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Something Rotten In The State Of Mashable...


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#1 Guest_YoYoJim_*

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 03:27 PM

Hi Peeps,

I've had a frustrating day.

Mashable announced the nominees for the Open Web Awards today. We were feeling pretty confident as, thanks to your support, we had a pretty respectable 25% of the nominations by my count.

You can see where this is going, despite our handsome share of the nominations, and all your help, we weren't one of the ten nominated. I posted on Mashable asking why, and they've all but accused us of fiddling the vote. Which of course we didn't do, frankly with the support of this community behind us it would have been pointless. I'm still not sure what the truth is, whether it was a honest misunderstanding or something more sinister - hopefully all will become clear.

Anyway, just letting you all know, as promised, where we stand in the Open Web Awards. For now it doesn't look great.

Still, onwards and upwards.

If you as angry as I am (unlikely :P ), you can share it with the world, the story has already been submitted to DIGG.

-Jim out

#2 BrandMan211

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 03:37 PM

That's terrible. I really hope no one actually nominated twice. You know, what if someone has a sibling who likes the site? I've constantly tried to get my sister into GM as well, and I assume some other people have too. They'd share the same IP, that doesn't mean they are the same person!

Edited by BrandMan211, 13 December 2007 - 03:39 PM.

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#3 Waffles

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 03:59 PM

Seems that they fail, i wonder why none of the lesser sites got DisQualified. Because they didn't get as many votes?

It's obvious that some people will vote from the same IP as others. If [edit] the multiple votes from the same person [/edit] is true, It's not fair to D/Q due to some n00b voting multiple times that we didn't want, you just remove all offending votes.

The number of votes (in theory) is directly proportional to the number of votes from the same IP address.

Edited by Waffles, 13 December 2007 - 04:01 PM.

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#4 Gupocca

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 04:07 PM

This is really terrible! The title on Digg seems to be a fairly good one: "Open Web Awards Rigged?!". The sites with more members and also with a great site deserve to be nominated.


Hopefully this can get worked out... :P
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#5 FredFredrickson

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 04:27 PM

I have a hard time with this one, because it's essentially a larger version of my complaints about a certain individual sending out hundreds of emails to get votes for the GMA... but I have voiced my support for YYG, on both Digg and Mashable.com. Hopefully they come to their senses and realize that the mistakes of few shouldn't affect the outcome of the entire vote.
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#6 darkshado

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 04:42 PM

You must be absolutely gutted. It's insane that they'd do that, maybe if they knew the size of this community they might reconsider their stance. Anyway good luck with the appeal.
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#7 Guest_YoYoJim_*

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 04:55 PM

You must be absolutely gutted. It's insane that they'd do that, maybe if they knew the size of this community they might reconsider their stance. Anyway good luck with the appeal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


No chance of us being in the competition sadly. I just wanted to get an explanation. And I largely have - it just wasn't very well organised.

On top of that, Mashable seem to have blocked my account now :P

#8 darkshado

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 05:03 PM

You must be absolutely gutted. It's insane that they'd do that, maybe if they knew the size of this community they might reconsider their stance. Anyway good luck with the appeal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


No chance of us being in the competition sadly. I just wanted to get an explanation. And I largely have - it just wasn't very well organised.

On top of that, Mashable seem to have blocked my account now :P

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You don't even get the chance to argue your case? Perhaps they should change the name from the Open web awards to something more appropriate.
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#9 Tepi

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 05:06 PM

I don't think this was a mistake, there is lot of stupid people around :P.
I hope you learned something. shame on you, spammers.
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#10 FredFredrickson

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 05:39 PM

I don't think this was a mistake, there is lot of stupid people around  :lol:.
I hope you learned something. shame on you, spammers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If anything, they learned that if they don't want someone in the competition, all they have to do is constantly vote for them. :P
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#11 Joerdgs

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 07:12 PM

Blame it on the internet. A blessing and a curse in one package... :P
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#12 Shadeplay23

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 07:40 PM

How could we not make it in the top ten? YYG is huge! With all the support in the GMC, we should've done great! :lol: :P
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#13 Aertcz

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 08:09 PM

Really. How great can mashable be and how important must have this "competition" been if any user can post a comment which is later counted by a human to determine the victor? The voting method was very unsecure and unprofessional. The Cage Match is more secure than that voting process....

