.

That's one way to look at it. I see it more like a glitch, though.

YAL, perhaps you could keep the name calling to a minimum? I wouldn't be surprised if a mod mistook it for flaming.

[Zeddy]

That's one way to look at it. I see it more like a glitch, though.

Whether or not an element in a game is a glitch or made by design has really no bearing whatsoever on how fun that element makes the game. In Tribal, a glitch was discovered where you could keep jumping in a downwards hill in order to achieve insane speeds. Rather than 'fix' this bug, the developers kept it in the game after hearing how the fans enjoyed it. I believe it's been an integral part of the game ever since.

Many great videogames moves were born this way. I'm sure someone with any actual knowledge of fighting games will correct me here, but I believe canceling attacks originally was a glitch in Street Fighter. It's not a move that's about to go anywhere anytime soon. Not to mention all the sequence-breaking moves of Super Metroid; nobody wants to see those go anywhere, either.

I'll grant that this particular one isn't as interesting as any of those. No particular skill is required to pull it off, but it is semi-hidden and context-sensitive, making it just one more move in the player's répertoire.

I wouldn't care half as much if I could just skip it, though.

I'm 100% with you here. I don't care how good a cutscene is; unskippability kills replay value and forces players to go through a non-interactive section you can't possibly guarantee they'll like. Even with books, consumers have been able to flip ahead of sections they've found boring.

[hardlylike]

IQbrew didn't like the game, many others liked the game(myself included).
That's why it became featured.


Even the best games in the world got people that can't stand them. IQbrew should be more precise and tell WHY he didn't like WHAT and HOW he would change it so Yal could use the critique and make better games in the future, and he should also say WHAT he liked too. But Yal, he's just one guy of just a few and the majority does like your game. It's actually good that you found someone that didn't like the game because now you have a reason to make a better game. Make it your goal to make IQbrew shut up by creating a game even he can't say bad stuff about. I haven't played your game enough to make a review about it yet but I like it so far. And more people will play the game even if it's rating 3 now because just clicking on the reviews will tell people that this is a game worth trying

The way I see it, it takes two chickens for a chicken fight.

<3

EDIT: My favorite game genre ever "Devil May Cry" was originally going to be a resident evil gme but they found a glitch that makes it possible to "juggle" enemies in the air, and therfor used it to create a completely different game

Edited by hardlylike, 01 March 2011 - 12:05 PM.

[IQbrew]

Whether or not an element in a game is a glitch or made by design has really no bearing whatsoever on how fun that element makes the game. In Tribal, a glitch was discovered where you could keep jumping in a downwards hill in order to achieve insane speeds. Rather than 'fix' this bug, the developers kept it in the game after hearing how the fans enjoyed it. I believe it's been an integral part of the game ever since.

I've heard about glitches becoming features. I think they're called "Ascended Glitches". There's a big difference between being able to jam you gun into a wall and shoot past it and gaining insane speeds by running down a hill, though.

I'll grant that this particular one isn't as interesting as any of those. No particular skill is required to pull it off, but it is semi-hidden and context-sensitive, making it just one more move in the player's répertoire.

Similarly, I'll often get killed by bullets that passes through cover. Enemies often fall into cover too, making them impossible to hit and annoyingly pop up just to shoot me and go back into the floor.

I'm 100% with you here. I don't care how good a cutscene is; unskippability kills replay value and forces players to go through a non-interactive section you can't possibly guarantee they'll like. Even with books, consumers have been able to flip ahead of sections they've found boring.

The gameplay-story ratio is way off, and as I've said the dialog isn't interesting or fun to read. Unskippable cutscenes ruined this game from the start, I'm surprised that very few people had a problem with it.

Make it your goal to make IQbrew shut up by creating a game even he can't say bad stuff about.

Actually, she just achieved that by blocking me. Ah well, she's missing out on some good stuff.

Sorry I'll go back to my closet <3

I don't know how to interpret that.

EDIT: My favorite game genre ever "Devil May Cry" was originally going to be a resident evil gme but they found a glitch that makes it possible to "juggle" enemies in the air, and therfor used it to create a completely different game

Edited Reply to EDIT:
I've heard that story. I didn't know it was true, though.

Edited by IQbrew, 01 March 2011 - 12:10 PM.

[hardlylike]

I don't know how to interpret that.

