724 replies to this topic

[9_6]

If Softwrap was broken, I don't think it'd be winning the poll right now.

Taking this poll as proof for anything at all simply doesn't work.
It wins because most people just don't care and because it's a moot choice to some people.

We even had someone who clearly states they don't even use a pc, yet still voted for it.
Then there was someone who voted for it because "it will be cracked anyway".
Furthermore there probably are some people who don't plan on buying it and just want to have it earlier.
And then there are people who see that both choices effectively are the same and just vote for the one that gets them gm8 earlier.
Oh yeah, don't forget the people who don't believe YYG can create a satisfactory solution in 3 months and thus vote for the 'smaller evil'.

You might as well say "If softwrap worked flawlessly, not almost half of the voters would be against it.".

Edited by 9_6, 18 December 2009 - 12:21 AM.

[blopit]

I never had a problem with softwrap, but my friend did but thats because he tried to illegaly download it and kept getting an error message from softwrap when he tried to open game maker. Stick with softwrap, is helps prevent people from illegaly getting game maker pro. DRM management is not favoured but more importantly not minded. No one really noticed when spore came out without DRM, i don't know why its such a big deal. DRM is used to preserve the creators artistic integrity, even though this means limiting the user's access.
BTW sandy is a man
sorry to dissapoint all you spongebob fans out there

[Yourself]

Sandy said herself

I wonder how many more years it'll be before people stop getting this wrong.

[Ampersand]

I agree, the votes are biased in almost every direction. It's hard to get a true answer out of a poll like this. But this isn't for the ultimate decision, this is for Sandy to see what the general consensus is.

[edit]
Really? I feel really stupid on that point now.

Sorry, one of my friend's mom's name is Sandy, so I just assumed.
[/edit]

Edited by Ampersand, 18 December 2009 - 12:23 AM.

[FredFredrickson]

If Softwrap was broken, I don't think it'd be winning the poll right now.

Taking this poll as proof for anything at all simply doesn't work.
It wins because most people just don't care and because it's a moot choice to some people.

We even had someone who clearly states they don't even use a pc, yet still voted for it.
Then there was someone who voted for it because "it will be cracked anyway".
Furthermore there probably are some people who don't plan on buying it and just want to have it earlier.
And then there are people who see that both choices effectively are the same and just vote for the one that gets them gm8 earlier.

You might as well say "If softwrap worked flawlessly, not almost half of the voters would be against it."

My point was that, if Softwrap is was bad as people like Ampersand make it out to be, people woulnd't even consider it. But such is not the case - it has its problems, but overall, people don't seem to mind it that much.

Besides, you're basically saying that some people's votes shouldn't count because they don't have a strong opinion either way, or they'd rather have GM8 quicker, and that's not right.

[Dangerous_Dave]

I wonder how many more years it'll be before people stop getting this wrong.

You can't tell me that whenever you see "sandyd" you don't hear the tune "Look at me, I'm Sandy D..." in your head.

[9_6]

DRM management is not favoured but more importantly not minded.

I beg to differ.

No one really noticed when spore came out without DRM, i don't know why its such a big deal. DRM is used to preserve the creators artistic integrity, even though this means limiting the user's access.

You do realize Spore is a prime example of people minding over DRM? A lot?
Also no, I never noticed EA saying I could take the DVD I bought at full price on release day back to the store to exchange it for a version that doesn't secretly install an incredibly hard to delete program that slowly screws the system over.
Furthermore, spore was in the net before release. Don't even pretend DRM fulfills its purpose.

Besides, you're basically saying that some people's votes shouldn't count because they don't have a strong opinion either way, or they'd rather have GM8 quicker, and that's not right.

What I'm saying is this poll is a joke for various reasons and that you should not use its results to back any of your arguments up.
It simply doesn't work.

Edited by 9_6, 18 December 2009 - 12:45 AM.

[Smarty]

You can't tell me that whenever you see "sandyd" you don't hear the tune "Look at me, I'm Sandy D..." in your head.