I doubt YoYo would have increased a lot more customers by winning the thing anyways. Nothing was stated on what the victor gets. A pat on the back and possibly a whole 3 new members? I am guessing YoYoJim is the head of web relations (medium between YoYo and GMC, big influence with the YoYo website, etc.). With that said, I think Jim should be trying to find much better places to represent YoYo.

Suggestion: Try contacting game websites such as Bubblebox.com, Acid-Play.com, Gamehippo.com, Newgrounds.com, and other such sites to try and work out an advertisement deals with them. Those are the places which gamers go to, since they are game websites...
Perhaps we can work at a bargain with a game website of some sort. I don't know, I am not a YoYo representative.

I am not trying to flame or put anyone down. I am simply stating my opinion and I thought I'd drop in my two cents.
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#14 garionw

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 08:18 PM

But does it really matter?

so what, you miss out on one award. There are plenty of others to choose from.
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#15 t3mp3st

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 08:30 PM

You must be absolutely gutted. It's insane that they'd do that, maybe if they knew the size of this community they might reconsider their stance. Anyway good luck with the appeal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


No chance of us being in the competition sadly. I just wanted to get an explanation. And I largely have - it just wasn't very well organised.

On top of that, Mashable seem to have blocked my account now :P

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yeah, nice way to 'take responsibility'. It's easy to be responsible for something when there's no consequences when you screw up.

Usually in real life, when you screw up with your responsibilities, you fail, are fired, are replaced. A seemingly insincere apology doesn't do.

Before this contest, I haven't ever heard of mashable. Now I'll just pretend I never heard of them.
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#16 FredFredrickson

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 08:43 PM

Before this contest, I haven't ever heard of mashable.  Now I'll just pretend I never heard of them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Haha, I'll second that. Their website looks like garbage anyway. :P
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#17 Peter Brouwer

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 08:48 PM

If anything, they learned that if they don't want someone in the competition, all they have to do is constantly vote for them.  :P

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So if we want yoyogames to win, we all have to vote like maniacs on the competitors besides yoyo. Hmm, that's a way too :lol: .
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#18 Aertcz

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 08:54 PM

Wow, I guess people changed their minds about mashable after they read my comment?
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#19 felpman

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 09:04 PM

Before this contest, I haven't ever heard of mashable.  Now I'll just pretend I never heard of them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Haha, I'll second that. Their website looks like garbage anyway. :P

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who's idea was it to have a light gray background? :lol:
And, with a reputation like their's I don't think they're going to be around much longer.
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#20 NakedPaulToast

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 10:05 PM

Wow, I guess people changed their minds about mashable after they read my comment?


You have an uncanny ability for self importance.

Did it ever dawn on you that people's opinion of mashable changed when they saw the inept way that this competition has been handled.

I disagree with how mashable handled their competition, it just stinks of incompitance and now has zero credibility. However, one can't help but wonder what the role of the GMC's general ignorance played into it.

Mashable's talking head, cited two reasons that yoyogames voting habits brought negative attention to themselves.
  • Multiple votes from the same IP address
  • Non-stop voting after the voting deadline passed.
Regarding the multiple IP voting, some of it was explained by James, and I consider it a reasonable explanation. However, I have no doubt that there still was other's who did try to stuff the ballot box. Many GMC members seem to have a history of ballot stuffing, this has been demonstrated numerous times in the cage match competitions.

The voting past the deadline also demonstrates how so many fail to apply common sense. In fact, I commented precisely on this in the original topic. Didn't do a lick of good, in fact some responded, to just keep on voting.

Edited by NakedPaulToast, 13 December 2007 - 10:19 PM.

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#21 Aertcz

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 10:14 PM

@NakedPaulToast
Read all the comments above my first post, then read all the comments below my post.

Edited by Aertcz, 13 December 2007 - 10:16 PM.

