87 replies to this topic

[greatchase]

Okay, I've been pretty active in the GMC for about 2 years now. I am just coming back to it after exploring other interests. I was gone for about 3 months trying out other game enigines, and decided that although they have more "proffesional" looking final products, I just simply don't have a long enough attention span to work on one game for 3 or 4 years.

The reason I am saying all that is because while I was on other forums and the such, I noticed something that I honestly havn't on the GMC. There was variety!!!
There are basicly 3 or 4 genres that the GMC works on, and that is all:

1. Stupid take-offs of good games that the GMC just makes worse.
2. Annoying "original" RPG games. (I have counted 500+ of those )
3. Some of the worst platform games I have ever played in my life.

Before you all get defensive, I would like to say that there are some exceptions to that. For example, Hover Tank 3D by Fred. (I must say, I played the game about 4 months ago and did not belive it was made by Game Maker.)
Also, there truly are some original RPG and Platform games made that are better than alot of Game Boy Games I played when I was little.

All I am saying is, COME ON PEOPLE!!! Think outside the box once in a while. I have seen VERY good games made by people on the GMC that get horrible feed-back because they don't fit what they were "expecting".

I would really like to see some variety in this place. It might give the GMC some "life". God knows it needs it.

Okay... enough of my hypocritical views on the GMC, and on to my main reason for this post. In all my two years of browsing the GMC "WIP" and "Finished Games" section, I have only seen 3 TOTAL RTS games. Two were in the WIP section, both were side scrolling and one was made by me, so that dosn't really count. The third was a half-way decent game, but with no menu screen or story line. Just 3 levels that were kind of repetative and very glitchy.
The main reason I think that RTS games are not made right now is that the only way you can find out how to make one is to look under the "Games" section and then click on "Version 6 editable games", then download The Dark Age, Commando and Conquistare, or Mars: Final Conflict This is a real pain because then you need to look under the code and try to find out basicly how it is done. Honestly though, the first time I looked at the code I had no idea where to start and got overwhelmed and quit the game, giving up hope of ever making an RTS

Here is my idea:
1. As of now, try to add more "pizzaz" to the basic every day games. NO MORE FRIEKING CLONES!!!
2. Try to encourage others to branch out. It is notany harder to make an original game, and way more people will wanna play it.
3. Heck, let's start having contest for the best game in the genre made for that month. Also, we could have another catagory of "Originality". I would be willing, on my website FandJGames.com to put up the page, and every month update it with a brief description of the best game in each genre and put a download link! I mean, what do we have to lose? It might enspire some newcomers to the GMC to try it out and test their skills.
*If you like the idea, plz post your comments, or PM me, or whatever. If I get enough positive feedback on the idea, I will put it up.*

4. Not sure yet, will think about it more and slowly update....


What do you guys think about my two cents on the matter? Like I said many times, I am not saying ALL games on the GMC are bad! I'm sure that there are plenty that are original, fun, and all around good games! Just most...

Edited by greatchase, 26 November 2006 - 05:56 PM.

[LOLBNOL]

There are very few RTSs because RTS is one of the hardest genres to create games for, and very few people have enough dedication and patience to both master the required skills and stick to one project long enough to finish it. The most common games you'll find are also the easiest to create. That's just the way it is, and realistically you're highly unlikely to change anything.

[greatchase]

That is not true. I have seen plenty of completely finish, highly polished clones and take-offs on the GMC the past 2 years. It is just that some people belive clones games are fun to make: "Oh boy! I really loved that mario game! Now let's see if I can make something better than 30 Japanese guys working 7 days a week for 4 years could!" - I guarentee that thought is behind almost every clone the GMC has

Edited by greatchase, 26 November 2006 - 01:43 PM.

[davidp]

All I am saying is, COME ON PEOPLE!!! Think outside the box once in a while.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did it ever crossed your mind, that maybe some find RTS games hard to make, like you nicely mentioned for yourself?

Why are you talking to GMC generally? Why don't you give it a try, maybe learn it?

Sorry but you saying that is hard and adressing other people at GMC to do it, is just stupid.

