297 replies to this topic

[chance]

Youth and leisure are very different to what they were 20 years ago, as is the state of society and (western) humans.

Sure, pops. Whatever you say.

Since the dawn of time, adults have claimed the "youth of today" are going downhill. They blamed rock and roll, then pop culture... and now video games.

They never realize that it's just their own delusion.

The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants...

- Socrates (470 – 399 BC)

So relax. The kids are alright.

.

Edited by chance, 29 March 2011 - 09:10 PM.

[HazardGenocide]

If Video Games are so bad, than i guess Watching TV is bad too.

[twelveways]

Youth and leisure are very different to what they were 20 years ago, as is the state of society and (western) humans.

Sure, pops. Whatever you say.

Since the dawn of time, adults have claimed the "youth of today" are going downhill. They blamed rock and roll, then pop culture... and now video games.

They never realize that it's just their own delusion.

The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants...

- Socrates (470 – 399 BC)

So relax. The kids are alright.

.

Do you honestly believe that youth and culture are exactly the same as they were in Socrates' time or twenty years ago even? It is not their delusion, every generation is different, this is partly because of the changes in society and partly because of an inbuilt rebellious facet to our personalities.

Just look at the figures for things like gun crime, stabbings, rape, drug use and drug sales and check out the ages, then find the same figures for 20 years ago. Pretty much every news agaency reports that youth crime is rising all the time, as is gang related crime and school violence.

Im not saying that Videogames are responsible but they are surely an influence, the difference between a VG and a movie is that in a movie I can watch somebody shoot another person, in a videogame I am taking the role of that person.

[Madidus]

All my friends, including me, have played games since the day we were born. I even got my first console before I turned 1(Sega Genesis, in case you wonder.) None of us are stupid today, in fact, I think we're smarter than the other guys which we went to school with (seemed that way back then atleast.) The only draw back I can see, is that if you play for extended periods at a time, just playing day in and day out, you might become socially awkward, but that's only if you choose virtual over reality. As a side note: All modern FPS games improve the ability to percieve contrasts, no matter how much mindless slaughter there is in the game. The military (amongst others) have used this in their training. It also improves the sense of direction and short term memory, the research showed.

[Styris]

I Think playing games will not cause any low intelligence to the mind . I have seen lot of cases where people have felt an increase in their Intelligence because these are based upon your thinking how to play , what the next action to be done . But I will also say that Excess of every thing is bad .

Edited by Styris, 30 March 2011 - 07:23 AM.

[twelveways]

All my friends, including me, have played games since the day we were born. I even got my first console before I turned 1(Sega Genesis, in case you wonder.) None of us are stupid today, in fact, I think we're smarter than the other guys which we went to school with (seemed that way back then atleast.) The only draw back I can see, is that if you play for extended periods at a time, just playing day in and day out, you might become socially awkward, but that's only if you choose virtual over reality. As a side note: All modern FPS games improve the ability to percieve contrasts, no matter how much mindless slaughter there is in the game. The military (amongst others) have used this in their training. It also improves the sense of direction and short term memory, the research showed.

Since the day you were born?

[Madidus]

Well, three days after I was born, to be exact. Not that I remember it, but I've been told by my parents, and I've seen photos. Haha, I sense your jealousy.

Edited by Madidus, 30 March 2011 - 07:36 AM.

[twelveways]

lol whatever. Holding a controller and looking at the screen is not the same as playing a game.

Cognitive development and physical dexterity are no way near high enough at that age to play any kind of game.

[Madidus]

lol whatever. Holding a controller and looking at the screen is not the same as playing a game.

Cognitive development and physical dexterity are no way near high enough at that age to play any kind of game.

Alright, I'll rephrase myself. I've been playing games as far back as I can remember. Happy?

[makerofthegames]

Im not saying that Videogames are responsible but they are surely an influence, the difference between a VG and a movie is that in a movie I can watch somebody shoot another person, in a videogame I am taking the role of that person.

You are finding a connection when there is none. You have nothing to backup your ridiculous conclusion, so it's all crap. Please, before you say something idiotic again, at least try to make it sound believable.
I would call you out for trolling, but I wouldn't put it past you to be actually believe this garbage.

Edited by makerofthegames, 30 March 2011 - 09:45 AM.

[Zeddy]

Just look at the figures for things like gun crime, stabbings, rape, drug use and drug sales and check out the ages, then find the same figures for 20 years ago. Pretty much every news agaency reports that youth crime is rising all the time, as is gang related crime and school violence.

Crime didn't rise; we're just getting better at measuring it.

If you look at the crime rates for 100 years ago I'll bet they're nonexistent.

Edited by zeddidragon, 30 March 2011 - 09:54 AM.

[chance]

Just look at the figures for things like gun crime, stabbings, rape, drug use and drug sales and check out the ages, then find the same figures for 20 years ago. Pretty much every news agaency reports that youth crime is rising all the time, as is gang related crime and school violence.

The University of Virginia (their page) compiled these stats based on the U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, National Crime Victimization Survey.

They show the opposite trend. Youth crime is decreasing over the last 20 years, returning to its historical levels.