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#22 Yourself

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 10:19 PM

@NakedPaulToast
Read all the comments above my first post, then read all the comments below my post.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Okay, I don't know the answer to this riddle. What's the difference? The only person who replied both before and after your post was FredFredrickson.
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#23 Revel

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 10:19 PM

Well thats too bad :) Maybe someone was fiddling with the votes.

Anyway there will be more award sites and stuff.


An another note, i am glad you are getting to be pretty active on the forums.

Edited by Revel, 13 December 2007 - 10:20 PM.

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#24 Aertcz

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 10:22 PM

@Yourself
Before my first post, it was more of a sympathy and grievance based attitude and afterwards it was more of scew mashable attitude... However NakedPaulToast likes to single me out every time I post to make me feel like an idiot. I am sure he is a perfect person in his perfect little world.
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#25 KC LC

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 10:25 PM

Irrespective of whether Aertcz was first to state it, he's certainly right.

This contest and its operators have been discredited by this fiasco. So whoever wins will have a hollow, meaningless victory.
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#26 erthgy

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 10:26 PM

mashable is a freaking noob site, I hope that YYG realizes that mashable is only giving you a hard time because they are part of the group of programmers who hate game maker (no idea why).

Edited by erthgy, 13 December 2007 - 10:33 PM.

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#27 Aertcz

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 10:30 PM

Uh. I don't quite understand that. YoYoGames has a few programmers that are working on programming GM8? Programmers here which develop games basically make their company.... I don't get why they would hate programmers :)
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#28 Stubbjax

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 10:32 PM

mashable is a freaking noob site, I hope that YYG realizes that they're only giving you a hard time because they are part of the group of programmers who hate game maker (no idea why).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Where did you get that information from?

Uh. I don't quite understand that. YoYoGames has a few programmers that are working on programming GM8? Programmers here which develop games basically make their company.... I don't get why they would hate programmers :)


He means it this way:

YYG realizes that Mashable only giving YYG a hard time because Mashable are part of the group of programmers who hate game maker (no idea why).

Wow! In the minute that I edited my post, there were 3 new posts there!

Edited by stubbjax02, 13 December 2007 - 10:34 PM.

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#29 erthgy

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 10:33 PM

NO, I meant mashable hates gm because of... nvm see above post I edited..
to make more sense..
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#30 BrandMan211

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 10:33 PM

How could we not make it in the top ten? YYG is huge! With all the support in the GMC, we should've done great! ;)  :)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Somehow, Mashable is bigger.

Really. How great can mashable be and how important must have this "competition" been if any user can post a comment which is later counted by a human to determine the victor? The voting method was very unsecure and unprofessional. The Cage Match is more secure than that voting process....

Agreed. For the love of god they could have at least closed the topic.

Before this contest, I haven't ever heard of mashable.  Now I'll just pretend I never heard of them.

If anyone manages to find an option that lets us close our accounts, let's mass close them to show we don't support this piece of junk.

because they are part of the group of programmers who hate game maker (no idea why).

...Mind showing us where you got this idea? If this is valid, we could challenge their decision with that.
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#31 t3mp3st

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 10:33 PM

@Yourself
Before my first post, it was more of a sympathy and grievance based attitude and afterwards it was more of scew mashable attitude... However NakedPaulToast likes to single me out every time I post to make me feel like an idiot. I am sure he is a perfect person in his perfect little world.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


It all depends on who it is who's posting. My mind to say screw (or perhaps mash would be a good word here) Mashable, was made up after reading the links YYJ provided, not after reading your post.

Who or how popular Mashable is makes little difference to me. I have no problem with YYG not making the Top 10. I do have a problem with YYG not making the Top 10 due to these accusations. Even if there was a small few who tried to stuff the ballot, those votes should have been discounted, not all of them. I know for a fact, my IP was there, and only once. I'm sure I am not the only member who's on a static IP and cast there vote within not only the rules, but rules that didn't exist as well.

