85 replies to this topic

[rinkuhero]

Proof that it works!!! Here (USD = US dollars $$$! ):



Okay!!! Here's a way to make money with your games!

First, you must be at least 18 and have experience making games! I suggest you make great freeware games first! If you have made a free game with over 50,000 downloads, you could probably be successful selling games too!

Second, make a great game! Not just great by Game Maker standards, but a polished game that can compete with the games on sites like http://manifestogames.com!

Third, give your game a website and set up an e-commerce provider like Plimus, BMT-Micro, or eSellerate! They take around 10% of the sale price and in exchange do digital download, credit card transactions, and even mail you a check each month!

Fourth, market!!! There are many ways of marketing, like press releases, offering review copies to reviewers, advertising, forum posts, and hundreds more, use whichever work for your game!

Fifth, constantly learn from others who create also shareware games! A great site to learn from is http://indiegamer.com! Read almost everything on that forum, and ask questions when you're confused!

That's it!

(EDIT: I actually meant to place this in the distribution forum, feel free to move it there, moderators. Sorry for the mistake. Although it's also sort of a comment to the community about the flood of uninformed topics about making money with games in that forum )

(EDIT 2: Here's a real guide I wrote up, rather than a joke guide: http://studioeres.co...games-shareware)

(EDIT 3: As Tarik points out, keep in mind this was the work of a team, over a 6-month period, and probably less than minimum wage would have earned. There are people who make a living at this, but you will probably not make a living at it for your first game. I don't think anyone actually would, but just as a precautionary warning, don't quit your day job and decide to make money through Game Maker exclusively or anything.)

Edited by rinkuhero, 29 November 2008 - 07:03 PM.

[Carnivac]

Second, make a great game! Not just great by Game Maker standards, but a polished game that can compete with the games on sites like http://manifestogames.com!

Right, I can't find a single game on that site I would actually pay money for, yet the indie games I would happily pay for have mostly been free anyways. I offered to give Ultimortal some money for Iji but he wouldn't take it even though that's the sort of game I would give £20 or so to own. I gave a a lil bit of money to Cactus and YMM for some things I can't remember exactly what for (was a while ago now) and they've made consistently good games.

How do you know if you've made a commercially viable indie game if you actually can't stand most of the indie games that are commercial? Or is that it? Do I have to make a game I hate? If that's so I may as well be pixelling for mobile phone companies again and detesting what was my hobby/outlet once more.

Maybe I can make just the one blatantly mainstream casual commercial game with quickly done bland photoshopped graphics just to get a lil bit of extra income. Heck I dunno.

[rinkuhero]

Right, I can't find a single game on that site I would actually pay money for, yet the indie games I would happily pay for have mostly been free anyways. I offered to give Ultimortal some money for Iji but he wouldn't take it even though that's the sort of game I would give £20 or so to own. I gave a a lil bit of money to Cactus and YMM for some things I can't remember exactly what for (was a while ago now) and they've made consistently good games.

How do you know if you've made a commercially viable indie game if you actually can't stand most of the indie games that are commercial? Or is that it? Do I have to make a game I hate? If that's so I may as well be pixelling for mobile phone companies again and detesting what was my hobby/outlet once more.

Maybe I can make just the one blatantly mainstream casual commercial game with quickly done bland photoshopped graphics just to get a lil bit of extra income. Heck I dunno.

That's a good question/observation actually. I actually agree with you, but I think we're the exception, most people don't have as high standards, so by "great" I just meant something like "better than the average commercial indie game".

In the last few years I've only bought around 5 games. I used to buy many more when I was younger, perhaps I had lower standards then. I think it's also about resistance to addiction. When we first started playing games it was easy to become addicted to this game or that, but after we've played hundreds or thousands of games we develop an immunity to becoming addicted to particular games, causing us to see playing those games and buying them as less attractive than we used to. Today I wouldn't buy 90% of the games I bought when I was younger.

Edited by rinkuhero, 27 November 2008 - 01:41 PM.