David

[Takagi]

1. Bug the crud outta Mark to make a tutorial on how to make RTS Games.

I actually was sort of happy about your post until I saw that bit.

You want Real Time Strategies? I'll show you some!

There are three here which you mentioned
See "Purper"
Imperial Domination, not really RTS, but it is a strategy game
Medieval Clash

There are RTS'es out there, you just need to look for them.

[WarlordWill]

I am working on a RTS right now. It is very hard, and I do ask other people for help, but I think it will be decent when I'm done. Even though I've been working on it for a week now, I already think it has the general makings. You can select units and gather resources, and attack the enemy. It is not that hard once you get going, it's just how much patience you have when working on a game. This RTS could easily take me another year, but it's the type of game I've wanted to make since starting up Game Maker.

[tkg]

As of now, try to add more "pizzaz" to the basic every day games. NO MORE FRIEKING CLONES!!!

Dude the majority of people here are probably under the age of 16 i would say. Second part of that is making a clone is a huge way to learn the basics of gamemaking. So you shouldnt bash people for learning, its part of the learning process probably 90% of people on the GMC has made a clone at one time or another.

Try to encourage others to branch out. It is notany harder to make an original game, and way more people will wanna play it.

You dont really have to encourage people to do this. The problem is most programmers of the GMC lack an artist who will make original sprites for them for a whole game. Thus that cant really make a fully polished oringinal game. (Ive ran into that problem a few times) Either that or its the other way around and your a spriter with an ideal and nobody wants to make the game you made sprites for.


Everyone knows that the GMC has some things that we all wish it wouldnt. Personally I wish the game design forum would thrive more(Because thats my favorite part of making a game) But you take what you can get. If you dont like it just dont be part of this community.

-tkg

[GameGeisha]

I saw another topic about seeing the same kind of games being made over, over, and more damned over again. That one was about clones, people trying to make replicates of Pokemon, Zelda, and Metroid endlessly. And my response is similar to this:

Start with yourself. If you're just going to complain all day and nag someone else to accomplish your visions, you're doing no more than daydreaming. IT IS USELESS.

If you want more RTSs showing up in the GMC, kick start an RTS project yourself and take off from there. The card game genre had a little spike when I publicized my Dexterity TCG project a few months ago, when some newbies looked at my game and decided to follow in the same path. Same with the turn-based genre when DFortun81 released his FFT example. You may be surprised at how much impact one small but inordinary project can make. As the poster in my math classroom always said, "Improvement starts with I." If you don't start, others don't follow suit.

[greatchase]

Woah. Guess there are very opiniated people in the forumes besides me

@ Takagi: Okay, sry. You're right. That was going a little over board. I have removed step 1 Also, that game Medieval Clash, was the game I was talking about besides my side scrolling RTS game. And that purper game isn't that great... I am saying, as you kind of infered, there are few RTS games out there.

@ Everyone else: I DO try to lead by example. I have never myself made a clone game, and always tryed to do something outside of the box. Heck, I've made prbly some of the stupidist games on the GMC, BUT at least alot of people have had fun doing somthing besides guiding a badly programed Link around a horribly constructed world.

Edited by greatchase, 26 November 2006 - 05:58 PM.

[Splinter]

Doom The battle for mars, by DoomHacker
and Dark Hive, By Arkano...

There you go.

RTS games are insanely complicated, you say you don't have abig enough attention span to work on a game fo 2-4 years, well look @ dark hive! Two Years!!! Quit yer' whining.

[Zarthas]

Its true mate, they're few and far between, though you should've seen more than just three...

They are rather difficult to make, for me its Design issues rather than actual programming. There's so many places you can go wrong. While its not too difficult to get the systems in, its really hard to actually finish the damn things. There's always the question of how much more?

My WIP RTS Frontier Wars should still be around here somewhere. The Civil War is a great one, as is Battle For Mars(hey dude above said that too), and that space one....you know...the one that actually got finished...can't remember it's name.


Not to mention, some people just don't enjoy RTS games. Some people prefer less engaging fare, just to kill some time on a rainy day.

[greatchase]

@ Zarthas: Well put, I know that some people don't like RTS Games, I am just saying... certainly more than 10%...