Juvenile Arrests for Homicide

Link: http://youthviolence...le-violence.jpg

Here's the long-term trend (from the US Government Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention)





Assaults arrests have increased slightly from their historical levels, but probably due to better enforcement.

[makerofthegames]

I knew it, it's my parents to blame! My grandparents were right!

[Codifier]

How exactly has this thread gone from a discussion regarding whether gaming can have a negative effect on intelligence to yet another argument about whether games and violence are related?

Edited by Codifier, 30 March 2011 - 02:34 PM.

[twelveways]

Fair enough, I was wrong about the crime rates. Sorry.

My original argument was that society, within the very recent past (50 or 60 years), has undergone some massive changes and one of these changes is the way that the youth spends their leisure time. In general, children 20 years ago or more spent much more time in the company of other people and much more time having to use their imagination to have fun than children today.

There are may reasons for this and I believe that computer games are one of the results of this as well as one of the causes.

Im not against computer games in any way (but Im also not against drugs, copyright infringement and censorship), I dont believe that computer games, violent movies, pornography, drugs, alcohol or tattoos are solely responsible for crimes, weirdos or massacres but I do believe that combinations of these things, plus a number of other factors, can be.

Edited by twelveways, 30 March 2011 - 04:33 PM.

[Andy]

they are surely an influence,

You can’t just make a statement without backing it up with hard evidence.

the difference between a VG and a movie is that in a movie I can watch somebody shoot another person, in a videogame I am taking the role of that person.

You need to show why the interactive nature of video games makes them more influential. What if the opposite is true? What if they are less influential because they are interactive?

[twelveways]

they are surely an influence,

You can’t just make a statement without backing it up with hard evidence.

On June 25, 2003, two American step brothers, Joshua and William Buckner, aged 14 and 16, respectively, used a rifle to fire at vehicles on Interstate 40 in Tennessee, killing a 45-year-old man and wounding a 19-year-old woman. The two shooters told investigators they had been inspired by Grand Theft Auto III.

In December 2007, 17-year-old Lamar Roberts and 16-year-old Heather Trujillo were accused of beating a seven-year-old girl to death. They are said to have been imitating the moves taken from the game "Mortal Kombat".

In June 2008, four teens allegedly obsessed with Grand Theft Auto IV went on a crime spree after being in New Hyde Park, New York. They first robbed a man, knocking his teeth out and then they stopped a woman driving a black BMW and stole her car and her cigarettes.

On April 14, 2009, 9-year-old Damori Miles of Brooklyn, New York City died after jumping from his apartment roof using a makeshift parachute in an imitation of Jeff Hardy in WWE Smackdown vs. Raw 2009.

[makerofthegames]

That's a pitiful argument twelveways, one which can be debunked fairly quickly. Crazy people can be set off by anything, be it videogames or anything else.
EDIT: Oh wow, I didn't even need to bring that argument out, I just read through your post and it seems that the video games aren't even closely related to most of them, just that they saw something in the game and tried it out. In that case, we should ban wikipedia because they have descriptions of fighting styles too. The kids were crazy, just because they may have imitated a video game doesn't mean the video game made them crazy, or made them do it. Or even influenced them to do it.

Let me put it this way, say I want to go kill someone today. I'm an insane teenager and I'm going to kill someone. Okay, now that we got that out of the way, let's say I saw a specific way to use a knife in a video game, and I kill someone doing it like that.

The video game wouldn't have influenced me to kill anyone. See what I mean?

Im not against computer games in any way (but Im also not against drugs, copyright infringement and censorship), I dont believe that computer games, violent movies, pornography, drugs, alcohol or tattoos are solely responsible for crimes, weirdos or massacres but I do believe that combinations of these things, plus a number of other factors, can be.

(emphasis added)
How do those lead to violence exactly?
I mean, my opinion on either of them aside, I don't see it.

Edited by makerofthegames, 30 March 2011 - 07:00 PM.

[twelveways]

ok mate, I'm not really bothered enough about it to have an argument. You have your opinion, I have mine. Whatever.

All I know is that when I play Pro-Evo, it makes me want to play football. If I play PGR then I want to drive fast and when I play Minecraft for a long period I see in blocks for hours afterwards.



RE tats and porn:
Feminist groups often say that porn incites violence towards women, conservatives often say that porn=depravity. Im not googling for you, in my opinion it is common knowledge.

As for tattoos, it is well known that pretty much every prisoner gets tattoos, watch pretty much any movie or go and visit your local prison for proof. In many cultures and subcultures, organised crime gangs are known by their tattoos. Also this http://pediatrics.aa...full/109/6/1021

Edited by twelveways, 30 March 2011 - 09:01 PM.

[Crollo]

If Video Games are so bad, than i guess Watching TV is bad too.

They actually really used to say TV was EXTEMELY BAD FOR TODAYS YOUTH AND ITS A BIG MASSIVE DISTRACTION AND ITS SOOOO TERRIBLE. But then.... Gaming happened.


And then the big fat soccer moms in charge of the "YOUTHS TODAY" industry went "OH MY GOD WE CAN'T BLAME TV ANYMORE!!!" and just started blaming games instead.