[Carnivac]

That's a good question/observation actually. I actually agree with you, but I think we're the exception, most people don't have as high standards, so by "great" I just meant something like "better than the average commercial indie game".

Fair enough. I felt my post might have come across a lil too bitter or fed up (been a rough week) and I know I'm perhaps more of a purist of the 8/16 bit era of gaming which is why my own projects don't tend to be anything revolutionary or creative but aim to be just solid gaming fun with (hopefully) well pixelled graphics that aim to recapture the feeling I used to get when playing a good well made 2D game as a kid back in the 80's and early 90's. And I think you're right in that most of the people buying these games don't really feel the same way and seem to look for different. I think the closest commercial game I've seen to what I would like is Noitu Love 2 which is of a high level of polish and has nice pixel art (although the overly cute style of the graphics, and the mouse control scheme turned me off the game completely I can still appreciate the quality of the work involved).

[rinkuhero]

Fair enough. I felt my post might have come across a lil too bitter or fed up (been a rough week) and I know I'm perhaps more of a purist of the 8/16 bit era of gaming which is why my own projects don't tend to be anything revolutionary or creative but aim to be just solid gaming fun with (hopefully) well pixelled graphics that aim to recapture the feeling I used to get when playing a good well made 2D game as a kid back in the 80's and early 90's. And I think you're right in that most of the people buying these games don't really feel the same way and seem to look for different. I think the closest commercial game I've seen to what I would like is Noitu Love 2 which is of a high level of polish and has nice pixel art (although the overly cute style of the graphics, and the mouse control scheme turned me off the game completely I can still appreciate the quality of the work involved).

I agree, Noitu Love 2 is actually on my to-buy list, I knew I had to buy it when I first played the demo. The problem with commercial games like that (nostalgic, pixel-art based, etc.) though is that they have a harder time commercially, for a number of reasons. I think a lot of the reason casual games sell is that their audience is new to games, they don't yet have an immunity to being addicted by simplistic gameplay that other people have. But hopefully nostalgic-style games can still do well; my next game does use more pixel-art than my last, and has more of a retro feeling to its gameplay, although not as much as Noitu Love.

Although in general if you're going to make commercial games I feel it's just best to make the games you enjoy. People who make casual games they don't enjoy don't succeed as much as those developers who actually enjoy casual games, so it's probably a bad idea to make a game outside of your element, so to speak. I made a TD game because I played a lot of Starcraft TD mods and Flash TD games over the years and enjoy that sort of gameplay. My next game is Zelda-like because I enjoy that sort of gameplay too.

(So perhaps we could rephrase it like: think of the best indie games you've played (in your case, Noitu Love 2, etc.), and when you can make a game as good as those, or better, then you know it could be commercially viable.)

Edited by rinkuhero, 27 November 2008 - 02:31 PM.

[Ebonic_and_Nightwisp]

Proof that it works!!! Here (USD = US dollars $$$! ):



Okay!!! Here's a way to make money with your games!

First, you must be at least 18 and have experience making games! I suggest you make great freeware games first! If you have made a free game with over 50,000 downloads, you could probably be successful selling games too!

Second, make a great game! Not just great by Game Maker standards, but a polished game that can compete with the games on sites like http://manifestogames.com!

Third, give your game a website and set up an e-commerce provider like Plimus, BMT-Micro, or eSellerate! They take around 10% of the sale price and in exchange do digital download, credit card transactions, and even mail you a check each month!

Fourth, market!!! There are many ways of marketing, like press releases, offering review copies to reviewers, advertising, forum posts, and hundreds more, use whichever work for your game!

Fifth, constantly learn from others who create also shareware games! A great site to learn from is http://indiegamer.com! Read almost everything on that forum, and ask questions when you're confused!

That's it!

(EDIT: I actually meant to place this in the distribution forum, feel free to move it there, moderators. Sorry for the mistake. Although it's also sort of a comment to the community about the flood of uninformed topics about making money with games in that forum )

hmm....I like what I read so far....So what about investments? E.G. hiring of a concept or pixel artist?