What's worse is YYJ's sudden inability to post there. It would be one thing if he flew off the handle, but he remained calm and cool with every question. The only thing that's keeping me from venting over there, is respect for Mark's decision on the matter.
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#32 Aertcz

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 10:38 PM

Understood. Very good point t3mp3st. Making the top 10 would have been somewhat nice and uplifting for the users here at GMC and especially YoYo. However disqualification on our end gives us the reverse of what our intentions were (to give YoYo a good name).
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#33 erthgy

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 10:43 PM

[quote name='BrandMan211' date='Dec 13 2007, 06:36 PM']
[quote name='Shadeplay23' date='Dec 13 2007, 02:43 PM']
...Mind showing us where you got this idea? If this is valid, we could challenge their decision with that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/quote]
Listen, all I'm saying is something funny is going on because YYG was kicked out of 2 competitions,

unless if there were hundreds of votes (or some other large number) per Ip address then all I am saying is some thing's going on that's a little fishy...
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#34 BrandMan211

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 10:46 PM


...Mind showing us where you got this idea? If this is valid, we could challenge their decision with that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Listen, all I'm saying is something funny is going on because YYG was kicked out of 2 competitions,

unless if there were hundreds of votes (or some other large number) per Ip address then all I am saying is some thing's going on that's a little fishy...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But how do you know those two sites are related...there's no proof in that.

Edited by BrandMan211, 13 December 2007 - 10:46 PM.

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#35 FredFredrickson

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 10:49 PM

I think their being removed from this competition (and another one, if you are correct?) would probably be due to an overly enthusiastic fan-base spamming the sites with votes... not a huge anti-YYG conspiracy. If you read the posts made by the admin in the Mashable.com link YoYoJim provided, you'll see that this was why they were removed from this competition.

Edited by FredFredrickson, 13 December 2007 - 10:49 PM.

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#36 erthgy

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 10:50 PM

Edit: nvm, see fred's above post

Edited by erthgy, 13 December 2007 - 10:51 PM.

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#37 SNWrestler

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 11:05 PM

Yoyo should demand a recount
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#38 pgg

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 11:45 PM

That wouldn't help, they were disqualified.
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#39 paul23

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 11:55 PM

Irrespective of whether Aertcz was first to state it, he's certainly right. 

This contest and its operators have been discredited by this fiasco.  So whoever wins will have a hollow, meaningless victory.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the whole "web 2" stuff is going to turn into a fiasco!

As you can see here there will always be "trolls" and people who can't behave themself. (or actually they think they behave themself, but we don't see that as "proper behaviour").
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#40 homebrewpc

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 12:08 AM

Yoyo should demand a recount

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Then we'd be like Florida. Anyways, with a community of thousands...how could they think we "gamed the results"?
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#41 ~Dannyboy~

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 03:24 AM

Sorry for bumping the old topic (didn't see this one :) )

Anyway after reading this I believe we have two options

1. just let it lie ;)

2. swarm their site with demands for a recount (making sure we don't use the same IP's at all) and see what happens :P

Before you do this I would like someone from yoyo to say if it's a good idea or not (I don't want to be stuck with the responsibility of suggesting it)
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#42 gmXpert2000

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 03:36 AM

Hi Peeps,

I've had a frustrating day.

Mashable announced the nominees for the Open Web Awards today. We were feeling pretty confident as, thanks to your support, we had a pretty respectable 25% of the nominations by my count.

You can see where this is going, despite our handsome share of the nominations, and all your help, we weren't one of the ten nominated. I posted on Mashable asking why, and they've all but accused us of fiddling the vote. Which of course we didn't do, frankly with the support of this community behind us it would have been pointless. I'm still not sure what the truth is, whether it was a honest misunderstanding or something more sinister - hopefully all will become clear.

Anyway, just letting you all know, as promised, where we stand in the Open Web Awards. For now it doesn't look great.

Still, onwards and upwards.

If you as angry as I am (unlikely  :) ), you can share it with the world, the story has already been submitted to DIGG.

-Jim out

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow Jim, I'm truly sorry about this.

We'll be ok though. ;) YYG is a great games site and community, possibly one of the best for how long it's been around, and your community supports you.

Edited by gmXpert2000, 14 December 2007 - 03:46 AM.