I just felt like ending rthe post with something random, I don't know why

Actually, she just achieved that by blocking me. Ah well, she's missing out on some good stuff.

if you start to give positive feedback or more detailed critique that she can use instead of just repeating that something is bad in every post without saying why it's so bad, she might change her opinion about you^^

The gameplay-story ratio is way off, and as I've said the dialog isn't interesting or fun to read. Unskippable cutscenes ruined this game from the start, I'm surprised that very few people had a problem with it.

why do you think it's off? I disagree there because I like the characters, how they have different personality, how they react differently, how they develop during the game and the story fits them IMO.
Why don't you think that the dialog is interesting? it's different dialog at different time and I can see that she put thoughts into it, what isn't fun about what part in the dialog and what do you think lacks?
I agree about cutscenes, the player should be able to skip if he/she wants to unless it's a very important part of the story.
I'm not surprised because I myself enjoyed it because I play rpg games mainly because of their story.

Edited Reply to EDIT:
I've heard that story. I didn't know it was true, though.

I love the dmc games so I've tried to find out if it's true, and many sites believe it's true so I think it's true

Edited by hardlylike, 01 March 2011 - 12:48 PM.

[IQbrew]

Why don't you think that the dialog isn't interesting? it's different dialog at different time and I can see that she put thoughts into it, what isn't fun about what part in the dialog and what do you think lacks?

To put it simply, nothing said is ever more clever or interesting than talking about "Tooth cells" or "Coffee". The text scrolls so slowly. And, as I've said, it's all unskippable. Some of my favorite games (Such as Phoenix Wright or 999) are text based, but this game's story simply does not merit the amount of time spent listening to conversations.

I'm sorry, but I can't explain it more clearly than this. I hope you understand.

[Yal]

Actually, she just achieved that by blocking me. Ah well, she's missing out on some good stuff.

I'm doing neither. First of all, Hardylike quotes you, so I'm not missing out on anything; secondly, it's no good stuff.

if you start to give positive feedback or more detailed critique that she can use instead of just repeating that something is bad in every post without saying why it's so bad, she might change her opinion about you^^

I doubt I'll do that. He's not my type. Perhaps I'll unblock him once he starts to come with useful critique. For instance. Say that I accept that the dialogue during the first 15 minutes of gameplay is bad. What would you like to have there instead? Sheesh. A member with "IQ" in his name should understand that this question is always implied when it comes to feedback; if I just remove things rather than replacing them with new things, I end up with an empty file.

Being able to shoot trough two tiles is a glitch; being able to shoot trough one tile by placing your weapon in front of it is not.

I love the dmc games so I've tried to find out if it's true, and many sites believe it's true so I think it's true

What you said was true, but it's not the whole story. I've read an interview with one of the key people behind DMC. Put simply, the developers kinda got bored on making a game that was just the same as their previous game (the first Resident Evil game). They also happened to have a very nice project coordinator who accepted more or less any ideas they suggested, even if they was a little bit off from the original Resident Evil concept. After some time, the game had become vastly different from the original concept, but what they had seemed fun enough to stay on its own. That's when they decided to make some sort of unique game and chuck all the RE stuff overboard.

And... they never told their boss. According to the interview, the first time he got word about the RE2 team making a completely new game was when they showed off the golden master, telling him something like, "Um, well, the game actually kinda ended up like this."



Um, back on topic. Since Zeddi and Hardylike agrees about it, I will add the ability to skip dialogue.

There's a big difference between being able to jam you gun into a wall and shoot past it and gaining insane speeds by running down a hill, though.

I will have in-game mentions about the glitch, thus ascending it.

[Zeddy]

Actually, she just achieved that by blocking me. Ah well, she's missing out on some good stuff.

I'm doing neither. First of all, Hardylike quotes you, so I'm not missing out on anything;

Ah, I remember arguments from my childhood where we'd tell a third party "Tell X that I won't talk to him directly 'cause he's a jerk."

Good times.

[hardlylike]

if you add a skip button to the cutscenes, don't forget to add info somewhere about what the player must do

so for example: if guy A said to player that player need to catch a rabbit and give it to guy B in a cutscene, but player doesn't watch the cutscene... there must be a way to know that player is supposed to catch a rabbit and give it to guy B.

Would be funny tho if the player is punished for skipping the cutscene "HAHAH you skipped the cutscene and now you don't know what to do "....or not

[Yal]

if you add a skip button to the cutscenes, don't forget to add info somewhere about what the player must do

Obviously I should tell the player what the button is.