[Tarik]

It was quite interesting to follow your great adventure Rinku. I have to applaud you for your efforts and successes. However it might be nice to either be more elaborate in this topic, or point the members of this community to your earlier documentation (specifically your forums.)

This is because you are currently simply stating it's possible to make money. I think we can all agree on that point. You haven't mentioned here however that you have spent quite a bit on advertisement, that it took many manhours in a joint effort from multiple members to get the 7k. The only data you provided that doesn't give the wrong impression, in my opinion, is the period of selling, which is over one and a half year.

Now don't get me wrong, again, you are one of the few pioneering GM users in the commercial market. Not the first, but definately one of them. You've been very fair in your business, provided a quality game and put a lot of effort into it. You also were kind enough to share your experiences and sales approach with us, something rarely done. But the way you wrote this first post is very misleading, I know it's unintentional, but atm it looks like you made a profit of 7k, while you really have to deduct your costs, and then divide it by the combined manhours invested by your team, then put it in the timeframe and likely conclude that even though it was an amazing academic experience, it was a financial disaster. (In terms of comparing your income to the same hours invested on a job of your team member's educational level.)

Now I'm not saying it was your intention to make a living off of this project. But for everyone out there who's interested in doing so, it'll take a lot more. Either way, thanks for your efforts Rinku, you have truly done a great job!

[2Dcube]

First, you must be at least 18 and have experience making games! I suggest you make great freeware games first! If you have made a free game with over 50,000 downloads, you could probably be successful selling games too!

Hey, that's me!

Maybe I should give this a try. Even if it won't sell much it would be a good experience.

Very interesting. Please elaborate more on this or tell me where I can read more! : )

Edited by 2Dcube, 28 November 2008 - 04:01 AM.

[Schalk]

Proof that it works!!! Here (USD = US dollars $$$! ):



Okay!!! Here's a way to make money with your games!

First, you must be at least 18 and have experience making games! I suggest you make great freeware games first! If you have made a free game with over 50,000 downloads, you could probably be successful selling games too!

Second, make a great game! Not just great by Game Maker standards, but a polished game that can compete with the games on sites like http://manifestogames.com!

Third, give your game a website and set up an e-commerce provider like Plimus, BMT-Micro, or eSellerate! They take around 10% of the sale price and in exchange do digital download, credit card transactions, and even mail you a check each month!

Fourth, market!!! There are many ways of marketing, like press releases, offering review copies to reviewers, advertising, forum posts, and hundreds more, use whichever work for your game!

Fifth, constantly learn from others who create also shareware games! A great site to learn from is http://indiegamer.com! Read almost everything on that forum, and ask questions when you're confused!

That's it!

(EDIT: I actually meant to place this in the distribution forum, feel free to move it there, moderators. Sorry for the mistake. Although it's also sort of a comment to the community about the flood of uninformed topics about making money with games in that forum )

Finally, someone posting ways on how to make money that actually know what they are talking about. Thanks for sharing!

Any chance you could maybe tidy your first post up a bit.

[MMORPGguy]

Wow, this actually looks useful, unlike everything else like this that I've seen.

[Ebonic_and_Nightwisp]

Wow, this actually looks useful, unlike everything else like this that I've seen.

It definetly is useful but it is to...

hmm...How can I say this?

...Brief

[Broxter]

First, you must be at least 18 and have experience making games! I suggest you make great freeware games first! If you have made a free game with over 50,000 downloads, you could probably be successful selling games too!

Hey, that's me!

Maybe I should give this a try. Even if it won't sell much it would be a good experience.

Very interesting. Please elaborate more on this or tell me where I can read more! : )

Yeah, I really really really think you should do this. Simply having your name on the game will get you many sales. You don't even have to make an awesome game. And everybody loves a bit of revenue.
Go on 2D! Sell some games and make some lurvely cash.

- Broxter

[rinkuhero]

Thanks for all the nice comments, sorry I didn't respond right away: I made the post and then went to Thanksgiving dinner at my sister's house, and our car died on the way and we had to get it towed and take the train back.