@ The_Cut_Edge: Um... I think I should thank you... YES!.... that's it... and i wasn't whining

[BlackMita]

Why Don't We See Practically Any Rts Games!?!?

Because arrays are ****ing annoying.

[Takagi: No, they're actually really easy.]

Not if you function on design intuition, as opposed to hard logic sense.

I think much of the problem, with this forums general age group (excluding rare exceptions, or when a game is developed by a team) is this:

Those that are highly skilled programmers, or are super-ambitious, can jack out addictive games like there's no tomarrow, but the originality will generally stay within the mediocre range.

Those that have some really great ideas and can plan out a really original gameplay experience, work very slowly, or haven't the required quick logictic skills to actually finish a game - within the time limit of not getting bored and moving on.

Edited by BlackMita, 28 November 2006 - 10:15 PM.

[Harry]

I have been trying to make a RTS for 3 years now but keep giving up or loosing my work cos of my stupid hard drive or just getting bored. But now after a long 9m-1 year break I ready to finally make it. I have to admit it id very hard but Iam going to make it very small first to just get the 'engine' then I will make a very big one.

RTS's take a long time to make and to make a good one it is VERY complicated.

[TeeGee]

Well - classical RTS are really not best genre for indie games (and GM-made games usually fall into that category).
They are hard to make, need a lot of time and many resources (grahics!). Making the whole engine (not to mention maps) is very time consuming - too much for an average amateur to handle.

And after the engine is finished... here comes the AI. Even big companies like Blizzard have problems with making the AI pose a minimal threat to the player. And they consist of dozens of top-skill coders and designers. One person has no chance for succes in that.

And even let's imagine that someone made great AI. Still RTS isn't good without a multiplayer (preferably with online ranking too). People playing RTS games could actually pass as a subculture and they won't even look at the game if it has no multiplayer.

The thing with small indie games is that they usually fill the gap that big, commercial titles are leaving opened. And there is no gap in RTS genre - even best GM-made game will be just a worse version of a commercial game. Even Dark Hive - it's brilliant but why would I play it instead of my copy of Warcraft3? Same goes for other genres dominated by commercial games - like FPSs. There are no GM FPSs better than commercial ones, but for example - there are no commercial TDSs aswell - they are domain of indie games.

If you want to see some real-time strategies on GMC, then you'll have to think outside the box yourself. There are some games here that offer strategic gameplay in real-time (like Medvieval Clash that you refused) - they are just not cookie-cutter RTSs.
Heck - even my Magi is a real time strategy - and it is quite original.

You just have to look for the original games, not copies of the big commercial titles.

Edited by TeeGee, 28 November 2006 - 12:06 AM.

[greatchase]

yea, teegee.... I guess so

also, harry... when you finish that engine, could I have a look at it? I won't steal it or anything, i promise. I just need to look at a basic engine instead of looking at completed RTS Projects. (In case you couldn't tell, I'm trying to make my own RTS )

[irregular]

RTS's are good and all. I started making one a while back, but due to a lack of graphical input from the community, i gave up on it.... NOW ITS RACING GAME TIME!!!!

[Harry]

yea, teegee.... I guess so

also, harry... when you finish that engine, could I have a look at it? I won't steal it or anything, i promise. I just need to look at a basic engine instead of looking at completed RTS Projects. (In case you couldn't tell, I'm trying to make my own RTS )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeh sure, its about 20% completed atm. I working very hard on it so should be completed soon. But boy is it hard! lol!

[havoc]

I was going to make an RTS but i don't see a way round creating 1000's of objects, every 'tank' for example has it's own little collision checking, enemy checking and firing. Imagine thousands of them ! GM can't handle it. Unless your smart and make it look like there are individual units, using an array, by drawing each one using 1 object.

[Self_titled]

I started makin a creature game where u could breed your creatures and have your creatures build habitats for themselves, they had to disspose of waste could get pregnant had to hunt for food and there where enemies which brings me to why i diddnt finish it

the ai part of the game had me stumped. which may be a reason why many arnt finished

theres a good rts called sapce time stratedgy on the gmc atm