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#43 SNWrestler

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 04:04 AM

Sorry for bumping the old topic (didn't see this one :) )

Anyway after reading this I believe we have two options

1. just let it lie ;)

2. swarm their site with demands for a recount (making sure we don't use the same IP's at all) and see what happens :P

Before you do this I would like someone from yoyo to say if it's a good idea or not (I don't want to be stuck with the responsibility of suggesting it)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yes rebelling is a great idea

Yoyo or blood, thats what I always say
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#44 Abras

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 04:22 AM

Before this contest, I haven't ever heard of mashable.  Now I'll just pretend I never heard of them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Haha, I'll second that. Their website looks like garbage anyway. :)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who's idea was it to have a light gray background? :P
And, with a reputation like their's I don't think they're going to be around much longer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, I bet those grapes are sour anyways guys ;)

Anywho, I wouldn't worry about it. It doesn't seem like it will effect the GMC in the least, unless we let it. So why should we?
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#45 ~Dannyboy~

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 04:24 AM

Yes rebelling is a great idea

I know I started it but mabey not, The latest news is that they're (yoyo, cr8buzz and mashable) negotiating and hopefully come to an agreement. So I think we should leave it to the pros.
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#46 FredFredrickson

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 04:54 AM

*sigh*

The reason why YoYo Games was disqualified, according to the guy who made the decision himself, was due to a supposed vote spam. What in the whole wide world do you think spamming their website now would prove? If anything, it would just make them feel justified in their decision to exclude YYG.

It's great that many of you feel strongly about this, but I really suggest you don't grab your torches and pitchforks and spam people's sites every time you suspect an injustice. It's juvenile, and it reflects poorly on you, and the Game Maker community. And I'd like to think we could handle this in a professional / mature way, and not like some sniveling brat who didn't get to play because the big kids said so.

Edited by FredFredrickson, 14 December 2007 - 04:55 AM.

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#47 Aertcz

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 04:58 AM

Nice analogy. I can't really add much to that, however what you said is very true. (I agree)
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#48 NakedPaulToast

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 05:45 AM

If Mashable wants to restore *some* credibility to their pisant little contest, they should still consider YoYoGames and Cre8Buzz for the "judge's award" seeing that they are no longer a consideration for the voting awards.

I posted the following in the topic thread on mashable:

You broke your own rules for determining nominations:

The rules specifically stated:
"(2) The number of *unique* nominations will be taken into account in determining who makes the voting round."

You did not consider the "*unique*" nominations.

As it stands now, you have disqualified what appears to be the two leading sites. As it stands, your contest completely lacks any credibility.

It is my understanding that each category, will have two winners, "one “People’s Choice” and one “Judge’s Choice” from each category."

Since the voting has started, and it would be unfair to the current nominees, then may I suggest YoYoGames and Cre8Buzz, still be considered as candidates for "Judge's Choice".

This would not disadvantage the current nominees, as they are currently enjoying a voting process without two strong candidates.

A letter from you to the judges, indicating that you had inadvertently disqualified them and asking them seriously consider them would restore some credibility.

This is the kind of thing that demonstrates "taking responsibility", not running around saying "you can blame me".


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#49 Mark Overmars

Mark Overmars

    Game Maker Creator

  • YoYo Games Staff
  • 805 posts
  • Version:Unknown

Posted 14 December 2007 - 11:35 AM

Dear all,

We appreciate the way you all care but I think we have to put this behind us now.

We are in touch with the guy responsible. He realized their mistake and he is willing to help us in other ways. Obviously it is impossible at this stage to change their nominations.

Realize that Mashable is an important and influencial site so we don't want this to turn into a fight between YoYo and Mashable. So don't start doing stupid things like spamming.


Mark
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Mark Overmars, YoYo Games, www.yoyogames.com

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#50 Guest_YoYoJim_*

Guest_YoYoJim_*
  • Guests

Posted 14 December 2007 - 01:17 PM

Hi Guys,

Final word on this topic.

As Mark has said Mashable have been in contact with us and I'm now pretty sure the whole thing was an unfortunate mistake.

We definately want to keep sweet with Mashable so I'd urge you all to leave it here.

That said your help with this whole debacle so far has been invaluable, thank you all so much for the support. Let's move on.

-Jim out




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