Sure, I'll tidy up the post and explain it if you want, but this post was actually meant as kind of a joke (making light-hearted fun of all the inexperienced people offering crazy ways to make money making games in the distributions forum, with their overuse of explanation marks etc.). If anyone really wants and could use a more extensive tutorial rather than a joke-tutorial, I'll write one up in the distribution forum.

There's a *lot* to know though, I recommended reading everything on indiegamer.com forums for a reason. There are probably hundreds or thousands of bits of information that you'd need to absorb in order to do this successfully, which is why the best way is to learn gradually, one tutorial can't cover it all. I'm still learning.

Edited by rinkuhero, 28 November 2008 - 10:43 AM.

[gangstar59]

yeah u make 2d cube rich
like idea

[Milo-]

Nice thread, just a word of warning though: Like some people already said, don't expect to sell your game without inverting a single dime on it and absolutely make SURE your game isn't bad before inverting money in it. I can't stress this enough, if you are not sure if your game is good enough, go to forums (Preferably, not here. People will criticize you more as a GM programmer instead of criticizing your game. You want the later.), upload a demo, let people criticize it and if you take their criticism and improve whatever is wrong with your game, go to ANOTHER forum (People tend to not be as harsh the second time you ask them for criticism) and repeat. I remember this guy in another forum that wanted to sell a game maker game that quite honestly sucked, he had inverted about 1000 dollars in it and the only thing he got was a few laughs and probably one copy sold to a guy that just wanted to laugh at the game some more. Either that or he was a good troll, but my point stands.

[King Killa]

Nice thread, just a word of warning though: Like some people already said, don't expect to sell your game without inverting a single dime on it and absolutely make SURE your game isn't bad before inverting money in it. I can't stress this enough, if you are not sure if your game is good enough, go to forums (Preferably, not here. People will criticize you more as a GM programmer instead of criticizing your game. You want the later.), upload a demo, let people criticize it and if you take their criticism and improve whatever is wrong with your game, go to ANOTHER forum (People tend to not be as harsh the second time you ask them for criticism) and repeat. I remember this guy in another forum that wanted to sell a game maker game that quite honestly sucked, he had inverted about 1000 dollars in it and the only thing he got was a few laughs and probably one copy sold to a guy that just wanted to laugh at the game some more. Either that or he was a good troll, but my point stands.

So you have experience with selling games, then? Who says you NEED to spend money on your game? Some people are great at graphics/music and use these to advantage along with simple gameplay. You don't always need to invest money into your game when you can easily do the whole thing on your own.

As for selling games, I'd have no clue.

[rinkuhero]

All you really need to invest is hosting costs. But you can get that for moderately cheap, only a few dollars a month. You also probably should buy the Pro version of GM for $20 too. But besides that, you don't really need to invest any money at all to sell GM games. You can invest a little, and it may help, but you can do a lot of marketing for free, and selling games doesn't really cost anything. Immortal Defense made $1000 in its first month without me investing anything in it besides the two things mentioned (hosting costs and GM). I did invest some money in advertising later, but I suspect that that money didn't make back more than I spent on it. I still do spend a little bit advertising, though, but not that much.

[TeeGee]

Hey!

Rinkuhero is unable to post because of the double-posting policy, but he actually wrote a guide on selling indie games to answer your request. Here's the link:

http://studioeres.co...games-shareware

However, don't expect it to walk you by hand from making Pokemon fan games to successful life as indie developer . I think the intention is to give you some basics and encourage you to do some research on your own. It isn't all that hard when you put some effort into it.

Edited by TeeGee, 28 November 2008 - 04:52 PM.

[pedrosorio]

I've finally decided to buy ID so you can add a few bucks to that, rinku.

[rinkuhero]

Thanks! BTW, we're working on a Portuguese translation of the game, I email that to you when it's done, so you can play the game in both English and Portuguese. A friend of mine did the translation, and another friend and my father (who was born in Brazil) are proofreading it. I don't know if Brazilian Portuguese is too different from Portugal Portuguese though, but I'd assume they'd be mutually intelligible, kind of like American and British English?