724 replies to this topic

[gnysek]

http://gm8.yoyogames.com/ is closed, you cannot download GM8 RC longer. Softwrap won I think.

[sin of nature]

VOTE: NO! on SoftWrap or any DRM.

One of the reasons Schools I visit at and my own University wont buy the pro version. Activating every copy is simply nonsense. Also, we kill our machines yearly (sometimes 6 monthly) and having a limit on installs (even on the same machine) will become a problem to us.

Edited by sin of nature, 18 December 2009 - 03:41 PM.

[NakedPaulToast]

VOTE: NO! on SoftWrap or any DRM.

One of the reasons Schools I visit at and my own University wont buy the pro version. Activating every copy is simply nonsense. Also, we kill our machines yearly (sometimes 6 monthly) and having a limit on installs (even on the same machine) will become a problem to us.

Then those schools should do a little bit of research.

The site licence version of GM 7 doesn't use Softwrap.

[sin of nature]

We enquired about Pro licenses and at no point did they say it had no SoftWrap (reduced price though). Possibly true... but will that also be true for GameMaker 8?

VOTE: NO! on SoftWrap or any DRM.

One of the reasons Schools I visit at and my own University wont buy the pro version. Activating every copy is simply nonsense. Also, we kill our machines yearly (sometimes 6 monthly) and having a limit on installs (even on the same machine) will become a problem to us.

Then those schools should do a little bit of research.

The site licence version of GM 7 doesn't use Softwrap.

Edited by sin of nature, 18 December 2009 - 03:50 PM.

[Smarty]

The site licence version of GM 7 doesn't use Softwrap.

Hmm... Maybe I'll just buy a site license for myself. I shouldn't have any issues installing copies all around the house.

[rinkuhero]

The site licence version of GM 7 doesn't use Softwrap.

Hmm... Maybe I'll just buy a site license for myself. I shouldn't have any issues installing copies all around the house.

i should mention another problem i had -- not with softwrap's customer service, but with yoyo's customer service -- we owned a site license of gm6, and wanted to get that upgraded to gm7. they said you needed to contact them directly to upgrade that since the automated process didn't handle site license upgrades. so after months with no reply to our upgrade request, we just each bought gm7 individually due to being tired of waiting -- still never got a reply. so softwrap isn't the only company with subpar customer service.

i mention this just so you might be wary that buying a site license is a great solution -- since it seems harder to upgrade a site license version than a normal version.

Edited by rinkuhero, 18 December 2009 - 03:52 PM.

[sin of nature]

To be fair to GM support. I've always got answered within 2 days, but must admit a school I deal with insists they never replied to him about a licensing questions (could have been his spam filtering ofcourse). So from a CS point of view, I've not had too many issues on that front.

[FredFredrickson]

Per Sandy's instructions, I'm going to close this topic and poll soon, since the vote is likely not going to change much from this point. If you have anything else to say here, say it now!

[dadio]

I'd just like to say thank God it's YES

Woot! Roll on GM8!

[sin of nature]

I'll counter that with... its a sad day, I'd prefer the software not to be plagued with DRM protections.

Would also be nice if a YoYo offical could confirm that the GM8 site license with not have this DRM disease within its coding. Cant wait to get my hands on V8 though.

[Smarty]

Per Sandy's instructions, I'm going to close this topic and poll soon, since the vote is likely not going to change much from this point. If you have anything else to say here, say it now!

Okay, closing statement:

Open Internet polls are worthless opinion indicators because of their ultimately skewed and biased sample, and should for that fact alone never be used in a business decision. I can't imagine YYG doesn't know this, and can't surpress the idea that the one goal for this poll was to make the community an accomplice in the choice for Softwrap, and any issues that may come forth from it in the future.

[broadsword]

Open Internet polls are worthless opinion indicators because of their ultimately skewed and biased sample, and should for that fact alone never be used in a business decision. I can't imagine YYG doesn't know this, and can't surpress the idea that the one goal for this poll was to make the community an accomplice in the choice for Softwrap, and any issues that may come forth from it in the future.

100% agree with this statement. Its unfortunate but that's life I guess. Long live game maker!

Edited by broadsword, 18 December 2009 - 04:40 PM.

[e_barroga]

I love New York!

[flexaplex]

Perhaps YYG's just made the poll to check that everyone was not completely against softwrap, as they made such a mistake with the logo they could be questioning their own judgement a little?

I don't really think YYG's would think up the idea (or really care) of having a poll so the community justifies their decision to use softwrap. People tend to like believing in conspiracy theories though.

Edited by flexaplex, 18 December 2009 - 04:44 PM.

[RandomBlackMage]

Per Sandy's instructions, I'm going to close this topic and poll soon, since the vote is likely not going to change much from this point. If you have anything else to say here, say it now!

Okay, closing statement:

Open Internet polls are worthless opinion indicators because of their ultimately skewed and biased sample, and should for that fact alone never be used in a business decision. I can't imagine YYG doesn't know this, and can't surpress the idea that the one goal for this poll was to make the community an accomplice in the choice for Softwrap, and any issues that may come forth from it in the future.