Sandra Dee. You did that on purpose, right?

[Dangerous_Dave]

Sandra Dee. You did that on purpose, right?

Of course. I replaced the name from the movie with the similar name of our dear friend Sandy.

[makerofthegames]

Sandy said herself

I wonder how many more years it'll be before people stop getting this wrong.

Internet and genders never mix.

I was suprised when I found out that you were female, but we all go down that road once.

[whgoss]

Don't even pretend DRM fulfills its purpose.

That's a gross generalization, it depends on the DRM just like anything else.

[9_6]

Don't even pretend DRM fulfills its purpose.

That's a gross generalization, it depends on the DRM just like anything else.

I mean the standard securomsoftwrapetc kind of DRM.
What you might want to object to though is that 'its purpose' is anything but clear.
I just assumed that 'preventing piracy' was regarded as its purpose.

Edited by 9_6, 18 December 2009 - 12:46 AM.

[rinkuhero]

Don't even pretend DRM fulfills its purpose.

That's a gross generalization, it depends on the DRM just like anything else.

I mean the standard securomsoftwrapetc kind of DRM.
What you might want to object to though is that 'its purpose' is anything but clear.
I just assumed that 'preventing piracy' was regarded as its purpose.

i don't like drm any more than you do, but the purpose of drm has never been to prevent piracy. it was to make piracy harder, and to delay it being cracked as long as possible, to reduce piracy by a percent, even if it's just a small percent, and even if it's just for a short period. even if that means 3 weeks or 3 days rather than day 1, that increases sales, because 90% of a mainstream game's sales are in the first few weeks. i don't think even the people who make drm believe its purpose is to *prevent* piracy.

i think you're right that sometimes it doesn't even prevent a little piracy, but sometimes it does, particularly for games and software which aren't popular enough to be targets of thousands of people trying to crack it (like spore was). and sometimes it backfires and increases piracy more than it prevents it. but sometimes it really does reduce piracy a small amount. it's just not reliable for that purpose.

Edited by rinkuhero, 18 December 2009 - 12:56 AM.

[Kamina]

I was suprised when I found out that you were female, but we all go down that road once.

Wait what. Yourself isn't a female... I think.

[mcoot]

If Yo Yo Games is truly understaffed to handle a different DRM scheme (besides the fact that nothing to this has been proven, and the entire 'delay' from not using Softwrap is entirely admitted to because they are just behind schedule), then maybe they shouldn't be in the game engine business. If Epic didn't deliver on a contract for using their engine, they wouldn't be able to go "oh, we're understaffed, we'll get around to you."

How many staff does Epic have? A lot more than Yoyo Games - that's for sure.

No, it's not a 'conspiracy'. I've known what Sandy does ever since he worked for Xbox. He knows what he wants and how to get it. I don't want to take the poll down because 'yes' is winning - like it matters, because if Yes wins and they actually use Softwrap, I won't buy GM8 and will actually save money. I'm saying take down the poll because the question is loaded. Most people voting yes, I can guarantee you, are just reading the "faster release date!" part and voting for that.

How is the question 'loaded'. What other choice is there? Conveniently 'forget' to tell us about the YYG wrapper delay until after we've voted. You have no idea of the backlash that would bring.

also, yoyo has more than enough money to pay a full time coder -- remember that they said they invested one million dollars into gm? remember how they said they sold 100,000 copies of game maker in their first year? at 20a⁢p⁢i⁢e⁢c⁢e,⁢t⁢h⁢a⁢t′⁢s2⁢m⁢i⁢l⁢l⁢i⁢o⁢n⁢d⁢o⁢l⁢l⁢a⁢r⁢s.⁢f⁢u⁢l⁢l⁢t⁢i⁢m⁢e⁢w⁢a⁢g⁢e⁢s⁢f⁢o⁢r⁢a⁢n⁢e⁢n⁢t⁢r⁢y−l⁢e⁢v⁢e⁢l⁢p⁢r⁢o⁢g⁢r⁢a⁢m⁢m⁢e⁢r⁢r⁢a⁢r⁢e⁢l⁢y⁢e⁢x⁢c⁢e⁢e⁢d50k a year. 50k is a small chunk of 3000k. now it could be that they spend every cent of those millions, and that they can't spare even a small fraction of that for a simple thing like a dedicated programmer for the application they sell. but i doubt it.