My plan is: if you skip cutscenes, you will only skip dialogue, you will still see moving characters and stuff - none of the cutscenes are long enough to be very tedious, and those who are always offer you a save point afterwards. So you won't miss very vital stuff (such as characters falling into deep pits).

As well, if you miss something, you can always chat with the NPC you start off nearby after the cutscene ends. Often they say something important (ESPECIALLY Cain in the safepoint).

If you've still missed something because you've skipped a cutscene you'd never seen before, then I have no pity in thee.


When the file lc_clear exists and has proper binary data inside, evidence that the game has been cleared at least one, I planned to have a "Esc to skip" message show up as soon as any dialogue starts or something, so that players will be reminded of this and not get bothered with unskippable cutscenes on their second play-trough just because they skimmed the Primer. They might still miss stuff since some cutscenes change depending on plot tokens (saving Voice, for instance, makes her show up at some cutscenes and alter the events in them) but, heck, I don't care. They can just load their previous save or something if they care. The SKIP feature shalt be used solely to skip cutscenes you have seen. Misuse at own risk.

Edited by Yal, 01 March 2011 - 03:27 PM.

[Zeddy]

Misuse at own risk.

I have this attitude when I add features too. For example, the save-file in RAD is stored in plain-text, so the user can set the volume, resolution, gravity and whatever else to whatever they please. It's not the designer's job to babysit the player or decide what they should like, after all.

Likewise, there's really no need to hold the player's hand objective-wise. Final Columbus' progress is usually linear enough that you really don't need to pay attention to the cutscenes anyway. Just explore places you haven't been and open stuff you're able to open. Not too different from playing Super Metroid.

I'll pre-emptively bug report this, just in case:

Esc to skip

Doesn't escape currently shut the entire game down? I would be extra annoyed if my skipping caused the game to close and have me have to skip it again.

Edited by zeddidragon, 01 March 2011 - 03:42 PM.

[Captain Cook]

Esc only closes the game if it's set to.

That said, I'd recommend a different button.

About the inexperience with language: you type it a lot better than many people on the internet who claim English as their first language. </grammarnazi>

Edited by Captain Cook, 01 March 2011 - 10:24 PM.

[Yal]

Doesn't escape currently shut the entire game down? I would be extra annoyed if my skipping caused the game to close and have me have to skip it again.

I'm glad that you care, but I had actually planned to let ESC open the syspause menu rather than letting P do it (and then turn off "Esc to quit" and "Treat window cross as Esc keypress"). I don't know what kind of alien keyboards the YYG staff are using, but P is one of the hardest keys to press without looking away from the screen in a game that uses ZXC for normal interaction. And looking away from the screen before you pause is less fun than looking away from the screen after you pause, 'specially when in a gauntlet.

So... put simply, I'll take care of that bug before it occurs. I'll also try to add a cooldown so that pressing Esc to skip a cutscene won't bring up the syspause screen right afterwards all the time. That'd be annoying too.

Question: should I re-allow the game to draw the normal Windows window around it, so that people may click the cross to close the game in case they want to do so quickly?

About the inexperience with language: you type it a lot better than many people on the internet who claim English as their first language

Hey, thanks! But honestly, I've learned to spell via Firefox: it has built-in spell control. It won't accept words like "gameplay", "platformer" or "cutscene", though. Kinda annoying, but I know how to spell those already. Oh, and Firefox uses American english standard, so I can't type e.g. colour or endeavour but must use color and endeavor lest I want red lines in my editor . Fun fact: I'm actually able to type without looking at the keyboard, provided I'm at a Qwerty one. I just need to look at the keyboard when I need to type a semicolon (or else I press the Ä key half the time) - guess why I hate C++ and love GML?

Anyway, glad we seem back on subject after the issue yesterday.

================================================

In 2.0, I've changed the title screen to something mildly stolen from Iji. Since I know that some of you (ahem) find my games too loud at default volume, I've gotten the idea to add an options screen.

What options would you like to change? As far as I can imagine, I think that sound volume and windowed/fullscreen default are must-haves; I would prefer not having to have customizable input since I use keyboard_check_direct() at times, but I think I could work it in if a lot of people dreams about using, say, UIK plus WASD instead of ZXC plus arrows.

But are there anything else that could be implemented? I'd like to have at least four options on the options screen.