So now whenever someone complains about Softwrap, I can imagine the reply being something like this, "Well, the GMC voted for it, blame them. I was all for waiting 3 months for our personal solution, but they just had to have it "

[oddbob0]

Per Sandy's instructions, I'm going to close this topic and poll soon, since the vote is likely not going to change much from this point. If you have anything else to say here, say it now!

Okay, closing statement:

Open Internet polls are worthless opinion indicators because of their ultimately skewed and biased sample, and should for that fact alone never be used in a business decision. I can't imagine YYG doesn't know this, and can't surpress the idea that the one goal for this poll was to make the community an accomplice in the choice for Softwrap, and any issues that may come forth from it in the future.

Entirely agreed.

[dadio]

@ Smarty:
Awww - such a killjoy
...
...
...
(You're right of course, 110%)

@rinkuhero:

if true, that feels like a sneaky ulterior motive

Lol, I would have thought that was obvious? I said much the same thing myself somewhere in this topic... this was all just about sugarcoating Softwrap as much as possible & getting us to swallow - the "vote" kinda ties our hands in the massive QQs that are inevitably around the corner... lol...
just look at is as part of the fun!
*shrugs*...
not like we offered any real alternative!

Now...
it's time to PARRRRTYYYY!!!

Edited by dadio, 18 December 2009 - 04:57 PM.

[rinkuhero]

Okay, closing statement:

Open Internet polls are worthless opinion indicators because of their ultimately skewed and biased sample, and should for that fact alone never be used in a business decision. I can't imagine YYG doesn't know this, and can't surpress the idea that the one goal for this poll was to make the community an accomplice in the choice for Softwrap, and any issues that may come forth from it in the future.

mkidder mentioned this earlier too. if true, that feels like a sneaky ulterior motive. i hope it isn't true, but it does seem possible that they had already made their decision, and knew the poll would turn out the way it did; i mean, impatience is always going to win out, because less than half of people have had problems with softwrap, although a significant number still have.

my hope is that, seeing that (basically) 43% of people have issues with softwrap, and knowing the 57% of people will buy it regardless with or without softwrap, but those 43% of people might not buy it with softwrap, they'll decide that 57% of sales isn't as good as 100%.

[RandomBlackMage]

Perhaps YYG's just made the poll to check that everyone was not completely against softwrap, as they made such a mistake with the logo they could be questioning their own judgement a little?

If that was the case, they wouldn't have dangled that little "3 months sooner" bit in front of our noses. Chances are this was to get us to agree to having Softwrap, nothing more.

[FredFredrickson]

Per Sandy's instructions, I'm going to close this topic and poll soon, since the vote is likely not going to change much from this point. If you have anything else to say here, say it now!

Okay, closing statement:

Open Internet polls are worthless opinion indicators because of their ultimately skewed and biased sample, and should for that fact alone never be used in a business decision. I can't imagine YYG doesn't know this, and can't surpress the idea that the one goal for this poll was to make the community an accomplice in the choice for Softwrap, and any issues that may come forth from it in the future.

I completely agree as well - but insofar as helping to keep people informed about the decision, and making sure there won't be the same backlash as the original new logo had, a poll is just a good a tool as any other.

I think that YYG truly wanted to have their own DRM solution set up for GM8, but the completion of GM8 didn't sync up properly with the DRM. Understandably, they want to get the new version of the program out, and they had to make the decision: break the original promise, go with Softwrap, and get GM8 in time for holiday 2009 or keep the promise and wait until spring / summer 2010 to release GM8, even though the program itself was finished late 2009.

So yes, the poll is more a vessel to deliver the news, and to verify with the community that Softwrap will be okay for now, as opposed to being any real decision-making tool. With work already done on the in-house DRM, I doubt they're just going to scrap it, but whether or not it will be used in the near future remains to be seen. I'm sure that for YYG, it sucks to have to go back on a promise like this, because it can weaken people's trust, but as far as the future of Game Maker development is concerned, it might be more important to hit the holiday release schedule.

I don't think there was any sneaky ulterior motive going on here - I really believe that things just didn't work out as planned, YYG is just as anxious to get GM8 out as the community is to use it, and this was a sacrifice that wasn't made lightly.

I was looking forward to a non-Softwrap version of Game Maker myself, but Softwrap never gave me big enough problems for me to get upset about their using it again. I just hope that the YYG DRM tool is completed at some point, and that we can transition over to that (or no DRM at all) in the future.

my hope is that, seeing that (basically) 43% of people have issues with softwrap, and knowing the 57% of people will buy it regardless with or without softwrap, but those 43% of people might not buy it with softwrap, they'll decide that 57% of sales isn't as good as 100%.

As Smarty stated, the sample of votes in this poll are completely biased and skewed in any number of directions. Additionally, these numbers don't represent a large number of people, the question was not about whether one had problems with Softwrap or not, and many may have voted 'no' simply because they disagree with the idea of DRM in general. So taking the poll results to mean that 43% of the entire user base of Game Maker had problems with Softwrap is just not intuitive.

I wouldn't be surprised if the actual percentage of people who had problems with Softwrap was far lower than 43%, but then, that really depends on what one would consider a problem.