Oh, they have enough money, eh? Read this: 'Unsurprisingly, Yoyo Games are yet to make a profit' (from Game Maker Blog)

[GearGOD]

My point was that, if Softwrap is was bad as people like Ampersand make it out to be, people woulnd't even consider it. But such is not the case

Are you sure?
If atomic bombs were as bad as people make them out to be, people wouldn't even consider them?
If sony's drm rootkit was such a bad idea, people wouldn't even consider it?

[blopit]

DRM management is not favoured but more importantly not minded.

I beg to differ.

An opinion is never meant to be rebuttled

No one really noticed when spore came out without DRM, i don't know why its such a big deal. DRM is used to preserve the creators artistic integrity, even though this means limiting the user's access.

You do realize Spore is a prime example of people minding over DRM? A lot?
Also no, I never noticed EA saying I could take the DVD I bought at full price on release day back to the store to exchange it for a version that doesn't secretly install an incredibly hard to delete program that slowly screws the system over.
Furthermore, spore was in the net before release. Don't even pretend DRM fulfills its purpose.

First, nothing virtuall is unhackable. Second spore is the game that started controversy, microsoft has been using DRM forever before the game.
I'll contact microsoft support to see if I could take the computer in and exchange it for a version that doesn't secretly install a hard to delete program that slowly screws the system over.

Edited by blopit, 18 December 2009 - 01:48 AM.

[9_6]

DRM management is not favoured but more importantly not minded.

I beg to differ.

An opinion is never meant to be rebuttled

Your opinion looked like a statement to me.
Sorry then.

First, nothing virtuall is unhackable. Second spore is the game that started controversy, microsoft has been using DRM forever before the game.
I'll contact microsoft support to see if I could take the computer in and exchange it for a version that doesn't secretly install a hard to delete program that slowly screws the system over.

There has been a DRM controversy long before spore.
Spore was just one of the larger, more recent incidents.
Also I don't understand how your second sentence has something to do with anything nor how it addresses anything what I said.
An OS is not exactly comparable to a program or a game.

Edited by 9_6, 18 December 2009 - 02:02 AM.

[rinkuhero]

My point was that, if Softwrap is was bad as people like Ampersand make it out to be, people woulnd't even consider it. But such is not the case

Are you sure?
If atomic bombs were as bad as people make them out to be, people wouldn't even consider them?
If sony's drm rootkit was such a bad idea, people wouldn't even consider it?

yeah, there are plenty of things which are horrible but which may win in a poll. war is pretty horrible, yet people sometimes vote for people who intend to take the country to war. similarly, a majority of people in the south in the US voted time and time again to keep slavery, and after that, to keep segregation policies. the reason things like that occur is that information is never complete, not everyone has perfect information and makes great decisions, not everyone suffers equally from the horrors or problems of something, so sometimes you get cases where the majority is wrong.

[blopit]

Drm is being used in tv, cds, etc. if many of you have noticed. Not that I expected people to. And yes, those DRM's affect you the same way as it would in a program or OS. I think that companies should have the right to know if their software is being used/bought legally. I can't just go to microsoft and tell them to remove the DRM without them suspecting that their OS (Windows) was bought illegaly and is unliscensed blah blah blah....
I think people are being to general over DRM kind of like racism :S if that made sense. Not completely saying its a good thing. no DRM would be a good thing ofcorse but Yoyo shouldn't stall the sales in a demanding market that would be like stalling a rock concert for an hour just to fix all the mics