87 replies to this topic

[Self_titled]

u cant say that ppl shudnt make clones are easy games its what game maker was made for. so ppl with limited programming or game design skills can make games if you want to make perfessional games learn to prgram and use C++ or java. I personally think its amazing what some ppl can do with game maker considering this fact.

RTS games take a lot of time to play and most ppl just arnt willing to spent loadsa time playing a gm game

[greatchase]

Yeah, i gotcha about the the clones being easier to create than good games. I personally think there should be two forum pages for games finished. 1 for take offs and one for original game ideas. Then the people who don't want to look at horrible games don't have to

Also, i tryed looking for those games u guys mentioned, but I couldn't find em'
... could some1 plz post a link? thanks.

[drazzke]

I't night help people find the kinda games they are looking for, a forum for original games...

Edited by drazzke, 01 December 2006 - 04:24 PM.

[th15]

I don't really think that it's simply because RTS games are hard to make. On the whole, the bar has been set pretty high for the genre. It's very hard to even do up an interface that can match blockbuster RTS games that the average player is used to. Hell, even pathfinding can be a gigantuan headache on it's own.

Furthermore, RTS games tend to be the most code-heavy of all games since they require a large amount of AI scripting, GUI finesse, complex game mechanics, and above all, somehow gel everything into a contigous experience. The artwork too can add up really quick.

But, I do think that in the end it's just because of how hard it is to code a RTS engine that meets the very-high expectations set by the market. Even commercially released indie RTS games don't get very far. RTS games have a strong tendency to either be a lasting hit or crash and burn very quickly.

[Tera4d]

I have tryed to create a rts to but my interest dyed
The coding itself isnt that hard.
But i the gfx one building usually has 6 sprites (construction) they are hard to create. ( for me because i do it all on my own )
I think rpg is the hardest to create look at oblivion look at that massive playing world and a.i system and you can talk to ppl its very very well coded.

[th15]

Oh yes, the coding isn't that hard if you just want one unit to go there when you right click. But getting 24 units to go there without getting in each other's way, avoid obstacles, form an intelligent formation, engage enemies and display the massive amount of information available about the units all at once, real fun.

RPGs aren't as complex. I'm not saying they require less work, RPGs have traditionally been the least effective in terms of time spent coding vs play time because you have to script everything. It's just that scripting everything isn't all that difficult. Oblivion and GTA are exceptions since they use emergent gameplay to extend playtime as far as possible, but there's still plenty of content creation. However, the code that you use in RPGs typically aren't rocket science.

[bendodge]

You dont really have to encourage people to do this. The problem is most programmers of the GMC lack an artist who will make original sprites for them for a whole game. Thus that cant really make a fully polished oringinal game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is the plain answer to most game-quality complaint on the GMC. Good art is very, very hard to come by. I suspect most of the budget on commercial games goes to artists.

[Self_titled]

actually most of a commerical budget goes to the testing teams. game programmers get paid more than game artist too enen no the artists role is very important.

[darktemp7]

sprites. I always stop programming on a game because I don't have sprites... I even tried starting an rts team on gmg and it went for a month and we had 0 sprites. So it stopped.
If a dedicated programmer and a dedicated spriter worked together, that would be a good team, even if it's only two ppl, but those ppl have completely different things to do, so you never get overlapping work.

[irregular]

What I started doing.....

[OmicronGamer]

Above: What I am doing

I am going to make a controversial claim: RTS games are not difficult nor time-consuming to make.

Now I will explain it: The main difference between the development of a GM rts and a GM platform game is that most of the time devoted to levelmaking in the platform game must be devoted to the engine in the RTS. Other than that, their development time can be rather similar.

[Yosh66]

^^^^

your not making an RTS are you...

My RTS (which il start back on in awhile) actually started to smooth out, but putting 50+hours into every update just for pathfinding and adding 1 unit was pretty annoying.

That and making voxels is pretty time consuming

[SanMan]

I would actually have to agree with OmicronGamer to some extent. It seems to me that people just assume that rts's take forever and are really hard because there arent many out there. The problem I think is that a large majority of people on the GMC are fairly young. Those that have tried it might have found it really hard because they dont understand how to plan a game properly and want to rush to finish it. If you spend time to plan it game should be done in less time then if you didn't. People just need to remember not to aim too high when doing the pathfinding and the ai. You can't expect to match what a professional team does without any training in that area,

My RTS (which il start back on in awhile) actually started to smooth out, but putting 50+hours into every update just for pathfinding and adding 1 unit was pretty annoying.

Over fifty hours to update the pathfinding and to add a unit sounds a bit too much. Adding new units shouldn't take to much time. With a good parenting structure it should be as easy as assigning a few variables and making some sprites. Of course if the unit has a special ability that would take a little longer. For your standard melee unit or ranged attacker though the longest part would usually be spriting and sounds.

[bendodge]

Path finding and collisions are the hardest part of an engine, but the biggest problem is sprites.

I can't even finish a space shooter game. The engine is finished, with nice special effects and such, but I can't get one dedicated spriter to make consistent graphics.

But anyway, I think sprites are the biggest deterrent.

[th15]

What I find annoying in GM when making my RTS is the lack of multi parenting. Having that would have saved me a LOT of headache and made my parenting trees so much simpler.

I've gotten around the need for sprites by just biting the bullet and doing it myself. My games are almost all me (except for sounds, but there's no shortage of free sounds available).

It takes time and it's no fun but you can't jsut sit around and wait for someone else to do it all for you.

Edited by th15, 02 December 2006 - 01:09 PM.

[Kaleta]

I don't like RTS games much. Even the perfect Dark Hive was quite stressing for me. That is why I don't care about a lack of RTS games.
But I like originality. How people can make hundreds of Mario clones, without being taken to hell immediately? How to get rid of senseless japanese-like RPGs, with the most boring fights ever? Random fights just with choices like Attack/Wait/Cast spell/Run are too simple, specially when an "enemy" is just one sprite. Even in-game items like "The Mightiest Sword Of mAss Destruction" are just represented by their name and few statistics.
I'd love to show you a full power of my RPG, which is in my signature and unfortunately in a foreign language.
So, those who seeks an originality, can just look at my recent project, Coreador.

[OmicronGamer]

>>>>yosh66: That is an RTS game.

[Galacticdramon]

RTS games are often complex. By their very nature, RTS games have a lot of different elements to attend to. To develop an RTS game with a lot of features requires a lot of time and attention, especially if it is a one-person development team, just like RPGs. It is by no small coincidence that there are very few decent examples of either on the GMC. The sheer scale, whetehr assumed or actual, of the time and attention involved puts a lot of people off. Most RTS games have massive credits sections in their instruction manuals. A good RTS isn't a weekend job. It takes time and it takes effort.

You have to calculate and program elements such as unit balancing, resource balancing and a relatively effective learning curve, and on top of that you might want to create a map editor. It's not quick and it's not simple. That's why we don't see many of them on the GMC.

[Yosh66]

take a joke omicron...

well i was overexaggerating what i did in those 50 hours .. its not that hard to add a unit, other than the fact that I started the engine when i wasnt that fluent in GML so its kind of screwed up in comparison to projects now

[dawrr]

Here's my take:

In my opinion, RTS games are the toughest to make. I'm not saying that RPGs or FPSs are easy to program, but they are the least complicated many times. In an RTS, there are so many variables for each unit that RAM is really needed more than ever.

Unit design is a pain
Weapon design gets gruellingly tough

I'm making a weird RTS/RPG game and I'll tell you one thing: The AI (if it even constitues as AI) is EXTREMELY tough to make. Having the enemy build up and then attack is tough. Very tough.